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Mess 10-02-2003 06:40 PM

Philly Thinking Different than TO....
 
Check this out..

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...pitkanen_x.htm

ArtVandelei 10-02-2003 09:47 PM

Dudley's an idiot. How I wish we had a real gm at the time. Maybe we could have got Pitkanen.

Anyway...there's a 4 year age difference between Jim and Carlo/Max. And there's quite a bit of a difference in potential between Pitkanen and Carlo/Max. So I don't think it has anything to do with Philly thinking differently, as much as it does with them having more ready assets.

wasting time 10-03-2003 02:54 AM

In Hitchcok's system the defenseman is not going to be as exposed as in a forecheck system like Quinn's. Also, the D men are not under so much pressure to lug the puck up to the forward versus Quinn's flow and puck possession system.

Plus, Pitkannen is a much better defenseman than is anyone of Carlo, Kondriatev or Hedin.

Plus, the other core 5 in Philly are better than the other 5 from Toronto.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

Joey24 10-03-2003 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasting time
In Hitchcok's system the defenseman is not going to be as exposed as in a forecheck system like Quinn's. Also, the D men are not under so much pressure to lug the puck up to the forward versus Quinn's flow and puck possession system.

Plus, Pitkannen is a much better defenseman than is anyone of Carlo, Kondriatev or Hedin.

Plus, the other core 5 in Philly are better than the other 5 from Toronto.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

Took the words straight from my mouth.. Bravo... :bow:

Leaf Army 10-03-2003 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtVandelei
Dudley's an idiot. How I wish we had a real gm at the time. Maybe we could have got Pitkanen.

Dudley's made some questionable moves in his time, but Dudley had already left Tampa by then. Jay Feaster made this deal.

Funny the article compares Pitkanen to Swedish stars Salming and Lidstrom. Someone should tell the writer that Pitkanen's Finnish.

The article also says that Pitkanen has experience in the Swedish Elite League, but he actually played for Karpat in the Finnish Elite League.

Volcanologist 10-03-2003 04:52 AM

Quote:

Vandermeer, 23, has a classic Flyers trait unpleasantness.
Heh. I think that's more of an overall Philly trait.

It takes Phillyfan to mock a player over the death of his baby son (like bitter Igglefan did to Joe Jurevicious the other week).

Dar 10-03-2003 04:56 AM

Oh, oh! The article mentioned Kaberle's name ! :eek:

Stephen 10-03-2003 06:25 AM

Philly does things differently from everybody.

Yeah the Pitkanen trade/pick was an amazing steal, but Booby probably traded that team out of a chance to win the cup back in the late '90's. For every good trade he makes, there is always a bad one of equal magnitude to counter balance it.

Volcanologist 10-03-2003 06:33 AM

For example, passing on Cujo to sign the Beezer. Nice move Clarky.

wasting time 10-03-2003 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
For example, passing on Cujo to sign the Beezer. Nice move Clarky.

Or Czechmanek for Belfour, or Hackett and not Burke, or Cujo.

He's nuts.

Mess 10-03-2003 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasting time
In Hitchcok's system the defenseman is not going to be as exposed as in a forecheck system like Quinn's. Also, the D men are not under so much pressure to lug the puck up to the forward versus Quinn's flow and puck possession system.

Plus, Pitkannen is a much better defenseman than is anyone of Carlo, Kondriatev or Hedin.

Plus, the other core 5 in Philly are better than the other 5 from Toronto.

Move along. Nothing to see here.


All True... Yet

Does your points not possibly tell us something as well..

The Question is WHY???

Is Philly's System better??? In Toronto if Hitchcock where coach and they played his style...wouldn't Toronto be a more serious Contender??

Could Leafs just as easily have had Pitkanen...Was Quinn asleep on that one??

If Philly 5 core are better..and we Know it than Why didn't Quinn improve his 5 rather than stand Pat and loose the Wesleys and Svehla's that made it better ...

Although I don't exactly agree here..

Kim Johnsson(39 points),Eric Desjardins, Eric Weinrich, Marcus Ragnarsson, Chris Therien (Waivers)

really much different than.......

Tomas Kaberle (49 points), Brian McCabe, Ken Klee, Bryan Marchment & Aki Berg ???

wasting time 10-03-2003 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
All True... Yet

Does your points not possibly tell us something as well..

The Question is WHY???

Is Philly's System better??? In Toronto if Hitchcock where coach and they played his style...wouldn't Toronto be a more serious Contender??

Could Leafs just as easily have had Pitkanen...Was Quinn asleep on that one??

If Philly 5 core are better..and we Know it than Why didn't Quinn improve his 5 rather than stand Pat and loose the Wesleys and Svehla's that made it better ...

Although I don't exactly agree here..

Kim Johnsson(39 points),Eric Desjardins, Eric Weinrich, Marcus Ragnarsson, Chris Therien (Waivers)

really much different than.......

