HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Philadelphia Flyers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Top five NHL rivalries (Flyers vs Debbies #1) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=174201)

donelikedinner 09-23-2005 10:00 AM

Top five NHL rivalries (Flyers vs Debbies #1)
 
found this on the islanders board from foxsports here.

GKJ 09-23-2005 10:08 AM

The #1 rivalry in the NHL IS the Leafs and Seantors and this is a fact.

NyQuil 09-23-2005 10:13 AM

I was about to say.

It's not only a question of the per capita passion for hockey in those two cities, which is obviously very high, and the city pride that runs along with that (particularly amongst Ottawans)

It's more a matter of circumstance, with 4 meetings in the past 5 years in the playoffs, where the hatred truly comes out to play.

It's fair to say that the rivalry was probably one-sided (in Ottawa's perspective) until the repeated playoff clashes created an intensity amongst Torontonians to smack down their provincial pretender. (which they have done very successfully I might add)

Also, with Ottawa's obvious success in the regular season, and Toronto's dominance in the post-season, there is generally a perception that the two teams are usually fairly evenly matched, leading to drawn out and exciting hockey.

Whether or not this rivalry is bigger or smaller than Philly-NJ, I won't comment, because I'm obviously biased. But to see it missing off the list is a bit of an odd phenomenon.

However, if I had to pick one to remove? That'd be tough.

Either Vancouver-Colorado or NYR-NYI, if only because the geographic/regional aspect isn't as strong in the former, and the post-season element isn't as prominent in the latter.

donelikedinner 09-23-2005 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
The #1 rivalry in the NHL IS the Leafs and Seantors and this is a fact.

i've got to ask, where's the factual/tangible proof of this fact? :D

here in ottawa, most leaf fans i know are have a much bigger hate on for the Flyers than the sens in recent years due to the leafs playoffs domination.

Egil 09-23-2005 10:15 AM

Van-Col is the ugly duckling here. One incident does not a rivalry make. Replace it with Ottawa - Toronto, and off you go :)

Jester 09-23-2005 10:19 AM

in all due respect to Toronto/Ottawa... i love watching these games...

but...

10 years of trading the Atlantic title back and forth is pretty intense
(the last two decided by 1 point)... two CF meetings... so on and so forth.

NyQuil 09-23-2005 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelikedinner
here in ottawa, most leaf fans i know are have a much bigger hate on for the Flyers than the sens in recent years due to the leafs playoffs domination.

That's just part and parcel of the Leaf Nation insistence that there is no rivalry with Ottawa. :D

It's an element of their attempted condescension towards their small-town divisonal rivals.

Of course, until Ottawa actually wins a playoff series, there's not much we can say in return.

Seriously though, I understand what you are saying, because in Ottawa we don't see Philly as a rival per se. However the two brawls at the NHL and AHL levels has certainly raised the emotional level a notch.

Jester 09-23-2005 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
Seriously though, I understand what you are saying, because in Ottawa we don't see Philly as a rival per se. However the two brawls at the NHL and AHL levels has certainly raised the emotional level a notch.

well, that's because Havlat is a little b*tch.

donelikedinner 09-23-2005 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
well, that's because Havlat is a little b*tch.

:biglaugh:

NyQuil 09-23-2005 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
10 years of trading the Atlantic title back and forth is pretty intense (the last two decided by 1 point)... two CF meetings... so on and so forth.

Part of what makes the OTT-TOR rivalry a bit of a zoo is the coverage and attention it receives, particularly in Ottawa, and then coverage in Toronto about the coverage in Ottawa.

You have things like:
-an Ottawa sports reporter making comments about Domi hitting his wife, and justly getting fired for it
-an Ottawa city councillor attempting to "ban" Leafs jerseys in the Corel Centre (trying to be "cool" for the voters, gawd!)
-the inevitable bets between mayors, provincial premiers (from Ottawa, works in Toronto)

NyQuil 09-23-2005 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
well, that's because Havlat is a little b*tch.

Don't take it so personally. He also kicked Eric Cairns of the Islanders.

Dogbert* 09-23-2005 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
Part of what makes the OTT-TOR rivalry a bit of a zoo is the coverage and attention it receives, particularly in Ottawa, and then coverage in Toronto about the coverage in Ottawa.

You have things like:
-an Ottawa sports reporter making comments about Domi hitting his wife, and justly getting fired for it
-an Ottawa city councillor attempting to "ban" Leafs jerseys in the Corel Centre (trying to be "cool" for the voters, gawd!)
-the inevitable bets between mayors, provincial premiers (from Ottawa, works in Toronto)

Wasn't the jersey ban part of an effort to help out the food bank? I remember something about Leafs jerseys being allowed in with a donation.

