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-   -   Ryder : Best player in preseason... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=17029)

Gainey RULZ 10-04-2003 09:59 PM

Ryder : Best player in preseason...
 
Michael Ryder has 2goals and 3 assists in preseason and lead the team with 5 points :yo: :handclap:

Quote:

In seven exhibition games, he has two goals and three assists. ``I think I've felt more comfortable as the preseason went on,'' Ryder said. ``I'm starting to get comfortable playing with Yanic and Jan.''
( http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...59&hubName=nhl )

So what we can expect of him for this season and do you think that the Bulis-Perreault-Ryder line will be good??

Like I'm always optimist with the habs, I think he will have a very good season with them (if CJ keep this line) :yo:

(sorry I don't know if my english is good.. en tk.. pas grave..lol)

GO HABS GO !!!

Munchausen 10-04-2003 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gainey RULZ
(sorry I don't know if my english is good.. en tk.. pas grave..lol)

Your English is just fine. Trust me you don't have to worry it's very clear. Don't hesitate to use it and write more.

I'm a big Ryder fan myself and see great things happening for him this year. But his role will depend on a lot of things, mainly on which line he'll play.

The Hossa/Ribeiro/Zednik and Bulis/Perreault/Ryder have been doing fine in pre-season but will it hold in regular? Also who's Koivu going to play with when he comes back (likely in a couple of games)? Maybe They'll match Koivu and Zednik again.

What I think is the best line combos (for now):

Bulis - Koivu - Zednik
Hossa - Ribeiro - Audette
Sundstrom - Perreault - Ryder
Begin/Langdon/Dwyer - Kilger - Ward

Well something like that anyway...

Gainey RULZ 10-04-2003 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Your English is just fine. Trust me you don't have to worry it's very clear. Don't hesitate to use it and write more.

I'm a big Ryder fan myself and see great things happening for him this year. But his role will depend on a lot of things, mainly on which line he'll play.

The Hossa/Ribeiro/Zednik and Bulis/Perreault/Ryder have been doing fine in pre-season but will it hold in regular? Also who's Koivu going to play with when he comes back (likely in a couple of games)? Maybe They'll match Koivu and Zednik again.

What I think is the best line combos (for now):

Bulis - Koivu - Zednik
Hossa - Ribeiro - Audette
Sundstrom - Perreault - Ryder
Begin/Langdon/Dwyer - Kilger - Ward

Well something like that anyway...

Yeah....agree with you... and your lines seem very good!

Komisaruis 10-04-2003 10:37 PM

Why not use:

Zednik - Koivu - Ward
Hossa - Ribeiro - Audette
Bulis - Perreault - Ryder
Sundstrom - Kilger - Begin/Langdon/Dwyer


With thats lines... We have 3 good scoring line!

Proffessor G DIDDY 10-04-2003 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Komisaruis
Why not use:

Zednik - Koivu - Ward
Hossa - Ribeiro - Audette
Bulis - Perreault - Ryder
Sundstrom - Kilger - Begin/Langdon/Dwyer


With thats lines... We have 3 good scoring line!

Nah I think of this way

Bulis - Koivu - Zednik
Hossa - Ribeiro - Audette
Sundstrom - Perreault - Ward
Ryder - Kilger - Begin/Langdon/Dwyer

This way u have an true 1st line that can put up goals reliably, Bulis and Zednik are improving. In the East u really a need line that produce 1 or 2 goals each game. The 3rd is can have the ability to shut down a top, sundstrom quality defensive player, perreault can win faceoffs and ward an able checker. BUT THE BIG WORRY IS ON THE DEFENSIVE END. A good group of forwards and goaltending but defense is important.

Munchausen 10-04-2003 11:26 PM

Well it's always a variation around the same few players; Ward, Ryder and a couple of 3rd liners.

Personally, I think Hossa, Zednik, Ribeiro, Bulis, Audette and Koivu are our starting top-6.

Ryder and Ward, 2 natural right-wingers, will likely start on the 3rd and 4th line (who plays on the 3rd and who and the 4th is arguable).

Also guys like Dackell, Juneau, Sundstrom or Perreault, would be pretty useless on a 4th line as they're all soft and small. More suited for the 3rd. Problem is, we have too much 3rd liners. So we keep the 3-4 best of them and we trade/wave/send to minors the rest, while creating a crash and bang 4th line just the way I like 'em. :D

CrAzYNiNe 10-04-2003 11:54 PM

It great he put up points. But remember the great pre-season we had last year, maybe that was the problem in itself, but Balej and Chow lead the league in points(no sure if Balej was #2, but had a bunch). I am happy Ryder is doing good, but not ready to jump on the bandwagon yet.

