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-   -   Offers for Handzus excluding Edmonton (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=184187)

donelikedinner 10-22-2005 12:12 PM

Offers for Handzus excluding Edmonton
 
Make your best offer for a solid 1st or 2nd line center in Handzus. To make it easier, a 2nd round pick in 2006 can also be included with Zues. Ideally a scoring winger, 1st round pick in 2006 or a solid D prospect and another draft pick would be reasonable.

please, please, no edmonton offers. :teach:

Jaysfanatic* 10-22-2005 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelikedinner
Make your best offer for a solid 1st or 2nd line center in Handzus. To make it easier, a 2nd round pick in 2006 can also be included with Zues. Ideally a scoring winger, 1st round pick in 2006 or a solid D prospect and another draft pick would be reasonable.

please, please, no edmonton offers. :teach:

lol, for Handzus you want a scoring winger, a first round pick or a D prospect....keep dreaming, any deal for Handzus, you'll get a winger in return, that's all you get no one is going to ante up that much for Zeus, as much as I like him, nu-uh

Steve Latin* 10-22-2005 01:19 PM

I'd offer Orpik, but the Flyers are already stacked on the blue line. The fact that the Flyers and Pens are division rivals also complicates things.

How about the Pens second round pick and third round picks in 2006?

Joe T Choker 10-22-2005 01:21 PM

Scott Walker straight up

Liquidrage* 10-22-2005 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic
lol, for Handzus you want a scoring winger, a first round pick or a D prospect....keep dreaming, any deal for Handzus, you'll get a winger in return, that's all you get no one is going to ante up that much for Zeus, as much as I like him, nu-uh


What are you talking about? He's probably about the 20th best center in the game. Is a Selke calibur defensive player. Is just now entering his prime. And doesn't make a ton of money.

To boot, he's one of the most versatile players as well.

He'd fetch a good return if they traded him. Hopefully the won't. He can just play wing with Richards at center like he's done the last couple of games and the problem of lacking a winger is solved.

Blakemen 10-22-2005 01:35 PM

Laraque for Handzus and a second!




... (omg lol)

BruinAddict 10-22-2005 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelikedinner
Make your best offer for a solid 1st or 2nd line center in Handzus. To make it easier, a 2nd round pick in 2006 can also be included with Zues. Ideally a scoring winger, 1st round pick in 2006 or a solid D prospect and another draft pick would be reasonable.

please, please, no edmonton offers. :teach:

1st or 2nd line center? Who are you kidding? He's a checking center, not a scoring one. I can maybe see 2nd line center on a team without much depth at center, but I'd feel sorry for any team with Handzus as their #1 center.

As far as your requests are concerned; can I have some of what you're smoking?

Darth Milbury 10-22-2005 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donelikedinner
Make your best offer for a solid 1st or 2nd line center in Handzus. To make it easier, a 2nd round pick in 2006 can also be included with Zues. Ideally a scoring winger, 1st round pick in 2006 or a solid D prospect and another draft pick would be reasonable.

please, please, no edmonton offers. :teach:

If there is a Handzus in the NHL that is a "solid 1st line center" than there must be at least two Handzus' out there - the 2nd/3rd line guy who plays for the flyers and this first liner that you speak of.

Liquidrage* 10-22-2005 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinAddict
1st or 2nd line center? Who are you kidding? He's a checking center, not a scoring one. I can maybe see 2nd line center on a team without much depth at center, but I'd feel sorry for any team with Handzus as their #1 center.

As far as your requests are concerned; can I have some of what you're smoking?


Here we go again.

IIRC he was the 13th highest scoring center last season. He adds top level defensive play to that. He led one of the best teams in hockey in minutes for forwards during the regular season.

He is not a star. But he is a better center then *most* teams currently have.

If you use #1 to mean only the elite, no, he isn't a #1. But try and name 20 centers better then him in the NHL and you're going to run out of names.

Jaysfanatic* 10-22-2005 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidrage
What are you talking about? He's probably about the 20th best center in the game. Is a Selke calibur defensive player. Is just now entering his prime. And doesn't make a ton of money.

To boot, he's one of the most versatile players as well.

He'd fetch a good return if they traded him. Hopefully the won't. He can just play wing with Richards at center like he's done the last couple of games and the problem of lacking a winger is solved.

:biglaugh: you're in a dream world.

easton122 10-22-2005 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinAddict
1st or 2nd line center? Who are you kidding? He's a checking center, not a scoring one. I can maybe see 2nd line center on a team without much depth at center, but I'd feel sorry for any team with Handzus as their #1 center.

As far as your requests are concerned; can I have some of what you're smoking?

How many teams had a 1st line center that played 82 games and scored 58 points in 03-04? How many of those centers were 6'5'' 220+ pounds and played Selke caliber defense?

You won't see Clarke deal him for much less than what DLD is asking for in this thread. Clarke is in love with big centers and won't let him go for any old top 6 winger like you're suggesting.

