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braindead 08-14-2005 01:02 PM

sullivan
 
I heard from a semi-official source that they are having trouble signing Sullivan because he "wants Kariya type money now". I don't want to put too much stock into the comment. I know the Preds love him but I've never had the sense that he was dying to be a Pred long term. Soooo....what are the chances they try to trade him if they can't work out a deal? I can't imagine the Preds like that scenario but swapping him for a similarly priced center could work out in the long run. In the alternative, what are the odds he is a hold out?

handtrick 08-14-2005 01:44 PM

Think about it behind the scenes here.....Do you think all the talk of Sully playing center may have some effect on the negotiations between Sully and Poile?

Think about it...if Sully plays center...potentially his goal scoring may go down...although you would think total point production may stay constant. If Sully is coming up on a UFA market year next year...would a decrease goal production in 2005/6 tend to lessen his leverage in dollar pay out?
Is Poile dangling a longer term contract at a decent [although not spectacular] amount, such as 3.0-3.2 per year for 2-3 years in hopes that he will bite and not take the chance of a lower production year at his secondary position of center [especially on the 2nd line] right before a UFA year, which the Preds may have to have him spend alot of time at.

I guess on the other hand, you could argue that if he has a decent year at center his UFA value may be enhanced because he has shown the versatility of playing both wing and center in a quality manner....

No doubt Sully is using Kariya money as a negotiating tool. I can't see Poile giving him more than a 3.0 mill, 3.25 mill, 3.5mill or roughly 10 mill over 3 years.
Yea we could trade him for a good center, but with him one year away from UFA, we could only probably get a similair circumstance coming back our way......

My gut says he takes his QO and goes UFA next year....I have the feeling he is not enamoured with Nashville long term either.....

triggrman 08-14-2005 02:01 PM

Why would he not be enamoured with Nashville long term? He talked last year at the end of the season on how much he liked it here. He's played his best stretch of hockey with us as well.

I'd bet he'll get close to his pre lock-out offer of 3.8M for a couple of years, IMHO, it's worth it.

He won't get Kariya money but he's never produced as much as Kariya either. Remeber Kariya is one season removed from an 81 pt season.

barrytrotzsneck 08-14-2005 02:08 PM

I've heard so much garbage from people in regard to Sullivan...most of it from people with "inside sources" that I really don't believe anything. I've heard that he wasn't going to be qualified, that he was going to be traded on draft day...and on and on. It's silly to get worked up about it, and I seriously doubt he's foolish enough to ask for Kariya money, because he knows he's not on Kariya's level.

handtrick 08-14-2005 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
Why would he not be enamoured with Nashville long term? He talked last year at the end of the season on how much he liked it here.

I have not read anything in print quoting his love of Nashville or thinking this is a perfect fit for him.....just silence. He hasn't bad mouthed it, but he hasn't been singing its praises the way Kariya has. There is no plans for "The Steve Sullivan Show" on any radio stations to my knowledge....on the other hand, I bet Kariya will have one.

Sullivan was traded here, apparently without any discussion by Chicago and caught him out of the blue he said. He had no input in the matter. On the other hand, Kariya chose to go here with many different suitors making offers.

Granted, I have not been able to hear any interviews with Sully on the radio....just because I live out of the area.....if you could remember some quotes.....it may make me feel alot better.... :)

Adz 08-14-2005 02:14 PM

I wondered what sort of backlash would come from Leipold saying that we'd match what others offered.

barrytrotzsneck 08-14-2005 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick
I have not read anything in print quoting his love of Nashville or thinking this is a perfect fit for him.....just silence. He hasn't bad mouthed it, but he hasn't been singing its praises the way Kariya has. There is no plans for "The Steve Sullivan Show" on any radio stations to my knowledge....on the other hand, I bet Kariya will have one.

Sullivan was traded here, apparently without any discussion by Chicago and caught him out of the blue he said. He had no input in the matter. On the other hand, Kariya chose to go here with many different suitors making offers.