Munchausen 10-05-2003 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
It great he put up points. But remember the great pre-season we had last year, maybe that was the problem in itself, but Balej and Chow lead the league in points(no sure if Balej was #2, but had a bunch). I am happy Ryder is doing good, but not ready to jump on the bandwagon yet.

Except there's a slight (ok big) difference between Ryder and Balej/Czerkawski. He's a complete player, they're not. If they can't score, they're useless. If Ryder can't score, he still can deliver hits, grind it up in the corners and play well defensively, meaning it's not justified to compare those cases. There's nothing one-dimensional about Michael Ryder, which makes it that more easy for management to keep him.

AK-47 10-05-2003 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Except there's a slight (ok big) difference between Ryder and Balej/Czerkawski. He's a complete player, they're not. If they can't score, they're useless. If Ryder can't score, he still can deliver hits, grind it up in the corners and play well defensively, meaning it's not justified to compare those cases. There's nothing one-dimensional about Michael Ryder, which makes it that more easy for management to keep him.


Totally True, Ryder brings a complete game to the table. Besides, I want a hard working and physical team. Basically, a team with Character. Guys like Ryder, Ward, Bégin and Langdon bring exactly that. The question is can all of the above be on the roster once injuries trim down?


In my mind, Ryder is set for a spot on the roster come opening night. Otherwise, it will be a travesty.

Proffessor G DIDDY 10-05-2003 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK-47
Totally True, Ryder brings a complete game to the table. Besides, I want a hard working and physical team. Basically, a team with Character. Guys like Ryder, Ward, Bégin and Langdon bring exactly that. The question is can all of the above be on the roster once injuries trim down?


In my mind, Ryder is set for a spot on the roster come opening night. Otherwise, it will be a travesty.

True, in North East division, every team has got an guy on each line that can grind and occasionaly get goals. Guys like Ryder, Ward, Higgins, etc will important, coz right now the Habs are the smallest and weakest team in the divi.

AK-47 10-05-2003 05:27 AM

Exactly, I think most of us would prefer a team that works and hussles. Something we didn't have last year.

Taking that into consideration, I'd get rid of a player like audette. Let's face it, what does he bring to team when he doesn't score goals? Answer, not very much. Besides, can he really follow the defensive system implamented by CJ?

SwedenRulez 10-05-2003 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen


Bulis - Koivu - Zednik
Hossa - Ribeiro - Audette
Sundstrom - Perreault - Ryder

Agree, Zednik can't be at his very best without Koivu and Koivu can't have another RW than Zednik IMO. Ryder's Place is on 3rd line. But I would like to see a 4th line like:

Langdon/Bégin/Dwyer-Juneau-Ward

+Dackell as scratch.

danboulie 10-05-2003 07:37 AM

I'm on the same side as Crazy_Nine. Don't count your chickens until they hatch. Remember how well Hainsey, and Chow did last preseason, but sort of veered off come regular season? That's why I don't put too much stock into the preseason.
I really hope Ryder does well, but i'm not going to get my expectations very high from the preseason. I"ll wait and see hw well he does against the real competition of the reg. season before I start getting overly excited about things.

coconut 10-05-2003 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aphotic
I'm on the same side as Crazy_Nine. Don't count your chickens until they hatch. Remember how well Hainsey, and Chow did last preseason, but sort of veered off come regular season? That's why I don't put too much stock into the preseason.
I really hope Ryder does well, but i'm not going to get my expectations very high from the preseason. I"ll wait and see hw well he does against the real competition of the reg. season before I start getting overly excited about things.

In the same manner, some players didn't perform well at all during pre-season and were excellent during regular season.

Take Markov for example, he was sidelined during pre-season for muscle spasms... some people were talking about his less-than-average physical condition (cigarettes blablabla). I remember Bergeron saying on 110%: "Markov?!? Forget about him. He's no good. Hainsey is our #1 LD, not next year, not tomorrow, RIGHT NOW."

gohabsgo2010 10-05-2003 08:15 AM

Going into Training Camp, the first line was Bulis - Koivu - Audette. Things are much different now, though. What exactly has Donald done to earn any sort of spot? You have to wonder who Ryder would be playing with if Koivu was healthy.

Bulis - Perreault (Koivu?) - Ryder

Maybe Perreault is simply centering those two until Saku returns? It's not a great first line by any means, but with most likely Dackell returning ( :mad: ) on the bottom two lines, maybe Claude Julien feels that to play Ryder on the top line is better than him eating popcorn in the pressbox?