Aren't they also doing a program where people trade their Leafs jerseys for Sens jerseys, and then they send the Leafs jerseys to Toronto orphanages?

FLYLine24* 09-23-2005 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
I was about to say.

It's not only a question of the per capita passion for hockey in those two cities, which is obviously very high, and the city pride that runs along with that (particularly amongst Ottawans)

It's more a matter of circumstance, with 4 meetings in the past 5 years in the playoffs, where the hatred truly comes out to play.

It's fair to say that the rivalry was probably one-sided (in Ottawa's perspective) until the repeated playoff clashes created an intensity amongst Torontonians to smack down their provincial pretender. (which they have done very successfully I might add)

Also, with Ottawa's obvious success in the regular season, and Toronto's dominance in the post-season, there is generally a perception that the two teams are usually fairly evenly matched, leading to drawn out and exciting hockey.

Whether or not this rivalry is bigger or smaller than Philly-NJ, I won't comment, because I'm obviously biased. But to see it missing off the list is a bit of an odd phenomenon.

However, if I had to pick one to remove? That'd be tough.

Either Vancouver-Colorado or NYR-NYI, if only because the geographic/regional aspect isn't as strong in the former, and the post-season element isn't as prominent in the latter.

Not a chance. NYR/NYI still have a HUGE rivalry even with one of the teams not even playoff material(usually rivalries die down when one team is worse then the other..DET/CHI) NYR and NYI hate each other and if you attended a NYI/NYR game at either building you would understand. ;)

NyQuil 09-23-2005 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbert
Wasn't the jersey ban part of an effort to help out the food bank? I remember something about Leafs jerseys being allowed in with a donation.

Aren't they also doing a program where people trade their Leafs jerseys for Sens jerseys, and then they send the Leafs jerseys to Toronto orphanages?

Yeah, my wife traded in her Leafs jersey ;)

We got 2 tickets to see the Lightning and all the jerseys received were donated to Toronto orphanages.

NyQuil 09-23-2005 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYLine88
NYR and NYI hate each other and if you attended a NYI/NYR game at either building you would understand. ;)

OTT and TOR are all hugs and sharing cookies? :dunno:

MiamiScreamingEagles 09-23-2005 10:42 AM

Montreal-Toronto I thought would be a given.

NyQuil 09-23-2005 10:42 AM

On the subject of rivalries, I once made a distinction that there are three categories of rivalry:

Traditional:

These are the rivalries that have been going on for over a decade or two. They may not be current, but they exist because of what happened in the past.

Current:

These are usually playoff series-driven rivalries which can create odd dynamics like Dallas and Edmonton. Also, on-ice antics can create a bit of a rivalry like the Havlat thing or the Bertuzzi thing. A lack of playoff meetings can put a rivalry in a bit of a coma, like Toronto-Montreal who haven't met since 1979.

Regional:

These rivalries are often supported by a pre-existing regional rivalry between two areas or cities.

The ideal rivalry would be one that encapsulates all three.

Many of the current rivalries in the NHL reflect two of these dynamics, i.e.:

-Calgary-Edmonton: traditional, regional
-Ottawa-Toronto: current, regional
-Pittsburgh-Philadelphia: traditional, regional
-Montreal-Toronto: traditional, regional
-Montreal-Boston: traditional, current

Some, just one:

-Dallas-Edmonton: current

donelikedinner 09-23-2005 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
OTT and TOR are all hugs and sharing cookies? :dunno:

OTT fans are weak. I've seen 3 Flyers fans in Ottawa shout down an entire section of sens fans, it was hilarious. Ottawa is still trying to develope its 'hardcore' fan image.

TOR fans are seasoned vets & OTT fans are pre-teens finding themselves. 10 more years and the Battle of Ontario will finally spill over into the stands like: PHI vs NJ, NYI vs NYR, etc....then it will be a true rivalry :yo:

NyQuil 09-23-2005 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelikedinner
10 more years and the Battle of Ontario will finally spill over into the stands like: PHI vs NJ, NYI vs NYR, etc....then it will be a true rivalry :yo:

That's the distinction between a current rivalry and a traditional rivalry, as I made above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelikedinner
OTT fans are weak. I've seen 3 Flyers fans in Ottawa shout down an entire section of sens fans, it was hilarious.

That's some great anecdotal evidence. Thank you.

Jester 09-23-2005 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
Part of what makes the OTT-TOR rivalry a bit of a zoo is the coverage and attention it receives, particularly in Ottawa, and then coverage in Toronto about the coverage in Ottawa.

