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-   -   It's officially a debate: Ken Holland vs. Garth Snow (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1707199)

Eggberto 07-10-2014 04:00 PM

It's officially a debate: Ken Holland vs. Garth Snow
 
It saddens me that it has come to this.

Whom would you rather have as your teams general manager?

Who would win in celebrity death match?

The struggle is real.

Sidney the Kidney 07-10-2014 04:10 PM

How, exactly, is it a debate?

One GM's team hasn't missed the playoffs in, what, 25 seasons? The other GM's team has made the playoffs once in, what, 5 or 6 seasons?

One GM has multiple Cup rings on his resume, the other has multiple top five picks on his resume.

One GM has a team that would turn heads if they missed the playoffs, while the other GM has a team that would turn heads if they actually made the playoffs.

I'm missing where the debate is.

DBU 07-10-2014 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney (Post 87911485)
How, exactly, is it a debate?

One GM's team hasn't missed the playoffs in, what, 25 seasons? The other GM's team has made the playoffs once in, what, 5 or 6 seasons?

One GM has multiple Cup rings on his resume, the other has multiple top five picks on his resume.

One GM has a team that would turn heads if they missed the playoffs, while the other GM has a team that would turn heads if they actually made the playoffs.

I'm missing where the debate is.

One GM traded a 1st rounder for Vanek and got a 2nd rounder back. The other signed Kyle Quincey and Dan Cleary.

I think that's where the debate is.

Billy Mays Here 07-10-2014 04:16 PM

Regardless of what Holland has or hasn't done the last couple years, Snow is still on another planet as far as awful GMs go.

Clamshells 07-10-2014 04:18 PM

is it a coincidence that one has one of the best owners in the league while the other has one of the worst?

Louie the Blue 07-10-2014 04:23 PM

While Detroit's offseason leaves much to be desired, Holland's track record is still better than Snow's.

The Nose 07-10-2014 04:24 PM

Ken Holland is one of the worst GM's in the league. No need to compare him to others, he's in a league of his own.

Brad Doty 07-10-2014 04:30 PM

So are we just supposed to toss aside decades of sample size?

gamefan14* 07-10-2014 04:42 PM

ok hollands a bit of a numskull resigning bad players but he's still one of the best gms in the league, cant blame him for playing not wanting to live in detroit lol


90% of the internet or even random people on the street who dont follow hockey would be a better gm then garth snow lol

TatarTangle 07-10-2014 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Doty (Post 87912465)
So are we just supposed to toss aside decades of sample size?

It goes beyond that. It's becoming more apparent as time goes on that Holland was just riding the coattails of others.

Hip Of Rick 07-10-2014 04:47 PM

Snow is one of the worst GMs in NHL history.

Trottier 07-10-2014 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney (Post 87911485)
How, exactly, is it a debate?....

You don't get it.

Holland's many meaningful accomplishments happened....more than five minutes ago.

Snow made exciting draft picks!, trades! and signings! within the last two weeks.

Hence, it's a "debate".

That's how some roll around here.

Preds33 07-10-2014 04:47 PM

We should throw Poile in this Mix

Mortgage Broker 07-10-2014 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBU (Post 87911645)
One GM traded a 1st rounder for Vanek and got a 2nd rounder back. The other signed Kyle Quincey and Dan Cleary.

I think that's where the debate is.

He traded the 1st round pick in a deep draft plus a second rounder PLUS Matt Moulson for a few months rental , a second rounder and a meh prospect.

That has to be the dumbest trade I have seen in a very long time. Close second is his bonehead Nino trade .

You cant make this stuff up folks. What I want to know from Islander fans is......how the hell is Garth Snow still employed? :shakehead

WinterEmpire 07-10-2014 04:49 PM

Holland has been heading down hill for a while

BananaSquad 07-10-2014 04:52 PM

My god Red Wing fans are spoiled. Ken Holland is a terrific gm be thankful your team makes the playoffs every season. #wagonjumpers

Iridescent* 07-10-2014 04:52 PM

I'm a huge fan of what Snow did this off-season

Brad Doty 07-10-2014 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TatarTangle (Post 87913161)
It goes beyond that. It's becoming more apparent as time goes on that Holland was just riding the coattails of others.

If you do anything in life for decades there are going to be ebbs and flows. Look at Lou and the Devils.

Hiring the right people is part of being a good GM, too. If you want to call that riding coattails, so be it.

Moskau 07-10-2014 04:54 PM

Holland has been carried by a great owner and incredible scouting staff for years. However he's also helped create the environment that makes people want to play for Detroit. Sadly he can't get people to leave Detroit now.

Penosity 07-10-2014 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TatarTangle (Post 87913161)
It goes beyond that. It's becoming more apparent as time goes on that Holland was just riding the coattails of others.

Of who, Bowman?
He's been gone for 12 years.

Machinehead 07-10-2014 04:57 PM

The question is, how much slack do we cut GM's just because their teams make the playoffs?

The Rangers are always in the playoffs, does that excuse Sather's yearly bonehead moves?

100 Third Graders 07-10-2014 04:58 PM

I think Holland has been declining quickly since the implementation of the salary cap. The Wings were the Wings in part because he had a blank check to bring on whoever he wanted via trade and free agency and they also had a great European scouting department when many NHL teams neglected the region which allowed the Wings to hold on as long as they have, but quite frankly Holland has not done anything since 2005 to impress me. But to say he is the worst, is extreme, bottom 1/3 maybe.

Mount Suribachi 07-10-2014 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TatarTangle (Post 87913161)
It goes beyond that. It's becoming more apparent as time goes on that Holland was just riding the coattails of others.

That's just plain old revisionism.

But Holland has unquestionably become far, far, FAR too conservative the last 5 years. He's drafted really well, but his trade and free agency performance has been nothing short of abysmal.

Mount Suribachi 07-10-2014 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adirondack Flames (Post 87913723)
I think Holland has been declining quickly since the implementation of the salary cap. The Wings were the Wings in part because he had a blank check to bring on whoever he wanted via trade and free agency and they also had a great European scouting department when many NHL teams neglected the region which allowed the Wings to hold on as long as they have, but quite frankly Holland has not done anything since 2005 to impress me. But to say he is the worst, is extreme, bottom 1/3 maybe.

Nothing since 2005? Apart from WCF,champs, SCF for 3 straight years? With a team made up almost entirely of his draft picks, his trades, and his free agents. Change 2005 to 2010 and you have a point

Eggberto 07-10-2014 05:26 PM

The issue is that we live in a world where a GM or a Coach or even players to an extent are employed on a "what have you done for me lately" basis. Obviously Holland has a far better track record than Garth Snow, but even given the whole Vanek and Moulson fiasco are the trades, signings, and roster management Holland has provided really that much better than good ol Garth? I'd argue they aren't.


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