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-   -   well *that* didnt solve anything (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=16446)

jadeddog 10-02-2003 07:49 PM

well *that* didnt solve anything
 
hmm interesting how a game where you score 7 goals can be a bad thing.... i say this in respect to the decisions that macT has to make now

you pretty much have to keep torres now. sarno looked good on the PP (from his stats anyhow). the only ones that didnt really do anything was salm. and rita. chimera gets 3rd star and makes a good push to be a 2nd liner (but he wont be i dont think)... not much solved here i dont think because of the blowout, EVERYBODY looked good, lol

well here is my 4 lines as of this game:

smyth-york-hemsky
isbister-horcoff-dvorak
moreau-reasoner-chimera (with pisani drawing in sometimes on RW)
torres-stoll-laraque

rita will be the other body to stay up me thinks, or possibly salm. whats everybodys take on this?

s7ark 10-02-2003 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog
hmm interesting how a game where you score 7 goals can be a bad thing.... i say this in respect to the decisions that macT has to make now

you pretty much have to keep torres now. sarno looked good on the PP (from his stats anyhow). the only ones that didnt really do anything was salm. and rita. chimera gets 3rd star and makes a good push to be a 2nd liner (but he wont be i dont think)... not much solved here i dont think because of the blowout, EVERYBODY looked good, lol

well here is my 4 lines as of this game:

smyth-york-hemsky
isbister-horcoff-dvorak
moreau-reasoner-chimera (with pisani drawing in sometimes on RW)
torres-stoll-laraque

rita will be the other body to stay up me thinks, or possibly salm. whats everybodys take on this?


Gotta disagree - I think Stoll can still benefit from 1 more year in the AHL wheras Sarno is ready now and won't improve in TO

VayaConDios 10-02-2003 07:55 PM

IMO the next cuts should be Valiquette, Salmelainen, Luoma, Stoll, Wright, and Allen.

jadeddog 10-02-2003 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7ark
Gotta disagree - I think Stoll can still benefit from 1 more year in the AHL wheras Sarno is ready now and won't improve in TO

yeah but where do you play sarno? the 4th line? i think not

VayaConDios 10-02-2003 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog
yeah but where do you play sarno? the 4th line? i think not

Torres-Sarno-Laraque. Sounds good to me, Sarno will also help our pp this year a quite deal if you base it on how he played tonight. Stoll will develope more playing 1st line minutes in TO.

TheBrew 10-02-2003 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoalieDude
IMO the next cuts should be Valiquette, Salmelainen, Luoma, Stoll, Wright, and Allen.

Ya that sounds about right

jadeddog 10-02-2003 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoalieDude
Torres-Sarno-Laraque. Sounds good to me, Sarno will also help our pp this year a quite deal if you base it on how he played tonight. Stoll will develope more playing 1st line minutes in TO.

but isnt sarno not exactly known for his stellar defensive play? i would rather see a defensive centerman in the 4th line spot. i do agree that stoll playing more minutes in TO would be good for him, but i dont know how much better it would be than 8-10 mins a game in the big show.

this is just my opinion..... but i think that players always have a year of "adjusting" to the NHL... i think might as well get that over with while they are on the 4th line and not much is expected of them, rather than them benig superstars in the AHL for another season

TheBrew 10-02-2003 08:11 PM

I think Stoll will start in the Ahl maybe getting the call up for 25 games or so. :dunno:

momentai 10-02-2003 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog
but isnt sarno not exactly known for his stellar defensive play? i would rather see a defensive centerman in the 4th line spot. i do agree that stoll playing more minutes in TO would be good for him, but i dont know how much better it would be than 8-10 mins a game in the big show.

Sarno is not known for his defensive play. But at least during the interviews after the game, he knows this is something he definitely wants to work on if he's going to be a fourth line center. Sarno played a big role in the Oilers scoring on the powerplay this game.

I think Stoll would do much better in the AHL. Around 18-20 minutes a night as the first line center which would allow Stoll to work on his all around offensive game. Could do wonders...

IceDragoon 10-02-2003 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrew
I think Stoll will start in the Ahl maybe getting the call up for 25 games or so. :dunno:

I think he'll probably start in TO and finish here.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 10-02-2003 08:21 PM

I think it solved a couple things actually:

Peter Sarno should definately make this hockey team.

Mikko Luoma is not an NHL defenceman yet.

