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braino 10-02-2003 07:48 PM

what are the lines?
 
Who's playing with who?

Mr Brownstone 10-03-2003 03:07 PM

Well thus far braino my guess would be this:

Satan-Drury-Kotalik (interchange Satan and Kotalik possibly)
Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Pyatt-Connolly, Brown, Roy-Afinogenov
Boulton-Mair-Peters (possibly Gaustad or Botterill if Bolts cant go)

Defense

Kalinin-Zhitnik
Tallinder-McKee
Campbell-Delmore
Fitzpatrick-Patrick

Goaltenders
Biron
Noronen

If you want my guesses for PP, PK, reply with that.

lecherous 10-03-2003 03:36 PM

Has anyone ever thought about Dumont on the 3rd line instead of Max? JP isn't the definition of a "gritty winger" or anything even close to that, but every once in awhile he can throw his body around. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever seen Max throw a check or battle in the corners. Especially if Connolly ends up on the 3rd line, it could be a disaster if Max is there too.

Takeo 10-03-2003 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecherous
Has anyone ever thought about Dumont on the 3rd line instead of Max? JP isn't the definition of a "gritty winger" or anything even close to that, but every once in awhile he can throw his body around. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever seen Max throw a check or battle in the corners. Especially if Connolly ends up on the 3rd line, it could be a disaster if Max is there too.

I agree, and I've mentioned this before. Cu-Bro and Max aren't compatible on the same line. It's self-defeating as their strengths will negate. I'd much rather see Dumont on the third line as he is at least competent defensively and Max on the second. Of course, that breaks up the Hecht-Briere-Dumont "chemistry" but so be it. Actually, I'd like to see...

DRURY--BRIERE--SATAN
HECHT--CONNOLLY--AFINOGENOV
PYATT--ROY--DUMONT
PETERS--BROWN--MAIR

Takeo 10-03-2003 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecherous
Has anyone ever thought about Dumont on the 3rd line instead of Max? JP isn't the definition of a "gritty winger" or anything even close to that, but every once in awhile he can throw his body around. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever seen Max throw a check or battle in the corners. Especially if Connolly ends up on the 3rd line, it could be a disaster if Max is there too.

I agree, and I've mentioned this before. Cu-Bro and Max aren't compatible on the same line. It's self-defeating as their strengths negate. I'd much rather see Dumont on the third line who is at least competent defensively. Of course this would break up the Hecht-Briere-Dumont "chemistry" but so be it. Maybe...

DRURY--BRIERE--SATAN
HECHT--CONNOLLY--KOTALIK
PYATT--BROWN--DUMONT
PETERS--MAIR--AFINOGENOV

lecherous 10-03-2003 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeo21
I agree, and I've mentioned this before. Cu-Bro and Max aren't compatible on the same line. It's self-defeating as their strengths negate. I'd much rather see Dumont on the third line who is at least competent defensively. Of course this would break up the Hecht-Briere-Dumont "chemistry" but so be it. Maybe...

DRURY--BRIERE--SATAN
HECHT--CONNOLLY--KOTALIK
PYATT--BROWN--DUMONT
PETERS--MAIR--AFINOGENOV

I like it, except I'd rather see Max on the 2nd line instead of Connolly. I just don't think that Connolly is going to have this miraculous epiphany and suddenly realize his potential. If he can't get it after 4 seasons in the NHL, and is actually regressing, he's never going to get it, at least on this team. Everyone tries to bring up Bertuzzi, which isn't a valid argument. Everyone knows that power forwards take at least 4-5 years to develop...which Connolly isn't. But look at Brad Isbister. Very good parallel to Connolly, except Isbister can actually play the 3rd or 4th line while he waits to break through. Connolly's an all or nothing kind of player, and I'd have to assume that everyone in the originization is a bit fed up with him. I mean, you can never say who's going to break through and who's not. A good example of this is Craig Conroy. Never really got it together in St. Louis, but was a great fit for Calgary and practically tripled his point output. But the fact that Connolly has not changed his surroundings at all doesn't bode well for a rapid increase. In Buffalo, he's a 45-50 pt guy at best, who is a horrendous defensive liability and really has no other facet to his game than goals and assists. We need to make room for someone who's serious about playing the game, and can make a contribution to the team and not drag them down.