Steve Latin* 10-22-2005 01:53 PM

I'd say he's a top 40 center ... he's not a guy that's going to provide a ton of offense, but as a solid defense player his offense is a really nice bonus. He's a good player in the Bobby Holik and the Keith Primeau sense, but he's not going to solve a team's first line needs.

Darth Milbury 10-22-2005 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Here we go again.

IIRC he was the 13th highest scoring center last season. He adds top level defensive play to that. He led one of the best teams in hockey in minutes for forwards during the regular season.

He is not a star. But he is a better center then *most* teams currently have.

If you use #1 to mean only the elite, no, he isn't a #1. But try and name 20 centers better then him in the NHL and you're going to run out of names.

Really? Then why exactly did the Flyers move Hanzdus to the wing to make room for Richards? I guess the 20th best center in the league is not even good enough to play in front of a rookie.

Hanzdus is nowhere near as good as you are suggesting. He has basically been a solid, albiet non-physical, center who scores 40 - 50 points a season. He had a career season last year, but to suggest he is an elite top 20 center (and, no, I am not going to try and make a list of 20 centers who are better, and then argue with you about the eight you don't agree with) is a stretch to say the least.

Handzus is a heck of a valuble player, and every team in the NHL would like to have him. But, he is not even close to be the dominating checking center you are describing here.

And, btw, exactly how many Selkes has this "Selke-caliber" center actually won?

Darth Milbury 10-22-2005 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easton122
How many teams had a 1st line center that played 82 games and scored 58 points in 03-04? How many of those centers were 6'5'' 220+ pounds and played Selke caliber defense?

You won't see Clarke deal him for much less than what DLD is asking for in this thread. Clarke is in love with big centers and won't let him go for any old top 6 winger like you're suggesting.

Again, I ask, if he is "selke caliber" how come he has never won a Selke?

Darth Milbury 10-22-2005 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Latin
I'd say he's a top 40 center ... he's not a guy that's going to provide a ton of offense, but as a solid defense player his offense is a really nice bonus. He's a good player in the Bobby Holik and the Keith Primeau sense, but he's not going to solve a team's first line needs.

Bullseye. :handclap:

SmokeyClause 10-22-2005 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus O' Toole
Scott Walker straight up

That'd certainly attract Clarke's attention. Walks has had 73 points in his past 81 games. He can play on either of the top 3 lines and can be miserable to play against. Would a top 6 winger be what Philly is looking for?

Liquidrage* 10-22-2005 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Really? Then why exactly did the Flyers move Hanzdus to the wing to make room for Richards? I guess the 20th best center in the league is not even good enough to play in front of a rookie.

Your guess is idiotic. Seriously, that's about one of the stupiest things I've ever seen written.

They clicked well together with Handzus playing wing. It says nothing about who is better at center overall. It says that paired together Hitchcock would rather Handzus play the wing as Richards best strength is his passing.



Quote:

Hanzdus is nowhere near as good as you are suggesting. He has basically been a solid, albiet non-physical, center who scores 40 - 50 points a season.
$1.00 and your massive army of imaginary 60+ point centers will get you a bottle of Sprite from a vending machine.

Quote:

He had a career season last year, but to suggest he is an elite top 20 center (and, no, I am not going to try and make a list of 20 centers who are better, and then argue with you about the eight you don't agree with) is a stretch to say the least.
He has a 53 point season, two seasons in the 40's, and the 58 point season last year. Career year? Sure. But not like he blew up and is a one hit wonder. And considering his age he should be getting better.

And I know you wont list 20 better centers. It's because you can't. They don't exist.

Quote:

Handzus is a heck of a valuble player, and every team in the NHL would like to have him. But, he is not even close to be the dominating checking center you are describing here.
Don't put words in my mouth. The league is not full of dominating centers. There are very few of them. I came right out and said he's not an elite center. But you act like the league is full of centers that were getting 50+ points in the old NHL. They weren't.

Quote:

And, btw, exactly how many Selkes has this "Selke-caliber" center actually won?
None. Nor did I say he had won any. I said "calibur", and that is a fair assessment. He's been in the running for a few but has never won one.


Overall, your postings on this is pretty weak.

Maybe when you stop pretending that every team has a Naslund or a Sakic you'll realize that what I wrote was spot on.

Darth Milbury 10-22-2005 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Your guess is idiotic. Seriously, that's about one of the stupiest things I've ever seen written. .

Sigh. And, another of liquidrage's insightful comebacks. I bet all the other kids on the playground are scared of your snappy retorts. :eek:

Moderators, I thought personal insults were not allowed on this board?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidrage
They clicked well together with Handzus playing wing. It says nothing about who is better at center overall. It says that paired together Hitchcock would rather Handzus play the wing as Richards best strength is his passing. .

Oh, so Handzus can't pass eh? And, there are no wingers that have elite playmaking skils?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidrage

$1.00 and your massive army of imaginary 60+ point centers will get you a bottle of Sprite from a vending machine.



