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-   -   Rangers Team Speed (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=19507)

John Flyers Fan 10-13-2003 09:10 AM

Rangers Team Speed
 
It seems to be en vogue to now say that the reason the Rangers are so bad is because they're too slow.

Kovalev - good skater
Nedved - good skater
Hlavac - average
Lindros - good for a guy his size
Carter - good skater
Rucinsky - average
Holik - not great, but not going to hurt you
Lundmark - good skater
Messier - not what he once was, but still at least average
Barnaby - good skater
Simon - below average
Poti - good skater
Kaspar - average
de Vries - average or slightly above
Malakhov - good skater
Mironov - decent
Purinton - below average

Not the speed of the players, but the desire of the players to get where they need to be. Being the first one to the puck, and willing to sacrifice taking a hit etc.

Now I only saw parts of the Wild game and none of the BJ's game, so not sure if this is an issue or not, but guessing it is. Passing & transition game. Quaility passes hit players in flight and make them look even faster than they are. Poor passes or slow puck movement and players look slower than they are, because instead of movng, there is to much stopping and not enough motion

NYR469 10-13-2003 09:24 AM

speed and quickness can be totally different things. and a big part of quickness is being smart, reading plays, knowing where to be etc...

so a guy could outskate someone in a race but if they aren't quick to react they will get beat to the puck

_P_ 10-13-2003 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan

Kovalev - good skater
Nedved - good skater
Hlavac - average
Lindros - good for a guy his size
Carter - good skater
Rucinsky - average
Holik - not great, but not going to hurt you
Lundmark - good skater
Messier - not what he once was, but still at least average
Barnaby - good skater
Simon - below average
Poti - good skater
Kaspar - average
de Vries - average or slightly above
Malakhov - good skater
Mironov - decent
Purinton - below average

what a waste of time

Davisian 10-13-2003 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _P_
what a waste of time

Not really.. He put down on a post what many of us brought up as an issue in the offseason..

It's the main problem I had with the signings of Simon, Rosie and Hlavac.. You can make pros and cons on each, but none of them provide the speed infusion needed on this team after last year, which was the most obvious need, this side of a defensive defenseman (or two) that Sather failed to address..

Vito Andolini 10-13-2003 12:59 PM

I don't think the indivual players on this team are slow at t'all. People like Leetch, Kovalev, Poti, and last year Bure are some of the elite skaters in the league. What we don't have is hunger. The players on this team are not willing to do the things that it takes to win. They won't out hustle, out hit, or out think their opponents cause they simply don't really care. They think they are somehow better than other teams cause of how much talent is in the locker room. That is the problem, and it isn't going to go away by making them work on skating in practice. Their team slowness isn't about slow players, its about lazy players.

It's the same thing as every other year, when our guys want to show up (whether it be for a shift, or a period) they look like a totally different team, they skate fast, take the iniative and act...but when they don't show up they look slow, tired and reactive.

The only cure I see is to inject youth into the line-up and dump the dead weight (probably more than half the team).

TKLOOCH22 10-13-2003 02:49 PM

IMO, a lack of youth contributes to the seemingly lack of speed. Not having any fresh legs or legs that have jump to their strides makes it seem like guys are lagging.

Teams like MIN with Burns, Bouchard and Brandner and CBS with Nash and Fritsche seem like their faster, but those young guys make it seem so.

I mean, our only young player is Lundmark and he's even a sophomore.

Barnaby 10-13-2003 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKLOOCH22
IMO, a lack of youth contributes to the seemingly lack of speed. Not having any fresh legs or legs that have jump to their strides makes it seem like guys are lagging.

Teams like MIN with Burns, Bouchard and Brandner and CBS with Nash and Fritsche seem like their faster, but those young guys make it seem so.

I mean, our only young player is Lundmark and he's even a sophomore.

I disagree. You can be 30 and be a heck of alot faster then someone who's 20. Age doesn't mean a thing in this case. Messier is old and he could outskate Richard Scott. Nedved could outskate 2/3 if not more of Hartford whos full of young guys. I think the Rangers problem is going into the play hard and sacrficing themselves to make the play. I think that can also be contagious.... if Lindros starts throwing his body around and taking the hit in order to get to the puck first then I think you'll see other players following suit.

FACEMAN 10-13-2003 03:31 PM

we don't have anyone who will skate through a brick wall to get a loose puck except maybe Holik.

no one is tenacious like the 93-97 Graves, Yorkie, Larmer etc. When those guys skated for loose pucks they usually got it or came away with it.

Example: of speed not being everything. Devo was the fastest ranger. How many times did he come out of a corner or battle for a puck??? Never he was afraid of his own shadow last year.