Takeo 10-03-2003 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecherous
I like it, except I'd rather see Max on the 2nd line instead of Connolly. I just don't think that Connolly is going to have this miraculous epiphany and suddenly realize his potential. If he can't get it after 4 seasons in the NHL, and is actually regressing, he's never going to get it, at least on this team. Everyone tries to bring up Bertuzzi, which isn't a valid argument. Everyone knows that power forwards take at least 4-5 years to develop...which Connolly isn't. But look at Brad Isbister. Very good parallel to Connolly, except Isbister can actually play the 3rd or 4th line while he waits to break through. Connolly's an all or nothing kind of player, and I'd have to assume that everyone in the originization is a bit fed up with him. I mean, you can never say who's going to break through and who's not. A good example of this is Craig Conroy. Never really got it together in St. Louis, but was a great fit for Calgary and practically tripled his point output. But the fact that Connolly has not changed his surroundings at all doesn't bode well for a rapid increase. In Buffalo, he's a 45-50 pt guy at best, who is a horrendous defensive liability and really has no other facet to his game than goals and assists. We need to make room for someone who's serious about playing the game, and can make a contribution to the team and not drag them down.

Well put. I'm very close to giving up on TC as well, but I think he's gonna get another shot this season...to increase his trade value if for nothing else. The only place where he can excel IMO is at #2 center. If we scratch him, my ideal lines would be...

KOTALIK--DRURY--SATAN
HECHT--BRIERE--AFINOGENOV
PYATT--ROY--DUMONT
PETERS--BROWN--MAIR

lecherous 10-03-2003 10:29 PM

Nice lines, but we can't pay Curtis 1.5 mil to play 6 minutes a game.

Someone needs to be traded for everyone to fit, and if Roy or Gaustad are coming up, then two people need to be moved. I'm still kind of torn on who the other guy to be moved after Connolly should be.

Anyways, with all this talk about signing Steve Thomas, where the hell would he even fit? We'd probably have to trade Afinogenov and bring Dumont back up to the 2nd line, then trade Connolly and let Roy and Gaustad play in Rochester this year...which I'm not very keen at all on trading Afinogenov yet. At least he has an excuse of injury for his mediocrity, and shows a little fire every once in awhile.

ajsonor 10-04-2003 05:51 AM

DRURY--BRIERE--SATAN
KOTALIK--CONNOLLY--AFINOGENOV
HECHT--BROWN--DUMONT
PETERS--MAIR--PYATT

Here's my shot. I think this could work, but only if the team rolled 4 lines. I think that Pyatt would get some time on the 2nd pp unit to make up for some lost opportunity. I don't like seeing him there, but the idea of messing around with lines seems to be centered around giving Tim and max a shot to put up 50 or more points each.

Mr Brownstone 10-04-2003 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajsonor
DRURY--BRIERE--SATAN
KOTALIK--CONNOLLY--AFINOGENOV
HECHT--BROWN--DUMONT
PETERS--MAIR--PYATT

Speed, speed, and more speed on that 2nd line. I just don't like the idea of two centermen on the first line. Plus this leaves Derek Roy out of the equation, who I think deserves to play. Any way you look at it, Connolly and/or Brown need to be dealt. To edit your lines slightly if I may, I think Pyatt does deserve more ice time and I agree with him on the 2nd PP, but I think PK isn't out of the question either. I would rather have Brown with Kotalik and Afinogenov because Kotalik has too good of a shot to be wasted on a line with 2 guys who play one-on-one hockey. The first line would be capable of 80-90 points from each guy I think, especially for Satan, he'd touch 100.

JOHNBOY 10-04-2003 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braino
Who's playing with who?

This is what i would make the lines if i were coach.

Kotalik,Drury,Satan
Hecht,Briere,Afinigenov
Pyatt,Connoley,Roy
Peters,Mair,Dumont

Zhitnik,Kalinin
Delmore,Mckee
Cambell,Tallinder/Patrick

Biron,Miller

(trade Brown,Norenen,Fitzpatrick for a top 4 D-man)

Buffaloed 10-04-2003 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecherous
Has anyone ever thought about Dumont on the 3rd line instead of Max? JP isn't the definition of a "gritty winger" or anything even close to that, but every once in awhile he can throw his body around. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever seen Max throw a check or battle in the corners. Especially if Connolly ends up on the 3rd line, it could be a disaster if Max is there too.

