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-   -   The Next Ovechkin (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=192758)

neg marron 11-19-2005 10:21 PM

The Next Ovechkin
 
what current undrafted under 18yr old will be the next ovechkin type player and can there be a russian player in russia who might be better

Heat McManus 11-20-2005 01:44 AM

Russia does not have anybody coming up that can compare to Ovechkin, not atleast in the upcoming draft. Anybody that can compare to this kid will be talked about for at least two years before his draft yr. I've heard some names for the 2007 and 2008 drafts thrown around, but none that have been talked about with the same anticipation as Ovechkin created.

CSKA 11-20-2005 10:36 AM

What about Vasynov ? That kid scored alot in the last U18 tournament.

slumpy43 11-20-2005 12:38 PM

Might not be as complete of a player as Ovechkin his

VanIslander 11-20-2005 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neg marron
can there be a russian player in russia who might be better

Malkin.

But he's already drafted.

Belamor 11-21-2005 12:15 AM

There are a couple very good young players around 13 years old that play in Omsk. I watched them and there are a few that are very talented can play very physical with speed, and great stick handling for their age. and Perezhogins younger brother looks good too, time will tell

Guillaume 11-21-2005 05:46 PM

I don't seen any in the 1988 or 1989 generations right now with the same level of skill and the same type of game. After that, it is impossible to predict. Too many variables are to be taken into account (growth, change in style of play, approach to physical game that comes more around the age of 16 not 13-14, maturity, injuries, etc.)

Vasyunov is not bad at all. I see him more within the top 10-15 of the draft (although it becomes less and less meaningful and plausible without the NHL transfer agreement as the last 2 drafts proved it).

Anyway, if I had 2 cents (or kopeks), I would probably put them on Andrei Kuchin from CSKA Moscow. The guy has been head and shoulders above everybody in his age category (1991) every year.
Another guy I could put a couple of cents on would be Nikita Filatov from CSKA Moscow (1990) who has been dominating (although not as much as Kuchin).
In any case, neither of these players may amount to anything at the end of the day, but it could be interesting to see how they develop.

Not too sure about the Omsk guys(Avtaev, Baskakov, Papushkev or Berdnikov). Usually, the level of competition is not always the greatest in their region. Not excluded though, we will see. really not sure about Perezhogin (Viktor).

Slick Nick 11-22-2005 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume
I don't seen any in the 1988 or 1989 generations right now with the same level of skill and the same type of game. After that, it is impossible to predict. Too many variables are to be taken into account (growth, change in style of play, approach to physical game that comes more around the age of 16 not 13-14, maturity, injuries, etc.)

Vasyunov is not bad at all. I see him more within the top 10-15 of the draft (although it becomes less and less meaningful and plausible without the NHL transfer agreement as the last 2 drafts proved it).

Anyway, if I had 2 cents (or kopeks), I would probably put them on Andrei Kuchin from CSKA Moscow. The guy has been head and shoulders above everybody in his age category (1991) every year.
Another guy I could put a couple of cents on would be Nikita Filatov from CSKA Moscow (1990) who has been dominating (although not as much as Kuchin).
In any case, neither of these players may amount to anything at the end of the day, but it could be interesting to see how they develop.

Not too sure about the Omsk guys(Avtaev, Baskakov, Papushkev or Berdnikov). Usually, the level of competition is not always the greatest in their region. Not excluded though, we will see. really not sure about Perezhogin (Viktor).


Nice reading. I'm wondering though, Viktor Perezhogin? is he in any way related to Sasha Perezhogin?

Guillaume 11-22-2005 10:26 AM

Belamor says he is. he plays with the 1992 Omsk team but he is not among their top scorers.

Slitty 11-22-2005 12:54 PM

Alexander Mayer!

combine81 11-23-2005 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume
I don't seen any in the 1988 or 1989 generations right now with the same level of skill and the same type of game. After that, it is impossible to predict. Too many variables are to be taken into account (growth, change in style of play, approach to physical game that comes more around the age of 16 not 13-14, maturity, injuries, etc.)

Vasyunov is not bad at all. I see him more within the top 10-15 of the draft (although it becomes less and less meaningful and plausible without the NHL transfer agreement as the last 2 drafts proved it).

Anyway, if I had 2 cents (or kopeks), I would probably put them on Andrei Kuchin from CSKA Moscow. The guy has been head and shoulders above everybody in his age category (1991) every year.
Another guy I could put a couple of cents on would be Nikita Filatov from CSKA Moscow (1990) who has been dominating (although not as much as Kuchin).
In any case, neither of these players may amount to anything at the end of the day, but it could be interesting to see how they develop.

Not too sure about the Omsk guys(Avtaev, Baskakov, Papushkev or Berdnikov). Usually, the level of competition is not always the greatest in their region. Not excluded though, we will see. really not sure about Perezhogin (Viktor).

Filatov? Ok, he is a very talented guy. But what about guys from Spartak-90? Ostapchyuk, for example. Or Laktionov? I think he is the cleverest player in his year.

