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-   -   Top 5 Defensemen in Vancouver Canucks History: #4 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1662545)

tony d 05-02-2014 10:30 PM

Top 5 Defensemen in Vancouver Canucks History: #4
 
Thanks to everyone for voting in Poll 3, the winner was Jyrki Lumme

http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225...dbtAL0aldQ.jpg

Time now for Poll 4 where I added Paul Reinhart and voted for Doug Lidster, if you wish to see me add someone let me know.

Also vote based upon a player's time with the team in ? and not his overall career.

Here are all the defenseman to have played for Vancouver in their history:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

Here are the results so far:

1) Matthias Ohlund
2) Ed Jovanovski
3) Jyrki Lumme

Ret 05-02-2014 10:52 PM

Doug Lidster.

Madness71 05-03-2014 02:04 AM

Hamhuis.

Lauro 05-03-2014 02:59 PM

Lidster.

vadim sharifijanov 05-03-2014 03:07 PM

there's a lot more to playing D than scoring points. add harry snepsts, garth butcher, and gerald diduck. lumme lasted longer on the canucks and deserves to go higher in this poll, but in the early 90s, diduck was our most important d-man.

EDIT: oops, hit the wrong circle. change my vote from KEARNS to HAMHUIS please.

Ogie Goldthorpe 05-04-2014 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov (Post 84564447)
there's a lot more to playing D than scoring points. add harry snepsts, garth butcher, and gerald diduck. lumme lasted longer on the canucks and deserves to go higher in this poll, but in the early 90s, diduck was our most important d-man.

EDIT: oops, hit the wrong circle. change my vote from KEARNS to HAMHUIS please.

Snepsts, Diduck and Butcher all deserve to be in this poll ahead of Dennis freakin' Kearns.

John McClane 05-04-2014 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov (Post 84564447)
there's a lot more to playing D than scoring points. add harry snepsts, garth butcher, and gerald diduck. lumme lasted longer on the canucks and deserves to go higher in this poll, but in the early 90s, diduck was our most important d-man.

EDIT: oops, hit the wrong circle. change my vote from KEARNS to HAMHUIS please.

So does that make this a tie then?

JetsAlternate 05-04-2014 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McClane (Post 84590027)
So does that make this a tie then?

Today was so busy for me that I was unfortunately not able to cast my vote for this poll. I would have voted for Sami Salo.

My post in the thread for poll #3 verifies this.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...45&postcount=5
Quote:

Originally Posted by JetsAlternate (Post 84489445)
Lumme then Salo.

Quote:

Last edited by JetsAlternate; 05-02-2014 at 12:40 AM..
I last edited that post before this thread opened. If I am allowed to vote, I would like to vote for Sami Salo.

chunkylover53 05-04-2014 03:49 AM

Huh looking at this surprises me. I mean when I saw Ohlund as the #1 greatest dman it just seem off, but then again Canucks haven't been around as long as some of the other teams. But it's still surprising...

Sprague Cleghorn 05-04-2014 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunkylover53 (Post 84592267)
Huh looking at this surprises me. I mean when I saw Ohlund as the #1 greatest dman it just seem off, but then again Canucks haven't been around as long as some of the other teams. But it's still surprising...

They joined the NHL in 1970 making them with the Sabres, the 11th oldest franchise currently in the NHL after the O6, 1967 Expansion (Blues, Kings, Pens, Flyers, North Stars/Stars) teams. They've been here longer than more then 50% of the teams. Yet, their best dman is of the same caliber as most of those 90s expansion teams. :laugh:

tony d 05-04-2014 08:42 PM

Yeah I'll count your vote as the tiebreaker JetsAlternate, Poll #5 coming up shortly.

chunkylover53 05-04-2014 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprague Cleghorn (Post 84602905)
They joined the NHL in 1970 making them with the Sabres, the 11th oldest franchise currently in the NHL after the O6, 1967 Expansion (Blues, Kings, Pens, Flyers, North Stars/Stars) teams. They've been here longer than more then 50% of the teams. Yet, their best dman is of the same caliber as most of those 90s expansion teams. :laugh:

Yeah really surprising they never had a high calibur dman. I guess Jova at his peak was pretty good.

Ogie Goldthorpe 05-05-2014 01:50 PM

We've had some "good", perhaps even at their peak "very good" defensemen over the years, but no... never "great".

Hell, for the first 20 years of our existence, you could say the same for our forwards. Since then, there's really only been 3 that managed "greatness" for any period of time.

Never had a 1st overall pick, either... and, regardless, our drafting has been generally mediocre, at best. Too many Nedved's, not enough Jagr's.