You have things like:
-an Ottawa sports reporter making comments about Domi hitting his wife, and justly getting fired for it
-an Ottawa city councillor attempting to "ban" Leafs jerseys in the Corel Centre (trying to be "cool" for the voters, gawd!)
-the inevitable bets between mayors, provincial premiers (from Ottawa, works in Toronto)

media coverage a rivarly does not make...

Flyers/Devils games have carried massive weight each and every time for the past 10 years... something that hasn't been true until relatively recent up there. it also has moments like when a friend of mine got to game 7 of the ECF in 2000 and had the usher tell him to be careful, they'd had an "incident" involving a devils fan in that section the night before.

not cracking on the battle of ontario, i'm just saying, "there's a lot of media coverage" means very little to me. players knowing that a top 3 seed is on the line every time two teams meet for 10 years means a ton for a rivalry.

NyQuil 09-23-2005 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
"there's a lot of media coverage" means very little to me

The coverage is a reflection of the status of the event at the time.

There is literally NOTHING else happening in Ottawa during that time. It is the only thing anyone talks about, anywhere. The newspapers have entire sections devoted to it.

I don't think you understand the ubiquitous nature of it. We're not talking about cliques of fans, we're basically talking about the entire population of the city. The car flags alone were enough for Brodeur to comment on it:

"Marty Brodeur had liked the fact the Devils returned home between Games 1 and 2 rather than stay in "a town that's hockey crazy like Ottawa". But yesterday, he admitted enjoying such a climate, as well. "There are more Senators flags on cars here than there are American flags in the States," said Brodeur, who also told a francophone journalist: "In Canada, they know how to do it. You see the (Go Sens Go) signs everywhere. In New Jersey, you don't see anything like that on the highway. I'd like to play one time for a Canadian team in the playoffs, just to be part of the crazy atmosphere."

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam030514/col_brennan-sun.html

Obviously it's a much newer rivalry. But with the NHL reigning supreme with no competitors, there is nothing else to get worked up about.

Anyway, my point wasn't to get into some weird competition but merely to raise and substantiate the original issue which was its omission from the list.

Determining which rivalry is bigger is too difficult to establish because the criteria to evaluate such a thing would have to be agreed upon.

However, there's no denying that NHL hockey is 10 times better when it's a game between rivals.

Kardi 09-23-2005 11:19 AM

NJ vs philly as the top rivalry? :biglaugh:

i dont think many people even cared about the philly vs nj series in the 2004 playoffs
every one was focused on wings vs preds, leafs vs sens (imo the biggest rivalry in the league), flames vs canucks and bruins vs canadiens in the first round imo
but i guess you gotta by a flyers fan to realize the rivalry they have with the devils? :shakehead

PeterSidorkiewicz 09-23-2005 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelikedinner
OTT fans are weak. I've seen 3 Flyers fans in Ottawa shout down an entire section of sens fans, it was hilarious. Ottawa is still trying to develope its 'hardcore' fan image.

TOR fans are seasoned vets & OTT fans are pre-teens finding themselves. 10 more years and the Battle of Ontario will finally spill over into the stands like: PHI vs NJ, NYI vs NYR, etc....then it will be a true rivalry :yo:


Well thats because the 3 Flyers fans probably kept yelling "Please stop beating us" down the entire section.

Also, I will be attending an Ottawa-Philly game this year in Philly, so we'll see how "hardcore" all these fans are :)

SerialSeb 09-23-2005 11:49 AM

TO vs Sens rivalry is too young to be top 5.

But it's geting there in a hurry.

Same for the Van vs Col.

To me of course the greatest rivalry is MTL vs Bos.

It's a homer pick but really let's face it they have hated each other for so long. How can it not be?

Espacially with those 2 major upsets in recent playoff history.

SerialSeb 09-23-2005 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
On the subject of rivalries, I once made a distinction that there are three categories of rivalry:

Traditional:

These are the rivalries that have been going on for over a decade or two. They may not be current, but they exist because of what happened in the past.

Current:

These are usually playoff series-driven rivalries which can create odd dynamics like Dallas and Edmonton. Also, on-ice antics can create a bit of a rivalry like the Havlat thing or the Bertuzzi thing. A lack of playoff meetings can put a rivalry in a bit of a coma, like Toronto-Montreal who haven't met since 1979.

Regional:

These rivalries are often supported by a pre-existing regional rivalry between two areas or cities.

The ideal rivalry would be one that encapsulates all three.

Many of the current rivalries in the NHL reflect two of these dynamics, i.e.:

-Calgary-Edmonton: traditional, regional
-Ottawa-Toronto: current, regional
-Pittsburgh-Philadelphia: traditional, regional
-Montreal-Toronto: traditional, regional
-Montreal-Boston: traditional, current

Some, just one:

-Dallas-Edmonton: current

Good analysis.

Made some valid points!

:clap:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:58 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.