Jani Rita must be a magician, either that or just not playing good hockey, because, except for when he's messing up, he is INVISIBLE.

jadeddog 10-02-2003 08:25 PM

if you want to REALLY get things screwed up though..... imagine if comrie was there..... does that move horcoff to 4th line center?? too bad that situation isnt gonna happen, cause we move have FINALLY had the 2 scoring lines we have been after for what seems like forever

s7ark 10-02-2003 08:44 PM

Sarno has stepped up his defensive play and I think would add a scoring dimension we are going to need with Comrie gone. I like Stoll but him going back down at 20 won't hurt him.

Sarno was the missing piece in our PP tonight. I think MacT can get his defense to acceptable and the offensive skill he can bring will be most welcome with no comrie...

hockeyaddict101 10-02-2003 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog
but isnt sarno not exactly known for his stellar defensive play? i would rather see a defensive centerman in the 4th line spot. i do agree that stoll playing more minutes in TO would be good for him, but i dont know how much better it would be than 8-10 mins a game in the big show.

this is just my opinion..... but i think that players always have a year of "adjusting" to the NHL... i think might as well get that over with while they are on the 4th line and not much is expected of them, rather than them benig superstars in the AHL for another season

Stoll is the more complete player and that's why IMO he makes the team over Sarno.

s7ark 10-02-2003 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaz44
Stoll is the more complete player and that's why IMO he makes the team over Sarno.

But we have plenty of "complete" players. Reasoner, Horcoff, Pisani, Moreau. I would say the are all complete guys, I want offense. And as much as I like Stoll, he still needs to work on that part of his game. I see it coming, just isn't there yet.

I think we keep Sarno and let Stoll try out a first line center job in TO to get everything together. He is close, really close, but I see 20 min a night in the AHL being better for him then 6-8 in the NHL...

Digger12 10-02-2003 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Peter Sarno should definately make this hockey team.

If he does (I'd say it's 60/40 in his favour right now), BAR NONE it's the pleasant surprise of the '03 camp. This was a guy that basically fell off the radar screen after some less than stellar camps.

Personally I'm happy either way, whether it's Stoll or Sarno that makes it. My heart wants Stoll to make it, but my head says Sarno up here with Stoll getting 20 minutes a night in Toronto is the right thing to do.

Cloned 10-02-2003 09:23 PM

Play Sarno like Ottawa played Spezza last year. I'm not saying Sarno is anywhere near as good as Spezza is, but the principle is the same. Until the guy begins to learn and perform defensively, keep his playing time towards offensive zone situations and power plays. Granted, that would mean someone would have to shoulder a bit more ice time to make up for it, but we all know our PP needs all the help it can get. And it looked potent tonight against Calgary, with Sarno there.

hockeyaddict101 10-02-2003 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7ark
But we have plenty of "complete" players. Reasoner, Horcoff, Pisani, Moreau. I would say the are all complete guys, I want offense. And as much as I like Stoll, he still needs to work on that part of his game. I see it coming, just isn't there yet.

I think we keep Sarno and let Stoll try out a first line center job in TO to get everything together. He is close, really close, but I see 20 min a night in the AHL being better for him then 6-8 in the NHL...

But I think we already have a powerplay QB in Bergeron. The battle is close but I give Stoll the slight edge over Sarno at this point. Though Sarno sure didn't hurt himself tonight but over the whole training camp I think Stoll has played better overall.

The one think that may weigh in Sarno's favour is the Oil may want to give Stoll more ice time than he can get here.

Stoll reminds me of MacT and considering he is our coach I am giving him the advantage. :D

Really this is a close battle and you have a legitimate point but I think Sarno has to work on a few things that Stoll already has mastered.

thome_26 10-02-2003 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7ark
But we have plenty of "complete" players. Reasoner, Horcoff, Pisani, Moreau. I would say the are all complete guys, I want offense. And as much as I like Stoll, he still needs to work on that part of his game. I see it coming, just isn't there yet.

I think we keep Sarno and let Stoll try out a first line center job in TO to get everything together. He is close, really close, but I see 20 min a night in the AHL being better for him then 6-8 in the NHL...

My thoughts exactly. Plus, Sarno easily has played himself onto the team IMO!

s7ark 10-02-2003 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaz44
But I think we already have a powerplay QB in Bergeron. The battle is close but I give Stoll the slight edge over Sarno at this point. Though Sarno sure didn't hurt himself tonight but over the whole training camp I think Stoll has played better overall.

The one think that may weigh in Sarno's favour is the Oil may want to give Stoll more ice time than he can get here.

Stoll reminds me of MacT and considering he is our coach I am giving him the advantage. :D

Really this is a close battle and you have a legitimate point but I think Sarno has to work on a few things that Stoll already has mastered.