Darth Milbury 05-05-2014 01:52 PM

Lars Lindgren? Garth Butcher? Harold Snepts?

vadim sharifijanov 05-05-2014 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe (Post 84646243)
We've had some "good", perhaps even at their peak "very good" defensemen over the years, but no... never "great".

Hell, for the first 20 years of our existence, you could say the same for our forwards. Since then, there's really only been 3 that managed "greatness" for any period of time.

Never had a 1st overall pick, either... and, regardless, our drafting has been generally mediocre, at best. Too many Nedved's, not enough Jagr's.

i count 5 forwards, six if you count kesler but that's highly arguable. but i'm open to the number 3, if the two left out are naslund and bertuzzi...

JetsAlternate 05-05-2014 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe (Post 84646243)
We've had some "good", perhaps even at their peak "very good" defensemen over the years, but no... never "great".

Hell, for the first 20 years of our existence, you could say the same for our forwards. Since then, there's really only been 3 that managed "greatness" for any period of time.

Never had a 1st overall pick, either... and, regardless, our drafting has been generally mediocre, at best. Too many Nedved's, not enough Jagr's.

An unofficial "first overall" player chosen by Vancouver was Pavel Bure. Picking the top-ranked player by The Hockey News in the sixth round was a steal.

Vadim, I think Markus ranks ahead of Daniel Sedin if that was who you have ranked third. If we count Markus' total goals and points in his total number of games with Vancouver and compare it with Daniel's goals and points in the same number of games, Markus still has a considerable lead in goals (a difference of 59 goals in the same number of games) and a marginal lead in points (a difference of 15 points in the same number of games).

Daniel's recent decline didn't start until he had arguably already passed Naslund in total games in a Canucks sweater. Markus' last two seasons, meanwhile, were still better than Daniel's 2013-14 campaign.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=12
Quote:

Originally Posted by JetsAlternate (Post 83998235)
Here are some very interesting numbers.

Markus Naslund played 884 games and has 346 goals, 756 points all-time for the Canucks -- that places him third all-time in Canucks scoring.

While one would think Daniel passed Naslund's totals in a lower number of games, playing with Henrik, Daniel did not.

We can all agree Daniel's decline started to become apparent near the end of the 2013 season; Daniel, as of today, has played 979 games for the Canucks. If we look only at Daniel's first 884 games (the cutoff date being March 12, 2013), we can observe his totals before the decline.

In Daniel Sedin's first 884 games with the Canucks, he only had 287 goals, 741 points. Markus, in the same number of games, scored 15 more points -- 346 goals, 756 points. If we assume Henrik is the second-best Canuck of all time, Markus accomplished this without him (whom we assume Daniel has incredible chemistry with) as his linemate.

Markus, at one point, was regarded as a top-three player in the league, was the runner-up to the Art Ross twice, and was the runner-up to the Rocket Richard with 48 goals in 2002-03. Many considered Naslund to have one of the best wrist shots in the game at his peak.

Daniel Sedin won the Ted Lindsay Award, but so did Markus (he won the Lester B. Pearson Award before it was renamed). Daniel's peak single-season point total is 104 (2011-12); so is Naslund's (2002-03).

Markus had more individual skill than Daniel has. He could thread his shot through a crowd of players when it seemed there was nowhere to shoot; he was a very good skater and was a great goal scorer whose play improved with confidence. In the 2002-03 season, he was the first player to reach the 30-goal mark, accomplishing it in Game #41 against the powerhouse Ottawa Senators.

Markus was a five-time NHL All Star.



He was unfairly booed out of Vancouver and has since received very little respect from a lot of fans. The answer should be Naslund.



He was always really tough on himself and was very honest. Sometimes that rubbed supporters of the team the wrong way. When the team struggled, they twisted his words and turned them against him. In his final game with the Canucks, he was booed while Trevor Linden received a standing ovation from the fans inside the arena.

The shift below is from after the lockout. By then, he began to slow down, especially with the lingering effects of the Moore hit; the shift demonstrates the dominance his line could have against the opposition. The West Coast Express was perhaps the best line in hockey in the early 2000s, and a big reason for that was Naslund.



vadim sharifijanov 05-05-2014 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetsAlternate (Post 84654127)
An unofficial "first overall" player chosen by Vancouver was Pavel Bure. Picking the top-ranked player by The Hockey News in the sixth round was a steal.

Vadim, I think Markus ranks ahead of Daniel Sedin if that was who you have ranked third. If we count Markus' total goals and points in his total number of games with Vancouver and compare it with Daniel's goals and points in the same number of games, Markus still has a considerable lead in goals and a marginal lead in points.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=12

i understand your position on an objective level. however, i hate naslund. no amount of facts or careful, well-thought-out analysis is going to change that.

back on topic: add diduck


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