Guillaume 11-23-2005 10:35 AM

Sergei Ostapchuk is very good (I think he even was elected best forward of I forgot which tournament). However, he has not always been dominating every year the same way Filatov has. Ostapchuk is great so far, but I do not believe he is the next ovechkin (assuming there could be another one in the pipes). Same goes for Andrei Loktionov.

Heat McManus 11-24-2005 02:36 AM

I've heard Avtaev has scored some unbelievable goals and is an offensive dynamo. I could be wrong, but i think i remember hearing about him.

combine81 11-24-2005 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume
However, he has not always been dominating every year the same way Filatov has.

How did you come to that thought? Stats?

Fredrik 11-24-2005 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combine81
How did you come to that thought? Stats?

So if you have seen someone live your opinion of them is always right? If someone else have another opinion they cannot have seen them live? That's the way I understand your comments.

combine81 11-24-2005 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredrik
So if you have seen someone live your opinion of them is always right? If someone else have another opinion they cannot have seen them live? That's the way I understand your comments.

No. Of course, it is just my opinion. We discuss and I just want to understand the way my opponent takes info about the player.
If stats - ok. I've got stats for these players and we can continue that way.

Fredrik 11-24-2005 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combine81
No. Of course, it is just my opinion. We discuss and I just want to understand the way my opponent takes info about the player.
If stats - ok. I've got stats for these players and we can continue that way.

Ok that's fine. I never meant to be rude or anything.

BTW, where do you find stats for these players?

combine81 11-24-2005 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredrik
Ok that's fine. I never meant to be rude or anything.

BTW, where do you find stats for these players?

Everything is ok. If my message to Guillaume seemed rude i can apologize.

Stats are my own and official info.

According to the name of the thread, i have a picture of Filatov sitting next to Ovechkin on the bench from "Sport-Express" newspaper. Maybe Guillaume is right and he is the next Ovechkin.
:)

Guillaume 11-24-2005 11:03 AM

I tried to post but it logged me off for some reason. Anyway, no offense taken combine 81. no apology needed or anything.

Just to be clear, I do not pretend to be right. I have been wrong many times in the past (Balmochnykh, Khloptonov, to name a few) and I probably still will be in the future in some instances. I also have been right sometimes.

I am not saying that Filatov is the next Ovechkin, I am simply saying that at this point, it is impossible to really tell. Letís do not forget that we are talking about kids here. As I mentioned earlier, it is totally impossible to predict how a kid will develop more than 2 years away from his draft day (including physically). As I said earlier in the thread, many variables come into play and can completely change a guyís profile (growth, change in style of play, approach to physical game that comes more around the age of 16 not 13-14, maturity, injuries, etc.). Many guys at that age are not even 5í9Ö

At 14-15, you could not really predict for sure that Ovechkin would become the Ovechkin he is at 20. The guy was dominating, but the game played by 14-15 does not have the physical requirements you find later. Anyway, the guy was dominating on the ice and it was reflected stat-wise. The only tournament I can think of where he dominated on the ice and it was not reflected on the stats was the international tournament in Yaroslav in early 2001. Other than that, he dominated every tournament (domestic or international) on the ice (and in consequence stat-wise).

I rely on many things, and stats are one of them. Stats cannot be the only thing, thatís for sure. But you clearly cannot be at every corner of every Russian rink every week-end. Thus, stats are helpful too, especially for kids that age, (Russia championships, Russian championships of regions, regional championships, tournaments like Bezukladnikov and so on). They clearly are not the panacea either. And they change from one year to the other.

I am not saying Filatov is the next Ovechkin. I canít really predict he will be or will not be (by the way, Kuchin was my main point, not Filatov). I am saying he has been dominating and getting great stats (especially at the Moscow championships) despite having teammates who were good but with whom he did not seem to have as much chemistry and may be talent as Ostapchuk-Loktionov-Selyanin (after Loktionov and Selyanin joined Spartak from Khimik). At the end, I have no real clue how good he will be. Ostapchuk who has been great so far might end up better. Same goes for Loktionov. Will they be the next Ovechkin (or even top 5s for that matter)? I donít know. My assessment included their respective stats (and other things), over the past 3-4 years including the Moscow tournaments where Filatov has been the best scorer with a significant margin every time, with Selyanin, Ostapchuk and Loktionov being in the top 5-10 every year. I would be happy to hear another point of view. It is quite fine to have an opinion different than what I say.

MeffyuTGRest: Alexei Avtaev is dominating in the Ural region with so-so teammates on the 1991 Omsk team.

cagney 11-25-2005 04:08 AM

Interesting stuff. Incidentally, I was following a recent hockey tournament online here in the states and Kuchin played in it. He was the second highest scorer, though he had the best ppg ratio. Here's a link...

http://www.pointstreak.com/players/p...ivisionid=6527

Also, I read a comment on a message board where someone said "Kuchin is real deal folks, you heard it hear (sic) last year." I assume by the last part that he's refering to the tour the Red Army team took last year where they beat every midwest based US team they played except for one. Hopefully his scouting is better than his grammar. :D

combine81 11-25-2005 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume
I tried to post but it logged me off for some reason. Anyway, no offense taken combine 81. no apology needed or anything.