CrAzYNiNe 10-05-2003 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Except there's a slight (ok big) difference between Ryder and Balej/Czerkawski. He's a complete player, they're not. If they can't score, they're useless. If Ryder can't score, he still can deliver hits, grind it up in the corners and play well defensively, meaning it's not justified to compare those cases. There's nothing one-dimensional about Michael Ryder, which makes it that more easy for management to keep him.

I agree but totally disagree. What you are saying is because he is a diffrent player then chow and Balej that he can't be bad on the team? Well look at Kilger, he through his body around, but he doesn't score all that much and we ride him like a dog. I want Ryder to be a great player, but they have to proove it over countless seasons, not just one. I also worry about Markov now. He had one good season, will he have a nother or was that his peak? I am not putting either of these guys down, just merely looking at the bare essentials of everything not the great upsides or even the terrible downsides, but the hard on facts of the possibility of them stumbling.

Munchausen 10-05-2003 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
I agree but totally disagree. What you are saying is because he is a diffrent player then chow and Balej that he can't be bad on the team? Well look at Kilger, he through his body around, but he doesn't score all that much and we ride him like a dog. I want Ryder to be a great player, but they have to proove it over countless seasons, not just one. I also worry about Markov now. He had one good season, will he have a nother or was that his peak? I am not putting either of these guys down, just merely looking at the bare essentials of everything not the great upsides or even the terrible downsides, but the hard on facts of the possibility of them stumbling.

Again, Kilger is not consistent at all and does not work every shift, let alone every night. Ryder works like if his life depended on it every single shift. Look, I'm not saying we would be crazy to play Ryder on a 4th line in a grinding role as he can do that too, but if a guy like Ryder plays on a scoring line with 2 small players he brings something else to the table aside from goals. He grinds it hard in the corners, he hits, creates some room... Those qualities warrant he'll be useful no matter where he plays. And in all honesty, I'd much rather have him play on the second line and score 12-13 goals this year than Audette who could probably score 20 but be overall lest effective and cost us more goals.

Of course, again, I agree in the essence of your idea that pre-season means nothing, but nonetheless he earned his ice time by being the best along with Ribeiro. That's how things work. If you earned your spot during pre-season, it's yours to lose...

CrAzYNiNe 10-05-2003 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Again, Kilger is not consistent at all and does not work every shift, let alone every night. Ryder works like if his life depended on it every single shift. Look, I'm not saying we would be crazy to play Ryder on a 4th line in a grinding role as he can do that too, but if a guy like Ryder plays on a scoring line with 2 small players he brings something else to the table aside from goals. He grinds it hard in the corners, he hits, creates some room... Those qualities warrant he'll be useful no matter where he plays. And in all honesty, I'd much rather have him play on the second line and score 12-13 goals this year than Audette who could probably score 20 but be overall lest effective and cost us more goals.

Of course, again, I agree in the essence of your idea that pre-season means nothing, but nonetheless he earned his ice time by being the best along with Ribeiro. That's how things work. If you earned your spot during pre-season, it's yours to lose...

Absolutely, he earned his spot. But like most player playing for a spot, they play well then go downhill. I don't want Ryder to do that, but the best example I have is Kilger, when Kilger first started in MTL he was going to be our saviour, big guy, skill, talent... then he has a bunch of bad games, then bad months... Why is ryder any diffrent?

Munchausen 10-05-2003 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
Absolutely, he earned his spot. But like most player playing for a spot, they play well then go downhill. I don't want Ryder to do that, but the best example I have is Kilger, when Kilger first started in MTL he was going to be our saviour, big guy, skill, talent... then he has a bunch of bad games, then bad months... Why is ryder any diffrent?

Ryder is different because he works hard every shift. That's what he has. He's a character forward. He's relentless. He doesn't get intimidated. Never takes nights off. He always works hard. Always. Can you say the same for Kilger?

CrAzYNiNe 10-05-2003 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Ryder is different because he works hard every shift. That's what he has. He's a character forward. He's relentless. He doesn't get intimidated. Never takes nights off. He always works hard. Always. Can you say the same for Kilger?

Lazyness is more learnt then just plain having it. Kilger seemed to be a relentless player in those month after we aquired him from Edmonton, it was a new chance for him and he was making sure to take full advantage of it.(Wow, we have one physical offencive player on teh habs in Kilger, cause I can't use any other examples) :\

didjuicythat 10-05-2003 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
Lazyness is more learnt then just plain having it. Kilger seemed to be a relentless player in those month after we aquired him from Edmonton, it was a new chance for him and he was making sure to take full advantage of it.(Wow, we have one physical offencive player on teh habs in Kilger, cause I can't use any other examples) :\

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Ryder is different because he works hard every shift. That's what he has. He's a character forward. He's relentless. He doesn't get intimidated. Never takes nights off. He always works hard. Always. Can you say the same for Kilger?