Granted, I have not been able to hear any interviews with Sully on the radio....just because I live out of the area.....if you could remember some quotes.....it may make me feel alot better.... :)


At the end of 03\04, Sully and his agent said, "This is where we want to be, we want to get the deal done"

He actually said quite a bit about wanting to stay here, since you mention it :propeller

handtrick 08-14-2005 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
At the end of 03\04, Sully and his agent said, "This is where we want to be, we want to get the deal done"

He actually said quite a bit about wanting to stay here, since you mention it :propeller


Is that all the goods you got?.......C'mon man, I need more than that.....I'll gladly edit my above post to a propeller if there are some more quotes out there....

barrytrotzsneck 08-14-2005 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick
Is that all the goods you got?.......C'mon man, I need more than that.....I'll gladly edit my above post to a propeller if there are some more quotes out there....


It's too late. You've been "pwned"

handtrick 08-14-2005 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
It's too late. You've been "pwned"

Who runs the pwning grievance board around here....I want to file a complaint...

triggrman 08-14-2005 05:45 PM

They had him on the radio talking about how he and Walker seemed to click quite well, and how nice it was to play in games that mean something, it said the people here have all welcomed him and made him feel at home. It's about all I remember now, it has been awhile you know..

handtrick 08-14-2005 06:13 PM

C'mon guys.....is that all there is?

How about, did you hear him say.....

Did you feel the excitement at the GEC during the playoffs.....
I love the way this team plays.....
I like how mangagement has built this team...
I like the grit....
I love the locker room atmosphere.....
I like the young talent....
The city is great......
I could see the Preds making a run deep into the Playoffs.....


Or even......

I love Sweet Tea.....
Awesome Barbeque....
Country Music is growing on me....
Gotta love free grits with every breakfast....
Tootsie's is awesome....
No traffic....how nice....
No state income tax.....awesome....
I could get used to the weather.....
People are so friendly......
Great place to raise a family.....
The Grand Ole Opry is...uhhhh....famous......
You sure can get alot of house for the money.........
Country chicks are hot.......

Man.....if that's all you guys got.....I'm gonna go get a scotch........

triggrman 08-14-2005 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick
C'mon guys.....is that all there is?

How about, did you hear him say.....

Did you feel the excitement at the GEC during the playoffs.....
I love the way this team plays.....
I like how mangagement has built this team...
I like the grit....
I love the locker room atmosphere.....
I like the young talent....
The city is great......
I could see the Preds making a run deep into the Playoffs.....


Or even......

I love Sweet Tea.....
Awesome Barbeque....
Country Music is growing on me....
Gotta love free grits with every breakfast....
Tootsie's is awesome....
No traffic....how nice....
No state income tax.....awesome....
I could get used to the weather.....
People are so friendly......
Great place to raise a family.....
The Grand Ole Opry is...uhhhh....famous......
You sure can get alot of house for the money.........
Country chicks are hot.......

Man.....if that's all you guys got.....I'm gonna go get a scotch........

So tell me. Have you ever heard any of our guys say this, other than Johnson?

nashtrash25 08-14-2005 08:23 PM

[QUOTE=handtrick]There is no plans for "The Steve Sullivan Show" on any radio stations to my knowledge....on the other hand, I bet Kariya will have one.
QUOTE]

Now that would be worth listening to. The Paul Kariya show.

PLASTER: Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Paul Kariya show. How are you Paul?

KARIYA: Fine.

PLASTER: That's good. So tell me Paul, how do you like Nashville?

KARIYA: It's great.

PLASTER: Now that's personality plus right there!

Yeah, I somehow don't see a Paul Kariya show anytime in the near future. Nice guy, but Mr. Personality he ain't.

nashtrash25 08-14-2005 08:28 PM

The suggestion that Sullivan would hold out is unbelievably stupid.

After a year-long lockout and a sound defeat at the bargaining table, I'm not sure any player would be dumb enough to hold out.

I mean, come on, it's Steve Sullivan. His best season was 34 goals, 71 points in 2000-2001. He's not one of the league's 40 best players. I am sure he and his agent are trying to get the best deal possible, but I am also sure he will sign before training camp.

Original6 08-14-2005 08:31 PM

You guys got to keep sullivan because he has turned out to be a diamond in the rough.

handtrick 08-14-2005 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
So tell me. Have you ever heard any of our guys say this, other than Johnson?