Just to be clear, I do not pretend to be right. I have been wrong many times in the past (Balmochnykh, Khloptonov, to name a few) and I probably still will be in the future in some instances. I also have been right sometimes.

I am not saying that Filatov is the next Ovechkin, I am simply saying that at this point, it is impossible to really tell. Letís do not forget that we are talking about kids here. As I mentioned earlier, it is totally impossible to predict how a kid will develop more than 2 years away from his draft day (including physically). As I said earlier in the thread, many variables come into play and can completely change a guyís profile (growth, change in style of play, approach to physical game that comes more around the age of 16 not 13-14, maturity, injuries, etc.). Many guys at that age are not even 5í9Ö

At 14-15, you could not really predict for sure that Ovechkin would become the Ovechkin he is at 20. The guy was dominating, but the game played by 14-15 does not have the physical requirements you find later. Anyway, the guy was dominating on the ice and it was reflected stat-wise. The only tournament I can think of where he dominated on the ice and it was not reflected on the stats was the international tournament in Yaroslav in early 2001. Other than that, he dominated every tournament (domestic or international) on the ice (and in consequence stat-wise).

I rely on many things, and stats are one of them. Stats cannot be the only thing, thatís for sure. But you clearly cannot be at every corner of every Russian rink every week-end. Thus, stats are helpful too, especially for kids that age, (Russia championships, Russian championships of regions, regional championships, tournaments like Bezukladnikov and so on). They clearly are not the panacea either. And they change from one year to the other.

I am not saying Filatov is the next Ovechkin. I canít really predict he will be or will not be (by the way, Kuchin was my main point, not Filatov). I am saying he has been dominating and getting great stats (especially at the Moscow championships) despite having teammates who were good but with whom he did not seem to have as much chemistry and may be talent as Ostapchuk-Loktionov-Selyanin (after Loktionov and Selyanin joined Spartak from Khimik). At the end, I have no real clue how good he will be. Ostapchuk who has been great so far might end up better. Same goes for Loktionov. Will they be the next Ovechkin (or even top 5s for that matter)? I donít know. My assessment included their respective stats (and other things), over the past 3-4 years including the Moscow tournaments where Filatov has been the best scorer with a significant margin every time, with Selyanin, Ostapchuk and Loktionov being in the top 5-10 every year. I would be happy to hear another point of view. It is quite fine to have an opinion different than what I say.

MeffyuTGRest: Alexei Avtaev is dominating in the Ural region with so-so teammates on the 1991 Omsk team.

Everything you've written is right. we cannot know how a kid will develop more than 2 years away from his draft day. And we can just rely on stats or what we see during different tournaments.

Filatov doesn't have such teammates as Ostapchyuk ( plays with Chernov and Lesser) does. Maybe only Kugryshev (scores a lot). But i can imagine Spartak-90 without Ostapchyuk cause there are such players as Laktionov, Selyanin (my favourite one but this season he doesn't look good), Chernov. CSKA-90 without Filatov is not a real one. He is a symbol of his team. As i know sponsor of Spartak-90 tried to get Filatov this summer but he stayed in his team.

Stats of Ostap and Filatov:

01/02 Filatov Ostap
32games(57g+37a) 31(51+25) (played in Dynamo)
02/03 31(48+29) 32(39+15)
03/04 28 (35+22) 28 (30+12)
04/05 28 (40+38) 25 (42+35) (3 games played for Sp.89 - 3 (3+0))

This season after 11 games
12+11 14+9

Ostap is one of the best scorers in Junior league also (7 games (7+2))

Guillaume 11-25-2005 09:54 AM

I didn' tknow they tried to get Filatov. Intersting.
To the credit of Ostapchuk and Loktionov, they have fared well in the national tournaments whereas Filatov was alternating one great tournamnet with one decent tournament. I believe Loktionov was elected MVP of the recent russian championship of regions for the 1990 generation in Kazan despite scoring something like only 3 points.


The thing about the 1991 tournament in the US is interesting.

combine81 11-25-2005 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume
I didn' tknow they tried to get Filatov. Intersting.
To the credit of Ostapchuk and Loktionov, they have fared well in the national tournaments whereas Filatov was alternating one great tournamnet with one decent tournament. I believe Loktionov was elected MVP of the recent russian championship of regions for the 1990 generation in Kazan despite scoring something like only 3 points.


The thing about the 1991 tournament in the US is interesting.

Yes, Laktionov was announced as the best forward of the tournament with 3 points (2+1).

Kaizer 11-25-2005 04:31 PM

There was info via RTR-Sport News about international tournament for 1991 born players in Moscow ... CSKA-91 team has won this tournament with 5-1 win in final game against team from Toronto (or something ;) ) as I understand captain of 1991 team Kuchin scored hat-trick in the final gameand was interviewed after it.. nice person ... looks like a leader and don't afraid camera from National channel.

BTW, There were Tretiak and Fetisov ;)

Slay 11-25-2005 06:37 PM

Kaizer, you beat me on it :) It was Tretyak Cup. Here the videoreport by RTR-Sport News: http://rapidshare.de/files/8162472/t..._2005.wmv.html
By the way the final game will be shown at Sunday.


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