JCProdigy 10-13-2003 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Passing & transition game. Quaility passes hit players in flight and make them look even faster than they are. Poor passes or slow puck movement and players look slower than they are, because instead of movng, there is to much stopping and not enough motion

That right there is the most important part of your post. The passing on this team is atrocious and has been atrocious for some time and good passing means everything when it comes to using team speed on breakout patterns. I can't come up with a reason why the passing is so bad, what with all the talented passers on the team, other then a lack of chemistry or knowing where the other players are gonna be. Of course also laziness plays a factor.

Edge 10-13-2003 04:01 PM

oh stop you guys, what he said is perfectly valid and and there isnt a player on there he wasnt in the neighborhood on.

cmon i dont always agree with him but he isnt off on this one.

i do agree though that the issue isnt speed so much as it is quickness. i mean a speed skater is fast but he might not be the quickest player. the rangers are unable to play because they dont have their heads in a game. i mean they could have a team of guys who can go 0 to 60 in 4 seconds and they still might not be quick of those arent thinking while they play.

John Flyers Fan 10-13-2003 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapa999
Did you take those stats right out of a video game?


Tell me which players I was wrong on. I may have been slightly off on a player or two, but as a general rule the Rangers aren't overly slow. Not the fastest team in the NHL by any stretch, but not one of the slowest either.

Brooklyn Ranger 10-13-2003 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FACEMAN
we don't have anyone who will skate through a brick wall to get a loose puck except maybe Holik.

no one is tenacious like the 93-97 Graves, Yorkie, Larmer etc. When those guys skated for loose pucks they usually got it or came away with it.

Example: of speed not being everything. Devo was the fastest ranger. How many times did he come out of a corner or battle for a puck??? Never he was afraid of his own shadow last year.

When was the last time Holik played with enough passion to fight for a loose puck?

Also, Dvorak didn't lack heart. He played hard every shift and he did back check. He also wasn't afraid to take a hit to make a play. He wasn't the type of player that the Rangers needed, but he's a solid NHLer.

Trottier 10-13-2003 07:51 PM

Lack of speed, lack of effort (isn't that excuse getting worn out?). Take your pick.

The Ranger D corp last season struck me as slow; the first two games this season, their forwards were outskated by their opponents, resulting in several key goals.

Call it what you will (I happen to think it is lack of overall team speed). Bottom line, they are losing the battles to the puck.

Through two games, that is.

Potter 10-14-2003 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapa999
yes, quickness and also how often the players use their speed to either make plays, get back on defense, etc. Younger players tend to hussle more often, while veterans are taking it easy trying to conserve their energy. And our team lacks aggression.

shapa thats one of the most ridiculous generalizations ive ever heard (even though most generalizations are stupid to begin with). that has about as much truth to it as that idiot women's golfer (stephenson) who said that "asians" are killing the LPGA.

Barnaby 10-14-2003 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potter
that idiot women's golfer (stephenson) who said that "asians" are killing the LPGA.

.... womens sports are a joke anyway ;)

True Blue 10-14-2003 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapa999
obviously there are always exceptions, but for the most parts it is true, like it or not.

Can someone ask this clown how players like Modano, Guerin, Shanahan, Chellios, Nieds, Roenick and all other veterans on other teams fit into his description of how veterans do not hustle as much as rookies.

Bure9* 10-14-2003 11:25 AM

Shappa, how can players like Modano, Guerin, Shanahan, Chellios, Nieds, Roenick and all other veterans on other teams fit into your description of how veterans do not hustle as much as rookies?

John Flyers Fan 10-14-2003 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bure9
Shappa, how can players like Modano, Guerin, Shanahan, Chellios, Nieds, Roenick and all other veterans on other teams fit into your description of how veterans do not hustle as much as rookies?

:lol: :lol:

True Blue 10-14-2003 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bure9
Shappa, how can players like Modano, Guerin, Shanahan, Chellios, Nieds, Roenick and all other veterans on other teams fit into your description of how veterans do not hustle as much as rookies?

Thanks

Edge 10-14-2003 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shapa999
yes, quickness and also how often the players use their speed to either make plays, get back on defense, etc. Younger players tend to hussle more often, while veterans are taking it easy trying to conserve their energy. And our team lacks aggression.

depends on the veterans. now if we are talking about the rangers.....

anyways there are many vets out there who bust their @$$ and try hard every shift. they might not be "speed demons" but a smart player can often be quicker than a fast player.

but why would they sign here? this team is a joke. so you can imagine who we get most of the time.


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