Tomas Kaberle (49 points), Brian McCabe, Ken Klee, Bryan Marchment & Aki Berg ???

Pikanen was picked long before TO had a pick.

Philly's defense is much better because of their system, but even under Barber they gave up only a fraction of the number of goals Toronto did. They are big, stay at home, and individually may not seem better but as a team, are better - which brings up a Quinn/Ley issue if you ask me.

Should Toronto/Quinn have used a trap team? No. They were under Murphy and then Quinn unleashed them to success.

That was good for that team, but the system he uses will not win in Cup under todays rules.

Again - questions about Quinn and his stubbornness about taking the "high" road. and not employing the trap.

Bottomline - I think Quinn is a good, very good game day coach and leader. He has a few few weaknesses, and those weaknesses are enough to prevent the Leafs from winning the Cup.

However, I think Quinn is better than most of the other NHL coaches.

Stephen 10-03-2003 08:53 PM

"Pikanen was picked long before TO had a pick."

I think the point about that is the fact that Philly had to trade for the fourth overall pick, and the Leafs could have done the same because Philly didn't give up too much.

Mess 10-03-2003 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen
"Pikanen was picked long before TO had a pick."

I think the point about that is the fact that Philly had to trade for the fourth overall pick, and the Leafs could have done the same because Philly didn't give up too much.

Thanks Stephen

That was exactly the point, and I can't believe that you and I had to explain it further, I thought it was self explanatory, yet some still fail to understand...

or are they just WASTING TIME..

NoamHemsky 10-04-2003 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Thanks Stephen

That was exactly the point, and I can't believe that you and I had to explain it further, I thought it was self explanatory, yet some still fail to understand...

or are they just WASTING TIME..

You could make that same point about every team. Clarke made the deal, he had a glut of excess draft picks and Fedetenko who obviously very much interested Feaster.

Really, the only team that looks foolish is Tampa for letting a potential franchise player (a defenseman no less) slip through their grasp.

Philly made a nice deal. I don't understand why we keep re-hashing the past. Who gives a crap?

p.l.f. 10-04-2003 07:30 AM

the flyers blueline isnt so hot

desjardin's slowing down.
weinrich is going on 37
johnsson isnt exactly a complete player
therien they're trying to dump

that was their starting 4.

sounds alot like ours :joker:

ragnarsson is.....ragnarsson

pitkanen and vandermeer will need time you'd think,
and by that time johnsson might be the only one left of the 'starting 4'

Epoch 10-04-2003 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p.l.f.
the flyers blueline isnt so hot

desjardin's slowing down.
weinrich is going on 37
johnsson isnt exactly a complete player
therien they're trying to dump

that was their starting 4.

sounds alot like ours :joker:

ragnarsson is.....ragnarsson

pitkanen and vandermeer will need time you'd think,
and by that time johnsson might be the only one left of the 'starting 4'

I think Pitkanen has already made the team...http://hfboards.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Mess 10-04-2003 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p.l.f.
the flyers blueline isnt so hot

desjardin's slowing down.
weinrich is going on 37
johnsson isnt exactly a complete player
therien they're trying to dump

that was their starting 4.

sounds alot like ours :joker:

ragnarsson is.....ragnarsson

pitkanen and vandermeer will need time you'd think,
and by that time johnsson might be the only one left of the 'starting 4'

That's Right p.I.f..

I just don't see what the big difference is even in Leafs current Defense and Philly's and they are making room for youngsters in the Line-up this year and sure Pitkanen is an exceptional young player...but Vandermeer and Woywitka and Seidenberg are all going to get to play some this year according to Hitchcock, while Quinn old school .."I am going to play my Vets" speech is getting old..

The Travis Green and hopefully future Fergy moves is going to make Quinn see the other side..

monkey_00* 10-04-2003 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
That's Right p.I.f..

I just don't see what the big difference is even in Leafs current Defense and Philly's and they are making room for youngsters in the Line-up this year and sure Pitkanen is an exceptional young player...but Vandermeer and Woywitka and Seidenberg are all going to get to play some this year according to Hitchcock, while Quinn old school .."I am going to play my Vets" speech is getting old..

The Travis Green and hopefully future Fergy moves is going to make Quinn see the other side..

There really isnt much difference at all when you compare each team's defence..........so now the next thing you start comparing is the General managers.........On one hand you have Bobby Clarke in Philly who doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing.....and on the other hand you have the Toronto Maple Leafs who don't have a clue as to what they're doing by hiring an INEXPERIENCED person to be the team's GM in John Ferguson jr........so even with the GM positions of both club's here there really isn't much difference in this department either between the two.

p.l.f. 10-04-2003 02:10 PM

hitchcock's system makes philly's blueline 'look' good
their young d's may very well make it now, but will likely need a few yrs to become part of the starting 4


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