Ruff really likes the chemistry between Dumont and Briere. They were really productive together last season. I think the only way Dumont leaves that line is if he plays his way off of it. It's a similar situation to the Pyatt-Gratton-Satan line that finished so well in the 2001-02 season. We all know how long that lasted.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE 10-04-2003 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecherous
I like it, except I'd rather see Max on the 2nd line instead of Connolly. I just don't think that Connolly is going to have this miraculous epiphany and suddenly realize his potential. If he can't get it after 4 seasons in the NHL, and is actually regressing, he's never going to get it, at least on this team. Everyone tries to bring up Bertuzzi, which isn't a valid argument. Everyone knows that power forwards take at least 4-5 years to develop...which Connolly isn't. But look at Brad Isbister. Very good parallel to Connolly, except Isbister can actually play the 3rd or 4th line while he waits to break through. Connolly's an all or nothing kind of player, and I'd have to assume that everyone in the originization is a bit fed up with him. I mean, you can never say who's going to break through and who's not. A good example of this is Craig Conroy. Never really got it together in St. Louis, but was a great fit for Calgary and practically tripled his point output. But the fact that Connolly has not changed his surroundings at all doesn't bode well for a rapid increase. In Buffalo, he's a 45-50 pt guy at best, who is a horrendous defensive liability and really has no other facet to his game than goals and assists. We need to make room for someone who's serious about playing the game, and can make a contribution to the team and not drag them down.

Cam Neely didn't take 4-5 years to develop. Forsberg didn't. Lindros didn't. Owen Nolan didn't. So spare me the myth that power forwards take at least 4-5 years to develop. It is crap. There are plenty of non-power forwards who take forever to develop, including Steve Sullivan, Miro Satan and Markus Naslund.

Isbister is a terrible comparison to Connolly. Isbister's best year was his rookie year point wise. Connolly's was his 3rd year. Connolly was rushed to the NHL out of junior hockey. Isbister got to develop in juniors and the AHL. In fact, despite being drafted 4 years after Isbister, Connolly and Isbisters were both rookies in 1999.

If Connolly won't have his epiphany, what the hell makes you think Afinogenov will? The fact you like him as a player?

Connolly was decent as a PK last year. The Sabres PK was 5th in the NHL last year.

You don't give up a 22 year old for nothing. We will regret it.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE 10-04-2003 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
This is what i would make the lines if i were coach.

Kotalik,Drury,Satan
Hecht,Briere,Afinigenov
Pyatt,Connoley,Roy
Peters,Mair,Dumont

Zhitnik,Kalinin
Delmore,Mckee
Cambell,Tallinder/Patrick

Biron,Miller

(trade Brown,Norenen,Fitzpatrick for a top 4 D-man)

Coaches don't make trades.

JOHNBOY 10-04-2003 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Coaches don't make trades.

I know that, GMs do

LALALALALALAFONTAINE 10-04-2003 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecherous
Nice lines, but we can't pay Curtis 1.5 mil to play 6 minutes a game.

Someone needs to be traded for everyone to fit, and if Roy or Gaustad are coming up, then two people need to be moved. I'm still kind of torn on who the other guy to be moved after Connolly should be.

Anyways, with all this talk about signing Steve Thomas, where the hell would he even fit? We'd probably have to trade Afinogenov and bring Dumont back up to the 2nd line, then trade Connolly and let Roy and Gaustad play in Rochester this year...which I'm not very keen at all on trading Afinogenov yet. At least he has an excuse of injury for his mediocrity, and shows a little fire every once in awhile.

Afinogenov's been injured his entire career? (40 points max)

buffalowing 10-04-2003 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Cam Neely didn't take 4-5 years to develop. Forsberg didn't. Lindros didn't. Owen Nolan didn't. So spare me the myth that power forwards take at least 4-5 years to develop. It is crap. There are plenty of non-power forwards who take forever to develop, including Steve Sullivan, Miro Satan and Markus Naslund.

Hasek took a couple years to develop too.

buffalowing 10-04-2003 10:11 PM

well what are the open game lines now seeing Hecht is out with a broken arm? Plus don't forget Connolly has to sit out the first 2 games of the season for the rest of his suspension I believe.

Here are my lines

Satan-Drury-Kotalik
Max-Briere-Dumont
Brown-Roy-Pyatt
Botterill-Mair-Boutlon/Peters

Takeo 10-05-2003 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalowing
well what are the open game lines now seeing Hecht is out with a broken arm? Plus don't forget Connolly has to sit out the first 2 games of the season for the rest of his suspension I believe.

Here are my lines

Satan-Drury-Kotalik
Max-Briere-Dumont
Brown-Roy-Pyatt
Botterill-Mair-Boutlon/Peters

Kotalik-Drury-Satan
Pyatt-Briere-Dumont
Brown-Roy-Afinogenov
Peters-Mair-Botterill/Boulton

LALALALALALAFONTAINE 10-05-2003 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalowing
Hasek took a couple years to develop too.

Yes and no. Yes, it took a few years, but he instantly established himself when he was a starter.

I think goaltenders are different, because a lot of them just don't get playing time to establish themselves. Players, OTOH, do.


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