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-   -   "Blame the refs" vs. "Blame the team"...which camp are you in? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1689967)

Cobra Jack* 06-15-2014 12:29 AM

"Blame the refs" vs. "Blame the team"...which camp are you in?
 
I was listening to J.J. after dark on WFAN, and he said we as fans have "no right to blame the refs" and how it is a "loser mentality". I don't understand this way of thinking. What are we as fans supposed to say when 2 blatant calls/non-calls turn the games around for the other team, and cost us a chance at winning?

His "reasoning" for not blaming the refs is that "the Rangers still had a chance to win after the bad calls"...huh?!?! Am I the only one who doesn't get the logic of this? OF COURSE we had a chance to win, but does that change the fact that the bad calls TURNED THE GAME AROUND? Absolutely not.

Personally, I blame the refs AND the team. Yes, the team had a chance to overcome the bad calls. Yes, the team did NOT respond well after the bad calls were made, and YES we sucked in the 3rd periods AND in the overtimes.

But does that somehow magically erase the FACT that 2 bad calls cost us 2 games? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Yet guys like J.J. on WFAN seem to think it does. "Well, the Rangers played bad in the 3rd and in O.T. so they deserved to lose anyway"...WTF??? Seriously???

I'm sorry, we played bad in the 3rd and in OT no doubt. That does NOT erase the fact though that we got SCREWED OVER HARD by the refs in this series. You can call me a whiner all you want, but I have THE TRUTH on my side. Where do you stand on this issue?

JeffMangum 06-15-2014 12:32 AM

The truth, as it almost always does, lies in the middle.

Was the refereeing porous? Yes. Is it a legitimate excuse? No. We had plenty of chances to close out game 1, 2, and 5, but we simply weren't able to finish on our chances.

Matt4776 06-15-2014 12:32 AM

We were outplayed by the Kings. They were a better team and I guess they "deserved" the cup.

That said, it still does leave a bad taste in my mouth that games 2 and 5 were tied on bad calls (or non-calls) from the refs. Game 2 had the obvious non-call on goalie interference that DIRECTLY game them a goal, and game 5 had a phantom tripping call on Zucc when it should've been on Muzzin.

That being said again, we should've been over to overcome those and use those bad calls as motivation if we were a championship team. But it's still frustrating.

ReggieDunlop68 06-15-2014 12:38 AM

I think it's more along the lines of selective memory.

People forget every good call or non-call that helped the Rangers.

We didn't score on a power play that was given early in both of the overtimes, but the league wanted it that way.

JeffMangum 06-15-2014 12:39 AM

Also, I don't see why this board always needs something to blame or victimize after a loss. Sometimes a loss is just a loss. It's hockey, it happens. Can't we just reminisce about how great this year was, despite the disappointing ending?

Riverdale 06-15-2014 12:40 AM

Those bad calls are a small taste of what is to come if the NHL doesn't fire these ****ing morons, or start holding them accountable.

Ranger fans are not the only ones who have been on the wrong side of a few bad calls this season and all playoffs. I don't watch football but there was that whole replacement ref fiasco. People were losing their minds. Why is there no accountability in the NHL? I would really love to know.

For whatever reason the Rangers seemed to get a LOT of bad calls against them. Is it the reason they lost? Not entirely, but they certainly did change the momentum of game 2 and 5.

The Kings were a better team at the end of the day.

Cobra Jack* 06-15-2014 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt4776 (Post 86487735)
We were outplayed by the Kings. They were a better team and I guess they "deserved" the cup.

That said, it still does leave a bad taste in my mouth that games 2 and 5 were tied on bad calls (or non-calls) from the refs. Game 2 had the obvious non-call on goalie interference that DIRECTLY game them a goal, and game 5 had a phantom tripping call on Zucc when it should've been on Muzzin.

That being said again, we should've been over to overcome those and use those bad calls as motivation if we were a championship team. But it's still frustrating.

I could agree with that sentiment more IF the Rangers were the favorites coming into this series. But the fact of the matter is we were the UNDERDOGS. It is very hard to overcome game-changing calls against you when you are the UNDERDOG team. When you are the FAVORITES, and bad calls go against you, you are "expected" to overcome that. But for an UNDERDOG team, that's a really tough thing to ask for.

