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-   -   Is Yammie coming home? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=20069)

kutdacheez 10-15-2003 10:37 AM

Is Yammie coming home?
 
Very seldom do you see me put forth a rumor unless it's a known joke. BUT, this one is starting to pick up some steam.
This is all hearsay mind you . . . but from some pretty good sources that have said in the past to me: "See, didn't I tell you." So take it for what's it's worth, here goes.

Ted Leonsis and George McPhee have tried to unload Jagr and his contract everywhere. To no avail. Talks are finished with the Rangers and with Detroit but the goal (set by Leonsis) is to move Jagr, no matter what.

Here's where the major "holy, mackerel Andy" comes in . . . the deal was so much going down that Washington management told Jagr he was gone, for sure. Jagr so much believed this because the word came from Leonsis, McPhee and Jagr's agent he either sold his house, where he lived (close to Bondra) or just didn't renew his rental contract. Sold all of his furniture and personal belongings and prepared for a move that never took place. The rumor is that it was "so sure" that he already put money down on a place in NYC.

In an interview with Paul Hunter of the Toronto Star, yesterday . . . Jagr agreed. In the article Jagr was quoted: "I had nothing in Washington, I stayed in a hotel room the last month. But it's a business. I understand that. It's a lot easier for me to deal with it. I've got no family, I've got no kids. I don't worry about too much. It would be kind of sad but life goes on. If they trade me, I'll have to play for another team."
Also something interesting in the Toronto Star article was this: something motivating Jaromir Jagr this season is his desire to help 19-year-old centre Boyd Gordon, in much the same way that Mario Lemieux helped him break into the league when he arrived in Pittsburgh as a teenager 13 years ago. "He's a good kid and he's going to be a great player in my opinion," Jagr said.

Kind of interesting because the hot-thing rumor is that the Washington Capitals have very recently opened up talks with the Penguins in regard to trading Jagr back to Pittsburgh and that talk has leaked out to a few people. Jagr has talked about it to some of his teammates and to Cassidy and his attitude is not that of what someone would like to have in their employ at this moment. It is becoming very uncomfortable in the dressing room, on the ice but especially in team meetings were Jagr has apparently made a few comments about having to sell his home and furniture and is questioning Capitals management team for telling he and his agent it was a done deal when apparently it never was close to going down. Let alone all the jokes made when anything about team play and the future comes up.

Anyhow, back to the rumor to the Penguins . . . it has been stated that Jagr would be traded back to the Penguins for various combinations such as Kris Beech, Michal Sivek, Michal Rozsival and a high Penguin draft choice in 2005. Other names mentioned (in place of those) were Dick Tarnstrom, and the draft rights to Noah Welch. Washington would also pick up $6 million of Jagr's contract this season, plus $5, $3 and $3 over the remaining years.

To add to this rumor I include this web site where some real estate organization was put on ready to get the house ready for occupancy.

http://www2.county.allegheny.pa.us/RealEstate/General.asp?Name=Jagr&SingleResult=True&CurrBloLot =0669D00092000000
sory about the link . . . try http://www2.county.allegheny.pa.us/R...ate/Search.asp
and key in "Jagr"
I'd give you the sources of this rumor but you wouldn't be able to handle it.

~Kutdacheez~

Don'tcry4mejanhrdina 10-15-2003 10:49 AM

I don't thimk there is any chance that Jagr is coming back to Pittsburgh, and I don't think most fans would want him back. He wanted to get traded out of Pittsburgh and he got his wish. How does he like it now?

officeglen 10-15-2003 10:49 AM

If you click on the tabs of the same county site, you will see that Jagr has owned this property since September 20, 1994.

See: County records - Jagr's place

Click on image for house picture.

kutdacheez 10-15-2003 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mario66
I don't thimk there is any chance that Jagr is coming back to Pittsburgh, and I don't think most fans would want him back. He wanted to get traded out of Pittsburgh and he got his wish. How does he like it now?

I'm not trying to justify it or raltionalize it . . . I'm just passing the rumor on.

kutdacheez 10-15-2003 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by officeglen
If you click on the tabs of the same county site, you will see that Jagr has owned this property since September 20, 1994.

See: County records - Jagr's place

Click on image for house picture.

The (maybe nothing) key is . . . he sold his place north of Washington, DC on a trade rumor but hasn't sold his home in Pittsburgh for two years since his trade. Coincidence? Maybe.