Unfortunately we don't have a sizeable track record of big time players coming to this franchise while in their prime.

It just seems to me that Kariya has made much more of an effort to speak of the positives of coming to Nashville in 2 days than Sullivan has in 18 months.
Some Kariya quotes:

"I think it's a great young hockey club that's only going to get better."

"I'm really excited about the speed and the goaltending."

"They have great goaltending, great work ethic, and if they lacked anything, it was some scoring punch up front." "I looked at that as a big role I could fill, and I was really excited to come here and do that."

"This is a place where you can win."

"I was really impressed playing against them, and also watching them during the playoffs."

"I think they have one of the hardest working teams in the league."

"Only a few teams have the resources to win a Stanley Cup.” “And I think Nashville has now proven that they’re ready to do that.”

"I told my agent that I felt in my heart Nashville was the place to be. I can’t wait for training camp to start.”

"I think it is a terrific hockey market.” “Anytime I played in Nashville in the past the atmosphere around the ring was electric. When that rink is full it an upsetting place for visiting teams to play."



Vokoun said after the addition of Kariya:

"We have as good a chance as everybody, and I really believe that ... This team can go all the way.''

Vokoun on the Predators Hockey Digest Sept/Oct 2004:

"We have a young team with a lot of really good players and high draft picks," he says. "We're going to be just like Ottawa and those teams. If they can keep the team together three or four years from now, we may be one of the top teams."


Scottie Upshall commenting on the Preds exhibition game against Columbus sept 2002 City Paper:

“There are a lot of young, great hockey players in this room. We all may not get the chance to play here this year, but the scouts and the front office have worked hard to make this team a Stanley Cup contender one day.”

Adam Hall same paper article as above:

“We get along real well and have a great chemistry.”

I found alot of Johnson quotes, but you didn't want those........


Steve Sullivan comments I could find:








_

SmokeyClause 08-14-2005 09:12 PM

Why does Sullivan speak out on behalf of Nashville? How many players do this period? I think your concerns regarding Sullivan are similar to that of Dave Chappelle in his R. Kelly trial skit, "I'll believe it's R. Kelly if...". Just a tad unreasonable. Following that logic train only a week or two ago: There's no way in hell Hartnell is going to re-sign with the Preds at or near his QO. He doesn't like Nashville because he hasn't commented that much on the greatness of the city and the franchise. I bet he'll ask for Havlat level money so that he'll get moved. That's what I heard from this guy I know who used to work for the Preds and is Garrioch's cousin and is married to Brooks nephew.

Since when is quotes the definitive factor here? I'd say a Steve Sullivan comment saying he loves Nashville holds no more weight than silence. He could have easily been prompted into that comment. The question is, "do you really like Nashville, Steve?" and He says, "I love Nashville. The fans are great and the team is built for the future." And this is supposed to be the support you need? You ask any and every Pred, regardless of their relationship with Nashville, and that's what you are going to hear. Insert any other team name instead of Nashville and you'll get similar comments.

I fail to see how comments would actually be something to hang your hat on. I'd use comments from Trotz and Poile as key indicators. Neither have any reason to mislead Nashville of their true intentions, nor has either ever shown to have done that. While player X will gladly say how much he loves the city regardless of his true feelings, Trotz isn't going to be spouting off on how he's going to use Sullivan to solve the center problem unless he's going to do it. If he truly felt Sullivan wasn't going to be a Pred, he would approach the situation different and certainly wouldn't name drop Sullivan all accross the papers. Ditto with Poile. Instead, they'd probably throw out a noncomittal statement about how they might use Sullivan at center, but would prefer to have that situation solved by someone else. Or does this logic only make sense to me?

Pred303 08-14-2005 09:17 PM

my theory is that sullivan has trouble with the local language,being canadian and all, and this language barrier has prevented notable quotes of how much he loves it here..give him another year or two to pick up the local dialect and we won't be able to shut him up,pretty soon he'll be just like hartnell,showing up in Tootsies after every game

handtrick 08-14-2005 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Why does Sullivan speak out on behalf of Nashville? How many players do this period? I think your concerns regarding Sullivan are similar to that of Dave Chappelle in his R. Kelly trial skit, "I'll believe it's R. Kelly if...". Just a tad unreasonable. Following that logic train only a week or two ago: There's no way in hell Hartnell is going to re-sign with the Preds at or near his QO. He doesn't like Nashville because he hasn't commented that much on the greatness of the city and the franchise. I bet he'll ask for Havlat level money so that he'll get moved. That's what I heard from this guy I know who used to work for the Preds and is Garrioch's cousin and is married to Brooks nephew.