I just feel as the underdog team, our chance to win was taken away from us.

Inferno 06-15-2014 12:44 AM

i give credit to the opposition.

damn good team.

ReggieDunlop68 06-15-2014 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverdale (Post 86487887)
i. Those bad calls are a small taste of what is to come if the NHL doesn't fire these ****ing morons, or start holding them accountable.

ii. Ranger fans are not the only ones who have been on the wrong side of a few bad calls this season and all playoffs. I don't watch football but there was that whole replacement ref fiasco. People were losing their minds. Why is there no accountability in the NHL? I would really love to know.

iii. For whatever reason the Rangers seemed to get a LOT of bad calls against them. Is it the reason they lost? Not entirely, but they certainly did change the momentum of game 2 and 5.

iv. The Kings were a better team at the end of the day.

i. *****ing about officials is not a new phenomena in fandom

ii. what does the NFL have to do with this

iii. I doubt that has to do with you watching the Ranger game with a microscope will being more objective with the small sample of footage you gathered from all the other games

iv. Ding-Ding-Ding! And a lot of the Rangers played their ***** off while the "top-line" couldn't bring it.

Cobra Jack* 06-15-2014 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 (Post 86487849)
I think it's more along the lines of selective memory.

People forget every good call or non-call that helped the Rangers.

We didn't score on a power play that was given early in both of the overtimes, but the league wanted it that way.

I blame the team as well. My point is, the "bad calls" were heavily against us this series for whatever reason. Not saying it was intentional, but it still angers me. That's not "selective memory". There were no "game changing" calls/non-calls to the Kings detriment this entire series. NONE. We had TWO that affected the outcome of the game DIRECTLY. That's all I'm saying.

Inferno 06-15-2014 12:53 AM

the problem with the bad calls is it seemed like they almost always ended up in the back of our net as a direct result of the call, and when we got favorable calls, we never made the opposition pay.

the reason for that?

inconsistent PP.

the reason for that?

Brad Richards.


i point my fingers squarely at him as the biggest disappointment in these playoffs for the Rangers.

Cobra Jack* 06-15-2014 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno (Post 86488107)
the problem with the bad calls is it seemed like they almost always ended up in the back of our net as a direct result of the call, and when we got favorable calls, we never made the opposition pay.

the reason for that?

inconsistent PP.

the reason for that?

Brad Richards.


i point my fingers squarely at him as the biggest disappointment in these playoffs for the Rangers.

He was horrible, no doubt. No idea why AV kept putting him on the power play. He skated 2 miles an hour and had the weakest point shot ever. ALWAYS got blocked when he shot it, ugh. Rather have 2 D-men back there.

Brooklyn Ranger 06-15-2014 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianBoyle (Post 86487861)
Also, I don't see why this board always needs something to blame or victimize after a loss. Sometimes a loss is just a loss. It's hockey, it happens. Can't we just reminisce about how great this year was, despite the disappointing ending?

Well said. The season is over. The organization has to build on the good things that happened this year, so the team can do better and win it all. This group came close, I don't think there is any reason for blaming them, they left it all on the ice.

Well done Rangers!:handclap::handclap::handclap:

CDiablo 06-15-2014 02:02 AM

I blame the team in the end but the bad calls STING. Real bad. You have those what ifs and they haunt the losing team for a long time.

Lundsanity30 06-15-2014 02:06 AM

both..

but the Kings are a better team. no shame admitting that.

The New Originals 06-15-2014 07:48 AM

NYR lost because they were outplayed in nearly every game. Making a habit of blowing leads will kill you in the playoffs, especially when you are competing against the best team in the league.

qwertyaas 06-15-2014 07:52 AM

Refs happen. It affects all teams. This team got outplayed in every 3rd period. Game 2 hurt but if you blame the Refs exclusively, you are giving the team a free pass.

eco's bones 06-15-2014 07:54 AM

Poor officiating can absolutely tilt a game one way or the other. The referees did not do us a lot of favors in this series. Some teams take advantage of their breaks more than others. Some teams work the %'s harder to get breaks or get more breaks than their opposition. Both Montreal and L.A. did that though the Kings did it without all the diving--more by pressuring the defense all the time.