But interesting none the less.

Trottier 10-15-2003 11:02 AM

Everything else aside, Pittsburgh would likely be the best place for Jagr to regain his desire and magic.

Fans wouldn't want him back...until he started playing like the Jagr of old (assuming he could).

One MAJOR flaw in this speculation: even if the Caps were to pay $6M, $5M, $3M and $3M over the remainder of his contract, the Pens would be adding a lot of $alary to their payroll. There is no indication whatsoever that they are prepared to do so.

Jag68Sid87 10-15-2003 11:08 AM

This falls under the category of "too good to be true" for this Pens/Jagr fan.

Say it IS so.

Big McLargehuge 10-15-2003 11:09 AM

unless the Caps are willing to pay for him...I don't see it.

And the Caps would get even less than the Pens got for him if, and that is a gigantic if, a trade were to happen...that or Straka.

Freudian 10-15-2003 12:11 PM

This doesn't make any sense. Even if Washinton picks up a lot of salary, Jagr would still eat up 1/3 of their player budget. And they would have to give up the players that can help them in 3-4 years time for a 30+ guy?

Penguins would be absolutely insane to do it. They have already done the hardest part of rebuilding and tearing that down just to start from scratch again in a few years would be nuts.

The only way I can see anything like this happening is that the team is moving cities and will have a much healthier economic climate and would need a franchise player post-Mario. But even then Jagr is a poor fit. Why would he want to come back to a Pengiun team that has very small similarites to the ones he played on?

Trottier 10-15-2003 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian
...And they would have to give up the players that can help them in 3-4 years time for a 30+ guy?

Age bias alert! :p

Agree on the $ issue, as stated previously. But so what if the guy is over 30? You do not rebuild by turning the entire team over to 20 y/os. If Mario wasn't owner, would you want to get rid of him? If the Avs offered Forsberg (and paid his contract) would you not want him? After all, they are 30+.

Yes, the team won't likely be highly competitive for several years, at which time Jagr will be at the end of his contract. So what? Before you can win big, you have to win small, and adding a world-class talent, enigma that he is, helps in that regard.

Despite his flaws, Jagr should not be grouped together with just any 30+ y/o player. Nor should a rebuilding team shy away from ANY veterans.

(Patrick obviously knows as much, given that he has mixed some vets into his roster.)

Jagr back to the Pens isn going to happen, but not because of his "advanced" age.

PensFan68 10-15-2003 01:15 PM

I still like Jagr and wouldn't mind him coming back, but I just don't see it happening. I don't think we have the money to bring him back, and I don't want to give up all that much for him. I think he'd play better back here with Mario and all, but why would we trade back two guys we got for him, plus a d-man that was better than Lupascuk? Not too mention, I definately don't want to see any 1st round picks going(don't know exactly what "high" means), or Noah Welch.

Enoch 10-15-2003 01:47 PM

It is interesting to point out that Jagr never had below 95 for the Pens.

kutdacheez 10-15-2003 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trottier
One MAJOR flaw in this speculation: even if the Caps were to pay $6M, $5M, $3M and $3M over the remainder of his contract, the Pens would be adding a lot of $alary to their payroll. There is no indication whatsoever that they are prepared to do so.

If I felt that was such as major flaw in the rumor I woudn't have passed it on.
How did they come up with the extra $5 million for Mario's salary boost when there was no indication there was any money to do so?

kutdacheez 10-15-2003 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian
This doesn't make any sense. Even if Washinton picks up a lot of salary, Jagr would still eat up 1/3 of their player budget. And they would have to give up the players that can help them in 3-4 years time for a 30+ guy?

Personally, a five million dollar expense for Jagr if Jagr returns to be the player he was when he left isn't a problem for the Pens . . . especially if it puts bodies into the seats. At least it shouldn't be. But IMHO the rumor starts from the Capitals side where Ted Leonsis is insisting that their budget be cut to $42 million. I think it's at $50 million right now. They can't move Jagr anywhere without absorbing some of his salary. At no one will do the trade without dumping one of there high priced superstars in return. Leonsis has himself in a catch-22. Which is good because he put himself there. They can sellout the seat in the MCI Center even during the playoffs. The only way to cut costs to to dump Jagr. And get players who will play at the AHL level for a year to make up the difference.
Quote:

Penguins would be absolutely insane to do it. They have already done the hardest part of rebuilding and tearing that down just to start from scratch again in a few years would be nuts.
If you think Eastwood, Berehowsky, Holtzinger, Buchberger,McKenna, Bergevin are part of a youth movement? Anyhow, maybe those players mention weren't the ones maybe they were some others. Insane to do it, maybe not.
Quote:

The only way I can see anything like this happening . . .
So the Penguins would be absolutely insane to do it but you think there might be a reason yourself . . . LOL.