I think you guys are both right, to an extent. I'd say Ryder could be much more useful to the team, mostly because of his never die attitude, but on the other hand, I remember pretty well Kilger's first few games with the team; he was everywhere on the ice, letting the bodychecks go and fighting for the puck. That's the effect that playing on a new team has on the guy.

I'm not saying Ryder with lose this never die attitude after he plays a couple of NHL games, but that may very well be possible. Until he proves he can play this type of game on a regular basis, and show he can play at a higher level of intensity than Kilger did in the past, I'd say we can't pretend Ryder is more useful to the team. I really like this relentless attitude he has, though. He hardly gets intimidated.

Munchausen 10-05-2003 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
Lazyness is more learnt then just plain having it. Kilger seemed to be a relentless player in those month after we aquired him from Edmonton, it was a new chance for him and he was making sure to take full advantage of it.(Wow, we have one physical offencive player on teh habs in Kilger, cause I can't use any other examples) :\

Not sure I agree. Since drafted 4th overall, Kilger had all the hype but was touted as a guy that never took charge and did not work his ass off to bring his game to the next level. Of course every player has a boost when he's traded. He wants to impress. But that's not the real player. That's not what is to be expected (well not necessarly). And before you ask me how do I know that Ryder will continue to work like he did in pre-season as he too was trying to impress, I'll just respond that anybody that followed Ryder a bit since drafted knows that he does not have any other way to play that game. He always gives his best, no matter the circumstances.

Ryder is the complete opposite of Kilger. He's smaller, but plays bigger. He's slower, but is smarter on the ice. He was a very late pick that everywhere he played, never received credit from anybody, as opposed to Kilger who received too much, and continued to work his butt off years after years to become the complete player he is today, where Kilger never step it up. Kilger's still pretty much the same player he was when drafted. Ryder's not.

CrAzYNiNe 10-05-2003 12:55 PM

He was a very late pick that everywhere he played, never received credit from anybody[/QUOTE]

You siad it best with:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Of course every player has a boost when he's traded. He wants to impress.

Then you wrote:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
He was a very late pick that everywhere he played, never received credit from anybody

First I am only using Kilger as an example of a big player being lazy, not really a comparisson.

From those 2 quotes you just prooved my point, players need to proove themselves, Ryder was a 9th Round pick, he damn well needs to impress to get a chance, so obciously if he is a lazy they wouldn't look twice.

But on the other hand, Kilger was 4th Overall and well no matter what he did, he had a lot of chances so they aren't really comparible.

Will Ryder be like Demitra, a late round steal, or like those no name players that we never really hear about? It's up to him, he has shown us that he has the potential, the will and desire, but will he keep it? I think he will, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

Munchausen 10-05-2003 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
He was a very late pick that everywhere he played, never received credit from anybody

You siad it best with:


Then you wrote:


First I am only using Kilger as an example of a big player being lazy, not really a comparisson.

From those 2 quotes you just prooved my point, players need to proove themselves, Ryder was a 9th Round pick, he damn well needs to impress to get a chance, so obciously if he is a lazy they wouldn't look twice.

But on the other hand, Kilger was 4th Overall and well no matter what he did, he had a lot of chances so they aren't really comparible.

Will Ryder be like Demitra, a late round steal, or like those no name players that we never really hear about? It's up to him, he has shown us that he has the potential, the will and desire, but will he keep it? I think he will, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

Well ok then. I think we can come to a consensus about that one. Agreed Kilger and Ryder are not comparable as they followed very different paths and have very different personalities as you just mentioned.

Also it's true that nothing guarentees that Ryder will produce like crazy in the NHL (and it was never my intention to say so). He might be a 4th liner, might be more, but I just wanted to set things straight regarding his style of play and attitude as Ryder is a clutch player that not only plays fearless, but plays consistently hard.

CrAzYNiNe 10-05-2003 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Well ok then. I think we can come to a consensus about that one. Agreed Kilger and Ryder are not comparable as they followed very different paths and have very different personalities as you just mentioned.

Also it's true that nothing guarentees that Ryder will produce like crazy in the NHL (and it was never my intention to say so). He might be a 4th liner, might be more, but I just wanted to set things straight regarding his style of play and attitude as Ryder is a clutch player that not only plays fearless, but plays consistently hard.

I can agree to that!


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