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-   -   Richards, Knuble and Sim Working Well So Far (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=173378)

swflyers8* 09-20-2005 08:19 PM

Richards, Knuble and Sim Working Well So Far
 
Quote:

Mike Richards, Mike Knuble and Jon Sim have all never played a game wearing the orange and black. None of them had ever played together on the same team before, either, but so far in training camp, a good chemistry is developing between the trio. On Saturday night in London, they comprised the most productive line of the night. Richards posted three assists, Sim scored twice and Knuble added a goal and an assist of his own.


Flyers

MojoJojo 09-21-2005 07:33 AM

Move Primeau to the wing, and I'd be perfectly happy with this as a third line.

John Flyers Fan 09-21-2005 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Move Primeau to the wing, and I'd be perfectly happy with this as a third line.

Primeau will be the last one moved to the wing.

Dr Love 09-21-2005 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Move Primeau to the wing, and I'd be perfectly happy with this as a third line.

Moving Primeau to the wing negatives his value. And I don't see any reason why Knuble and Sim couldn't play well with Primeau.

MojoJojo 09-21-2005 07:54 AM

With Kapanen out a while I think we have to be a little creative. I just hate to see a guy with Richard's talent rot on the fourth line while Carter hits the Gagne-Forsberg jackpot.

Dr Love 09-21-2005 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoJojo
With Kapanen out a while I think we have to be a little creative. I just hate to see a guy with Richard's talent rot on the fourth line while Carter hits the Gagne-Forsberg jackpot.

I agree, but I don't think moving Primeau is the best way to go about that. If you have to move a center to wing, it's going to have to be Handzus.

Jester 09-21-2005 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoJojo
With Kapanen out a while I think we have to be a little creative. I just hate to see a guy with Richard's talent rot on the fourth line while Carter hits the Gagne-Forsberg jackpot.

i think "rot" is a bit too harsh a term for what is going to happen here... for starters, if Richards is actually playing with Knuble... he will NOT be getting awful minutes. he's also going to be getting a lot of PK time i imagine to boot.

look, the goals for Carter and Richards are mildly different. obviously they are trying to develop both into the best players that they can be, but we got to understand the talent evaluation puts Carter into a scoring role and Richards into more of a two-way role. not that Richards isn't going to get his points, but the expectation is that he is going to be a very strong defensive player for this team as well... 4th line, playing solid defense and getting PK time isn't going to "rot" him at all. plus Hitch roles his lines with regularity, especially when what is going to be our "4th line" is going to be as decent as whatever line Richards centers. it's going to be a 3rd or low-tier 2nd line compared to what most of the league is putting out there.

greatwhite101* 09-21-2005 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Move Primeau to the wing, and I'd be perfectly happy with this as a third line.

I would play Richards (Left shot) on the wing instead at least first year of course playing 20 something games at center would benefit him. I would play Sim or Umberger (R shot) on the R wing on the same line at leats 5-10 games and see what he can do. Both Rookies could score 10-15 goals.

I do not think Richards SIm Knuble line is going to fly during Regular season.
Richards will not play all 82 games I think he will get injured and play 60 something games (I hope I am wrong). He was a bit injury prone in Kitcheners not because he is a weak player but because of his (donít take no prisoners) style.

Brad* 09-21-2005 03:43 PM

I'd rather move Handzus to wing as well. Primeau's calling card at this point in his career, is being a shut down center, and moving him to wing would waste that ability. Handzus could still be a 60-point player and good in both ends of the ice if he were moved to the wing, and I think it's a possibility considering how impressive Richards has been during camp and in the pre-season.

Hithcock does roll four lines, but no one here will deny that playing on the fourth line with Brashear will hinder your opportunities to show what you have. I think at some point, if Richards continues to impress like he has so far, he'll get that shot with better players.

Jester 09-21-2005 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad
I'd rather move Handzus to wing as well. Primeau's calling card at this point in his career, is being a shut down center, and moving him to wing would waste that ability. Handzus could still be a 60-point player and good in both ends of the ice if he were moved to the wing, and I think it's a possibility considering how impressive Richards has been during camp and in the pre-season.

Hithcock does roll four lines, but no one here will deny that playing on the fourth line with Brashear will hinder your opportunities to show what you have. I think at some point, if Richards continues to impress like he has so far, he'll get that shot with better players.

well i read that hitch was talking about putting Brash/Zeus together.

nuck 09-22-2005 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
i think "rot" is a bit too harsh a term for what is going to happen here... for starters, if Richards is actually playing with Knuble... he will NOT be getting awful minutes. he's also going to be getting a lot of PK time i imagine to boot.

look, the goals for Carter and Richards are mildly different. obviously they are trying to develop both into the best players that they can be, but we got to understand the talent evaluation puts Carter into a scoring role and Richards into more of a two-way role. not that Richards isn't going to get his points, but the expectation is that he is going to be a very strong defensive player for this team as well... 4th line, playing solid defense and getting PK time isn't going to "rot" him at all. plus Hitch roles his lines with regularity, especially when what is going to be our "4th line" is going to be as decent as whatever line Richards centers. it's going to be a 3rd or low-tier 2nd line compared to what most of the league is putting out there.