Freudian 10-15-2003 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutdacheez
If you think Eastwood, Berehowsky, Holtzinger, Buchberger,McKenna, Bergevin are part of a youth movement? Anyhow, maybe those players mention weren't the ones maybe they were some others. Insane to do it, maybe not.

Those are not the players Caps will be asking for. The first post stated "it has been stated that Jagr would be traded back to the Penguins for various combinations such as Kris Beech, Michal Sivek, Michal Rozsival and a high Penguin draft choice in 2005.". Which means Penguins will be stuck with Fleury, Jagr, Eastwood, Berehowsky, Holtzinger, Buchberger,McKenna, Bergevin. Not very attractive, is it? Penguins future is the young guys and trading away them and picks for nostalgic reasons is crazy.

Look at the Avs, Sens, Detroit. They built the foundation to where they are today by being horrible for a number of years. Ie where Pittsburgh is right now. If Senators would have traded away Redden, Hossa, Havlat 4-5 years ago for some older proven talent they wouldn't be where they are today.

The older guys Penguins have now are just temporary. They are cheap and is buying time for the organization. It's not like anyone believes they will make a huge difference either way.

flyercide 10-15-2003 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trottier
One MAJOR flaw in this speculation: even if the Caps were to pay $6M, $5M, $3M and $3M over the remainder of his contract,

Washington will eat 17 million bucks to get rid of him? My god.. think about that. I'd say thats the major flaw in this rumor ;) & is the reason there is no way this deal could happen. I think it would be great for Pittsburgh to get him back but I just don't see it happening.

Trottier 10-15-2003 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutdacheez
If I felt that was such as major flaw in the rumor I woudn't have passed it on.
How did they come up with the extra $5 million for Mario's salary boost when there was no indication there was any money to do so?

Your response conveys defensiveness. No need to be, at all. After all, whether it comes to pass or not, at this point in time it is just a rumor.

I simply don't think that the Pens or most anyone these days wants to add Jagr-like money (even with the Caps kicking in $17M, an astronomical number, as noted by Flyercide), at least not at this point in the season. You do. Difference of opinion, and I respect your's.

Put it this way: if the Pen's were able to commit to Jagr's contract, there certainly would be a lot of raised eyebrows. It flies in the face of why they moved both him and Kovalev in the first place.

c-carp 10-15-2003 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutdacheez
Very seldom do you see me put forth a rumor unless it's a known joke. BUT, this one is starting to pick up some steam.
This is all hearsay mind you . . . but from some pretty good sources that have said in the past to me: "See, didn't I tell you." So take it for what's it's worth, here goes.

Ted Leonsis and George McPhee have tried to unload Jagr and his contract everywhere. To no avail. Talks are finished with the Rangers and with Detroit but the goal (set by Leonsis) is to move Jagr, no matter what.

Here's where the major "holy, mackerel Andy" comes in . . . the deal was so much going down that Washington management told Jagr he was gone, for sure. Jagr so much believed this because the word came from Leonsis, McPhee and Jagr's agent he either sold his house, where he lived (close to Bondra) or just didn't renew his rental contract. Sold all of his furniture and personal belongings and prepared for a move that never took place. The rumor is that it was "so sure" that he already put money down on a place in NYC.

In an interview with Paul Hunter of the Toronto Star, yesterday . . . Jagr agreed. In the article Jagr was quoted: "I had nothing in Washington, I stayed in a hotel room the last month. But it's a business. I understand that. It's a lot easier for me to deal with it. I've got no family, I've got no kids. I don't worry about too much. It would be kind of sad but life goes on. If they trade me, I'll have to play for another team."
Also something interesting in the Toronto Star article was this: something motivating Jaromir Jagr this season is his desire to help 19-year-old centre Boyd Gordon, in much the same way that Mario Lemieux helped him break into the league when he arrived in Pittsburgh as a teenager 13 years ago. "He's a good kid and he's going to be a great player in my opinion," Jagr said.