OH you are absolutely right, but the reverse is true also... Sarno has the offensive prowess that Stoll jsut doesn't yet. I love Stoll and see him as a captain here eventually, but given what he can still glean from the AHL (leadership roll, more minutes, PP time) that he simply won't get up here. I see him finishing the season here, no doubt, but to start, especially since we are missing a 25+ goal scorer in Comrie, I think that Sarno is the best fit.
Now depending on what happens with Comrie, a few options present themselves. But for now, with our current lineup, I see goalscoring as a potential problem for us and Sarno is simply better at that right now then Stoll is.

hockeyaddict101 10-02-2003 09:33 PM

Yep
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Digger12
If he does (I'd say it's 60/40 in his favour right now), BAR NONE it's the pleasant surprise of the '03 camp. This was a guy that basically fell off the radar screen after some less than stellar camps.

Personally I'm happy either way, whether it's Stoll or Sarno that makes it. My heart wants Stoll to make it, but my head says Sarno up here with Stoll getting 20 minutes a night in Toronto is the right thing to do.

Yep I woudn't be upset either way, they both bring different things to the table IMO.

I was surprised when they signed Sarno because he was never really impressive but wow, obviously one of the more astute signings this year.

FacelessButcher 10-02-2003 09:46 PM

Ooohh its a tough decision I would not mind sending Stoll down for a little while if Sarno outperformed him but in doing so I would always have the intention of bringing Stoll back up. I see Stoll fitting in better with a line of Torres-Stoll-Laraque I am one of the first to say size is over-rated but for this particular 4th line I really think it does matter Stoll is just bigger than Sarno and see this line really putting a little wear and tear on the opposition and think Stoll can cover better defensively for Laraque and Torres when they go a little out of their way to lay the body.

P.S. I also see Stoll as the future team captain of the Oilers I think he will be in line to get it after Moreau leaves us/retires

Cerebral 10-02-2003 09:57 PM

After seeing the hilights for the game, I'd really like to see the following lines:
Isbister - Smyth - Dvorak
Chimera - York - Hemsky
Pisani - Reasoner - Moreau
Torres - Horcoff - Laraque
PB: Sarno, Wright
The problem is that Horcoff has played himself out of the fourth line center position.. would he be capable of playing the wing in the place of Pisani? I really liked the look of Chimera - York - Hemsky tonight and I am dying to see them in action again.. I think Chimera's size/speed would finally be utilized by the Oiler's organization with two great passers in Hemsky/York on his line. The line situation just gets even messier if Comrie decides to finally sign!

speeds 10-02-2003 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaz44
The one think that may weigh in Sarno's favour is the Oil may want to give Stoll more ice time than he can get here.


Really this is a close battle and you have a legitimate point but I think Sarno has to work on a few things that Stoll already has mastered.

I'd give the spot to Sarno, for 3 reasons:

(1) on the 4th line, either guy won't log many ES minutes, and when they do, it'll likely be against the 4th lines of other teams, Sarno can probably do OK defensively against those guys

(2) Sarno can add something to the PP that other guys can't, while Stoll's apparent special teams strength, the PK, can already be filled by the likes of Horcoff, Reasoner, Moreau, York, Dvorak, Pisani. I think that means you might get more minutes out of Sarno at this point from the 4th line C spot.

(3) If you have any kind of future NHL plans for Sarno it will be tough to send him down to HAM to play first line, and tell him to work on his defence to make the next step. Perhaps it would be better to let him learn that on the fly in the NHL ( I know, it's not a developmental league, but I mean more in practice against NHL calibre guys), while Stoll can concentrate a bit more on his offensive side down in TOR.

thome_26 10-02-2003 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerebral
After seeing the hilights for the game, I'd really like to see the following lines:
Isbister - Smyth - Dvorak
Chimera - York - Hemsky
Pisani - Reasoner - Moreau
Torres - Horcoff - Laraque
PB: Sarno, Wright
The problem is that Horcoff has played himself out of the fourth line center position.. would he be capable of playing the wing in the place of Pisani? I really liked the look of Chimera - York - Hemsky tonight and I am dying to see them in action again.. I think Chimera's size/speed would finally be utilized by the Oiler's organization with two great passers in Hemsky/York on his line. The line situation just gets even messier if Comrie decides to finally sign!

Well if Moreau was a RWer and Pisani was leaving the 3rd LW spot open then sure as Horcoff has played lots as a LWer. I do think, though, that one of Moreau or Horcoff would be capable of playing on the different wing.


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