He has a 53 point season, two seasons in the 40's, and the 58 point season last year. Career year? Sure. But not like he blew up and is a one hit wonder. And considering his age he should be getting better.

And I know you wont list 20 better centers. It's because you can't. They don't exist. .

I'm not going to do it because it is a pointless task. I'll list 20 centers, and then you'll sit and argue about why you don't agree with 15 of my picks. I've never seen so much as the beginning of a hint of objectivity in your posts, and I see no reason to believe that you are even remotely capable of that sort of fair and balanced comparison now.

And, btw, a few seasons in the 40s and two seasons in the 50s pretty much describes the 40 - 50 point scorer I labeled him as. He has also had a few seasons, which you nicely ignore, in which his offensive production was a bit less impressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidrage

Don't put words in my mouth. The league is not full of dominating centers. There are very few of them. I came right out and said he's not an elite center. But you act like the league is full of centers that were getting 50+ points in the old NHL. They weren't

Saying that he is a top 20 center, and that his abilities are good enough for him to win a major award sound a lot like "elite" to me.


None. Nor did I say he had won any. I said "calibur", and that is a fair assessment. He's been in the running for a few but has never won one.

..

So, in the estimation of a Flyer fan Hanzdus is Selke "calibur" (I assume you mean "caliber"), even though he has never won that award. But, of course, actual facts are not as important as the take of a hometown fan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidrage

Overall, your postings on this is pretty weak.

.

You seem to think that about every poster who doens't think all Flyer players are superstars.

Welcome to the ignore list. I'd encourage other non-Flyer fans on this board to do the same.

Lowetide 10-22-2005 02:55 PM

I love Handzus' game, would love to make a suggestion but will respect the original poster's wishes. I will say that imo Handzus' trade value is higher than some believe.

Darth Milbury 10-22-2005 02:58 PM

Its hard to say. He probably does have nice trade value. I doubt he has #1 center value, but big guys who can skate and play are always a commodity in the NHL.

Habsaku 10-22-2005 02:59 PM

Handzus would fit montreal like a glove, however the only roster player I'd offer is Mike Ribeiro. Add some assets but none from the roster.

sunb 10-22-2005 03:02 PM

I definitely think Michael Handzus is a top 25 - top 30 center in today's NHL.

How many 6'5'' centers are there who can put up 20+ goals and 50+ points in any given season while playing great defense? In addition, this is a smooth-skating, somewhat physical and basically flawless (in any aspect of his game) center who currently in his prime.

He is a respectable #1 center and a great #2 center. He scored 58 points in the last NHL season and was ranked #17 in terms of center scoring. Given that there are 30 teams in the NHL, how is his production not at the level of a top line center? Considering that Handzus also plays a well-rounded game which includes great defense, I'd take Handzus over a couple of centers who outscored him in 2004, which includes guys like Datysuk (68 points), Ribeiro (65 points), Briere (65 points), etc...

If he wasn't an UFA next year, he would be worth a low 1st rounder. But given his UFA status, probably a high 2nd rounder.

DJ Spinoza 10-22-2005 03:06 PM

Handzus is underrated, I think. Maybe due to him becoming more popular and people thinking he is overrated, if that makes sense.

While he is not technically a first line player, I think he could play there and not look out of place if he had good enough linemates. Not the ideal first line center, but a capable fill-in at least.

It's a shame the Pens and Flyers are in the same division and likely won't trade, because the Pens desperately need a center like Handzus who is good two-ways and wins faceoffs. I would offer up Stone and Drew Fata or Lukas Bolf and/or a second round pick for him in a heartbeat.

sunb 10-22-2005 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinAddict
1st or 2nd line center? Who are you kidding? He's a checking center, not a scoring one. I can maybe see 2nd line center on a team without much depth at center, but I'd feel sorry for any team with Handzus as their #1 center.

As far as your requests are concerned; can I have some of what you're smoking?

What are you smoking?

In the last NHL season, Handzus scored 58 points. Ranked #17th in terms of center scoring. Given that there are 30 team in the league, that is the production of a 1st line center.

Considering that he also plays great defense and has a flawless overall game, Handzus makes a great 2nd line center.

I have no idea why you consider him to be merely a "checking center."

Joe Thornton, a #1 center among #1 centers only managed to outscore Handzus by 3 goals and 15 points in the last NHL season.

Art Vandelay 10-22-2005 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
If he wasn't an UFA next year, he would be worth a low 1st rounder. But given his UFA status, probably a high 2nd rounder.

Handzus is signed for 2 more years, he signed a 3-year contract in june 2004.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/news_story/?ID=93855&hubname=nhl-flyers

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
That'd certainly attract Clarke's attention. Walks has had 73 points in his past 81 games. He can play on either of the top 3 lines and can be miserable to play against. Would a top 6 winger be what Philly is looking for?

IMO that's exactly what Philly is looking for.


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