Kind of interesting because the hot-thing rumor is that the Washington Capitals have very recently opened up talks with the Penguins in regard to trading Jagr back to Pittsburgh and that talk has leaked out to a few people. Jagr has talked about it to some of his teammates and to Cassidy and his attitude is not that of what someone would like to have in their employ at this moment. It is becoming very uncomfortable in the dressing room, on the ice but especially in team meetings were Jagr has apparently made a few comments about having to sell his home and furniture and is questioning Capitals management team for telling he and his agent it was a done deal when apparently it never was close to going down. Let alone all the jokes made when anything about team play and the future comes up.

Anyhow, back to the rumor to the Penguins . . . it has been stated that Jagr would be traded back to the Penguins for various combinations such as Kris Beech, Michal Sivek, Michal Rozsival and a high Penguin draft choice in 2005. Other names mentioned (in place of those) were Dick Tarnstrom, and the draft rights to Noah Welch. Washington would also pick up $6 million of Jagr's contract this season, plus $5, $3 and $3 over the remaining years.

To add to this rumor I include this web site where some real estate organization was put on ready to get the house ready for occupancy.

http://www2.county.allegheny.pa.us/RealEstate/General.asp?Name=Jagr&SingleResult=True&CurrBloLot =0669D00092000000
sory about the link . . . try http://www2.county.allegheny.pa.us/R...ate/Search.asp
and key in "Jagr"
I'd give you the sources of this rumor but you wouldn't be able to handle it.

~Kutdacheez~

Why would the Pens even want him back?, The only reason that I can see is that they arent really giving much to get him and maybe going back to where he had the best years of his career would snap him out of his funk or whatever you want to call it.

Jag68Sid87 10-15-2003 08:11 PM

Obviously,
if Jagr returns to Pittsburgh it's on their terms, not the Caps. In other words, it'd have to be a case where Leonsis cannot find anyone else to dump Jagr to, and the latter has totally worn out his welcome. Let's face it, Jagr's an outsider in that organization right now and arguably has always been.

As for the argument not to trade the youth, personally I believe the likes of Sivek, Beech and even Kraft have no future in Pittsburgh. They've received opportunities to make an impact and haven't seized it. Knowing how impatient the Pens have been in the past, chances are those three will need a chance of scenery to fulfill whatever promise they still have. The other players mentioned (Welch, Rozsival, Tarnstrom and a high pick in 2005) are a little more tricky. However, to get a player of Jagr's caliber back playing next to Mario is certainly worth two of those assets, though I would try hard not to trade any future draft picks at this point.

Anyways, it probably won't happen but it would be in the best interests of everyone involved if it did occur: The NHL, the Pens, the Caps, the fans and Jagr himself. Everybody wins.

kutdacheez 10-16-2003 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trottier
Your response conveys defensiveness. No need to be, at all. After all, whether it comes to pass or not, at this point in time it is just a rumor.

No defensiveness at all. And I know it is just a rumor. But one of the people passing it is the same person who brought up the Jagr's going to the Rangers or Capitals two years ago. Way before it hit the rumor hit the fan.

Quote:

I simply don't think that the Pens or most anyone these days wants to add Jagr-like money (even with the Caps kicking in $17M, an astronomical number, as noted by Flyercide), at least not at this point in the season. You do. Difference of opinion, and I respect your's.
What I've got back from another person is that the "public" release of information by the Leonsis/McPhee regime has brought so much "joking" about it in the dressing room that the entire situation is out of control. Jagr comes to work like a mill-worker carrying his lunch-box ready to put in his eight hour shift. You do have to admit that if your boss was taking it public that he's dumping you . . . it would be real tough getting motivated about your company.

Quote:

Put it this way: if the Pen's were able to commit to Jagr's contract, there certainly would be a lot of raised eyebrows. It flies in the face of why they moved both him and Kovalev in the first place.
That's why it makes such a good rumor.

FerrisRox 10-16-2003 08:58 PM

I can't believe people are responding to this thread like this is a legitimate rumour.

This is an absurd fabrication by the original poster.

Yeah, the Capitals are going to trade him, and eat $17 million in the process.

This summer, they nearly moved him and didn't have to eat dollar one, but now, a few months later, they've elected to eat $17 million.

Yeah, that'll happen.

And just so their fans are really furious, not only do they plan to eat all of that salary and dump the team's best player, but on top of it, they are going to pay $17 millon for Jagr to play ON A DIVISION RIVALS ROSTER.