Are you sure the goals for these two guys aren't the same? If anything Richards was a slightly better offensive player in Junior and 15 pts in 14 AHL playoff games is about the same scoring rate as 23 points in 21 games. Carter is bigger and sometimes those guys can improve a bit more than smaller players with similar skills, but at this stage in their careers I think their skills are a wash. It might come down to which one puts together a better scoring streak in preseason in deciding who gets top line playing time. I want to see both get a serious shot.

Jester 09-22-2005 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuck
Are you sure the goals for these two guys aren't the same? If anything Richards was a slightly better offensive player in Junior and 15 pts in 14 AHL playoff games is about the same scoring rate as 23 points in 21 games. Carter is bigger and sometimes those guys can improve a bit more than smaller players with similar skills, but at this stage in their careers I think their skills are a wash. It might come down to which one puts together a better scoring streak in preseason in deciding who gets top line playing time. I want to see both get a serious shot.

have you seen them play? i'm not asking that to be a d*ck, i'm just asking.

Carter is the better offensive talent, that isn't to say that Richards isn't going to be a decent to good offensive player, he just doesn't appear to have the pure offensive skills that Carter does. Richards gets a LOT of his points by taking advantage of people because he is such a heady hockey player... those opportunities are less and less present as you go up the talent ladder. I'm not saying he isn't going to score at the NHL level, i just don't have the expectations for him that I do for Carter. the added bonus is that i think Richards is going to develop into an absolute nightmare for opposing teams... he's going to get his points (if he can avg. 60 pts a season and be the defensive player it looks like he's capable of being we are going to have something special), just doesn't strike me as a top-line forward in the NHL.

Carter has an absolutely wicked wrist shot. he barely moves his hands and the thing is a friggin rocket, plus he loves to shoot... he could be an absolute force of nature with a good passer (Forsberg), and absolutely deadly working through the slot on the PP using that wrister.

they are both going to be good, but personally, i think their respective roles are going to be a bit different. Richards trending more towards the Peca/Primeau sphere, and Carter towards more of the offensive mind-set.

both being extremely valuable to a good team.

Larry44 09-22-2005 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
Carter is the better offensive talent, that isn't to say that Richards isn't going to be a decent to good offensive player, he just doesn't appear to have the pure offensive skills that Carter does. Richards gets a LOT of his points by taking advantage of people because he is such a heady hockey player... those opportunities are less and less present as you go up the talent ladder. I'm not saying he isn't going to score at the NHL level, i just don't have the expectations for him that I do for Carter. the added bonus is that i think Richards is going to develop into an absolute nightmare for opposing teams... he's going to get his points (if he can avg. 60 pts a season and be the defensive player it looks like he's capable of being we are going to have something special), just doesn't strike me as a top-line forward in the NHL.

Carter has an absolutely wicked wrist shot. he barely moves his hands and the thing is a friggin rocket, plus he loves to shoot... he could be an absolute force of nature with a good passer (Forsberg), and absolutely deadly working through the slot on the PP using that wrister.

they are both going to be good, but personally, i think their respective roles are going to be a bit different. Richards trending more towards the Peca/Primeau sphere, and Carter towards more of the offensive mind-set.

both being extremely valuable to a good team.

Agreed. The reason a lot of us see Richards producing less on offense is that he's a little slower and smaller than Carter. Smaller guys can thrive, but they are usually really fast, e.g. Sakic, St. Louis. Richards is a good and fast skater, but not top scorer fast. He has all the intangibles and great hands for passing, deflecting shots as well as the fearlessness to stick his nose in the slot and get in fights.

Carter's size and speed make a better arsenal for pure offense. Ideally, Carter leads the team in scoring down the road, with Richards playing the last minute when we're up a goal.....

Hammerwise 09-22-2005 10:59 AM

Have to agree Richards is a keeper, but a guy with carter's size and skill level is a much bigger commodity.

I still can't see Sim cracking lineup but richards handzus and knuble is a good scoring line. (Making it Primeau, radio and savage as 3rd line, not bad until kapanen is back) Sharp-Stevenson-Brash are 4th line.

mikedifr 09-24-2005 12:07 PM

I am saying this based on what has been done in the past, who know if Hitch could get different results, but Handzus and Primeau have both been tried on the wing on other teams and with Primeau he was a lot less effective, and it was a complete disaster with Handzus. I think once Forsberg comes back, Carter may pick it up playing with Forsberg and Gagne. Carter and Forsberg are interchangeable at wing and center. Whoever is better at faceoffs should take the faceoff. There is no need to move Handzus or Primeau to the wing. Hitch seems to be going with pairs of players and the third winger will prob rotate. With Forsberg, we now have a true #1 line, but the other 3 I think are pretty much 2a,b,c. They can be played about equally if Richards keeps playing this well. I would go with the following, pairs

Gagne Forsberg Carter
Knuble Richards ????
Rado Handzus ????
Kapanen Primeau ????

Rotate Sharp, Brashear, Stevenson, Sim across those last 3 lines. Not sure who Savage has or will play with but when Kapanen comes back I am sure he will be back with Primeau.

Handzus made Somik look good so I am sure once they start playing regularly Rado will play pretty well next to him.


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