Since when is quotes the definitive factor here? I'd say a Steve Sullivan comment saying he loves Nashville holds no more weight than silence. He could have easily been prompted into that comment. The question is, "do you really like Nashville, Steve?" and He says, "I love Nashville. The fans are great and the team is built for the future." And this is supposed to be the support you need? You ask any and every Pred, regardless of their relationship with Nashville, and that's what you are going to hear. Insert any other team name instead of Nashville and you'll get similar comments.

I fail to see how comments would actually be something to hang your hat on. I'd use comments from Trotz and Poile as key indicators. Neither have any reason to mislead Nashville of their true intentions, nor has either ever shown to have done that. While player X will gladly say how much he loves the city regardless of his true feelings, Trotz isn't going to be spouting off on how he's going to use Sullivan to solve the center problem unless he's going to do it. If he truly felt Sullivan wasn't going to be a Pred, he would approach the situation different and certainly wouldn't name drop Sullivan all accross the papers. Ditto with Poile. Instead, they'd probably throw out a noncomittal statement about how they might use Sullivan at center, but would prefer to have that situation solved by someone else. Or does this logic only make sense to me?

All very reasonable points Smokey.

I guess I would just like to see Sully do something similair to Johnson...coming out while he was a UFA saying how much he would like to reach a long term deal with the Preds because of x, y, and z. That would at least show an interest to a commitment to this city and franchise.

Hell, I heard Hartnell was marrying a local girl....if true, that is a pretty good comment on the city.

What are your thoughts about whether Sully signs a long term contract or elects to sign a one year and then go UFA.....as that is the real question here.....

sparkle twin 08-15-2005 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick
Hell, I heard Hartnell was marrying a local girl....if true, that is a pretty good comment on the city.

She's technically not a local girl, she just went to college here, so that doesn't really tell you much. ;)



Paul Kariya had a press conference to announce his signing with Nashville. He was asked over and over by media/fans from here to Canada, "Why Nashville?" and he had to give answers. Sully never had a press conference to announce he was traded here, he was just told in Chicago he was traded. What was he going to do, hold a PC just to announce how much he loves it here? I don't expect players to just gush about the city or their feelings towards it.

Sullivan knows what kind of impact he had with the team, and the team knows it as well. Personally, I don't see why they can't just extend the contract he signed before the lockout but whatever.

Leipold said all our players will be signed. They will sign him when they sign him. I don't think it's something to get worked up over.

handtrick 08-15-2005 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spank303
Leipold said all our players will be signed. They will sign him when they sign him. I don't think it's something to get worked up over.

The issue is not whether he will sign......he will.....or when he will sign......the issue is whether he signs a long term contract or signs a one year contract so that he can go UFA next year...

barrytrotzsneck 08-15-2005 12:02 PM

Honestly, HT...not to join the witch hunt here...but it's a pretty weak argument. "Sully doesn't care about this team because he doesn't talk about it to the media."

Are you getting ready for the day Scott Walker bolts to be UFA, because he made comments that indirectly suggested Nashville wasn't a good hockey market, during the lockout? That one might hold a little more water than this Sullivan thing.

handtrick 08-15-2005 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
Honestly, HT...not to join the witch hunt here...but it's a pretty weak argument. "Sully doesn't care about this team because he doesn't talk about it to the media."

Are you getting ready for the day Scott Walker bolts to be UFA, because he made comments that indirectly suggested Nashville wasn't a good hockey market, during the lockout? That one might hold a little more water than this Sullivan thing.

With my last words as I burn at the stake.....I hope he signs a long term contract...if he doesn't, then we can all speculate why he didn't.....

triggrman 08-15-2005 01:12 PM

Old Hickory....


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