Cause that makes a lot of sense.

And, they are going to send him back to the original team they acquired him from, so they come out looking even worse in the process.

They've also cleverly decided to move him for a handful of players that will have minimal impact in the near future, so as to not just throw away millions of dollars, but also to NOT IMPROVE the club while they are at it.

The Penguins are so cash-strapped that they couldn't afford to qualify players like Joel Bouchard and Shawn Heins, but they've managed to free up an extra $5 million a season to pay Jaromir Jargr. After much sacrifice in terms of starting a rebuilding process, they've decided now to throw it all away to bring back Jaromir Jagr.

Oh, and of course, even though Washington (for reasons unknown by the way --- well, for reason's of convinience for this moronic 'rumour') has decided to eat the monumental sum of $17 million, no other team stepped forward to make a better offer then Dick Tarnstrom (a waiver pick up) and a bunch of mid-range prospects.

Seems hard to believe, huh?

That's because it's utter horse **** and waste of bandwith for somebody that wants some attention and to pretend he has 'inside sources.'

Jacob 10-16-2003 10:25 PM

It sounds pretty crazy. I wouldn't put it past either teams, though.

But I don't think either organization benefits under any scenario.

btmarshall 10-17-2003 02:53 AM

Caps and Pens aren't in the same division, holmes.

As for the rumor, hell I hope it's true. Jagr needs to go. You can't have a competitive $40 million payroll with one guy making a quarter of it. Reagardless of one's impression of Jagr's game and performance, there simply isn't enough money to build around him in Washington.

I don't think it's a valid rumor though, because Pittsburgh has even less salary room than Washington with which to work. The only way this might make any sense at all is if attendance plummeted to something like 5,000 a game in Pittsburgh, and the team felt it needed a major draw to lure fans back ... but the Pens are not at that point yet and probably will not reach that point.

Who really thinks that a team forced to work on a payroll of approximately $35 million or less can absorb an $11 million player? Why would they do it? Why not stink instead for two years and try to land Crosby and/or Ovechkin?

kutdacheez 10-17-2003 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerrisRox
I can't believe people are responding to this thread like this is a legitimate rumour.

You should believe it for even you have responded.

Quote:

This is an absurd fabrication by the original poster.
Could be, but I didn't make it up . . . I'm just passing it on. You obviously have a problem with it. So what? Go read something else. Why would you be on a trade rumor board anyway?

Quote:

Yeah, the Capitals are going to trade him, and eat $17 million in the process.
Wait a minute. Is this YOU responding and offering up information to continue the string? Sure is. You can't have it both ways, Ferris Rox.

Quote:

This summer, they nearly moved him and didn't have to eat dollar one, but now, a few months later, they've elected to eat $17 million.
Suppose I respond to this by saying that your comment ^^^ above is a pure absurd fabrication by you? Is that acceptable? Because it is. And it is by you . . . where I was just passing on what I heard from the same person that said we were going to trade Jagr to the Capitals. I think that met the absurd category with those type know-it-alls back then, too.

Quote:

And just so their fans are really furious, not only do they plan to eat all of that salary and dump the team's best player, but on top of it, they are going to pay $17 millon for Jagr to play ON A DIVISION RIVALS ROSTER.
Why not? Isn't that what Pittsburgh did when they traded Jagr to a division rival? BTW, Washington and Pittsburgh are really in different divisions FYI.

Quote:

The Penguins are so cash-strapped that they couldn't afford to qualify players like Joel Bouchard and Shawn Heins,
That's pretty funny. I prefer to think that they recognized how lousy both of them are. Are you Shawn Hiens' agent BTW?
BTW, other than the rumors that they are so cash-strapped why don't you offer up some real factual evidence other than other people's opinion rumor and innuendo. Do you have something? Something concrete, that is. You know, like inside information, a source to their books maybe?

Quote:

That's because it's utter horse **** and waste of bandwith for somebody that wants some attention and to pretend he has 'inside sources.'
Here's my comment to you Ferris Rox . . . if you want to say I don't believe it it doesn't bother me. In fact, I don't. But I didn't believe Jagr was going to Washington either. Now, when you want to add five or six shots at me in the process about personal attention and a waste of bandwidth . . . I guess it's whatever floats your row boat.

You do live on a boat, don't you? :bow:


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