Of the finals the Kings seemed to have an edge on the Rangers overall. The margins were close. IMO the Rangers could have won any of games 1,3 and 5--should have won game 2 and should have lost game 4--just on the play alone. Ironically the only game they won is the game they most deserved to lose. It should be noted that the Rangers tended throughout the series to have very strong starts and the Kings tended to finish games a lot better. The Rangers couldn't hold leads which is not something I think most of us I think would have expected. The Rangers have for a long time been excellent at closing out games no matter if the other team had all the momentum. They couldn't do it in this series with the exception of game 4.

As far as JJ--whoever he is? on WFAN. I expect JJ has to keep up appearances. There are accepted tenets to the talking heads of the sports world and one of them is that if you want credibility you never question the officiating as regards the outcome of any game unless there's already a large wave of others of your ilk doing so already and generally speaking the NHL playoffs is not as important to many of these talking heads as the superbowl, the 7th game of the world series or the final game of the NCAA basketball championship.

KOVALEV022473 06-15-2014 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 (Post 86487849)
I think it's more along the lines of selective memory.

People forget every good call or non-call that helped the Rangers.

We didn't score on a power play that was given early in both of the overtimes, but the league wanted it that way.

I don't get this line of thinking. You don't just score at will at this level! It's the finals for a reason. With that in mind, a pp doesn't negate a GOAL that shoud have been disallowed with a PP awarded to us. As for favorable calls for and against, I'd say the non calls heavily favored LA. The Rangers whole game is predicated upon speed which was largely negated by their mastery of obstruction and interference. So, either way the calls favored the opposition.

OverTheCap 06-15-2014 08:24 AM

It's a combination of the refs, Bettman, Stephane Quintal, the schedulemakers, Emrick and Olcyzk, bad ice, bad bounces, bad luck, and, most importantly, the fans on the main boards who aren't giving the Rangers any respect.

Seriously Rangers fans... enough with the persecution complex and self-victimization.

haohmaru 06-15-2014 08:44 AM

The Rangers lost this series because they didn't capitalize enough on their chances and this has been an organizational weakness since Jagr left. How many glorious chances did we have that we didn't bury? Nash hitting the shaft of the the D's stick on empty net, St. Louis had a ton of chances, Zooks firing wide and missing the net, Richards "slappers" missing the net, etc....

You can, however, point to the non goalie interference call as a turning point in the series. I'm not in the Rangers heads, but at that point you have to wonder whether they felt like they were playing the Kings and the refs. I'd lean towards "no" in that argument because they took the Kings to OT despite that non call.

pld459666 06-15-2014 08:47 AM

Blame the team.

We had enough opportunities to win the games in LA.

I don't believe in blaming Ref's

DMPD 06-15-2014 09:12 AM

The Rangers didn't capitalize on their breaks, opportunities or favorable calls. Even though they weren't gifted a goal, they were given plenty of chances to earn one on the PP. Blaming the refs is generally speaking an excuse. The only situation where I would hold the refs 100 percent accountable is if they called a non-goal a goal in overtime of a series deciding game. Something like a distinct kicking goal or pushed in with a glove.

Anytime the Rangers have ample opportunity to close out a game before or after a poor call it becomes very difficult to start placing the blame elsewhere.

As far as a "loser mentality" goes, it's only a loser mentality if the players harp on it and let it affect their performance.

DMPD 06-15-2014 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverTheCap (Post 86491803)
It's a combination of the refs, Bettman, Stephane Quintal, the schedulemakers, Emrick and Olcyzk, bad ice, bad bounces, bad luck, and, most importantly, the fans on the main boards who aren't giving the Rangers any respect.

Seriously Rangers fans... enough with the persecution complex and self-victimization.

To be fair the Rangers are a very much hated team and really don't get the benefit of the doubt or any credit around the league. Such is life as a New York fan, however. Lots of jealousy and spiteful feelings for a franchise who hasn't exactly had a winning atmosphere for the majority of it's tenure in the league.

klingsor 06-15-2014 09:21 AM

I blame the Kings.

The Rangers did a whole lot better than I expected this season.


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