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Cross Out The Eyes* 10-18-2003 05:49 AM

Simon Gagne Trade Ideas
 
I don't want to trade Gagne for three bad games. I don't even want to trade him for playing lousy last year. I want to trade him because he is too injury prone, and too soft to be a Flyer. He'd be much better suited to play out west where the game is much more open. I fear that this injuries and the tentativeness will continue, and we'll end up trading him for very little in the future.

We might have missed our best chance of trading him this offseason. I am sure we could have gotten Drury for him, and Gagne, Seidenberg, and the 11th overall might have gotten us the number one pick and Fleury.

So anyway, I have a criteria for trading him. First, he goes out west. Two we need to get youth back. Three, we are most looking at getting back something at LW, and we need to be realistic.

Gaborik, forget it. Minny ain't trading him, and it would take more than Gagne alone.

Comrie, same problem as Gagne. He is too soft to play in the east. He also plays center, and I think Gagne is better anyway.

So, here are some IDEAS. I am not saying I would do these, just some ideas that I'd definitly consider.

1. Phoenix Coyotes

I am sure Gretzky would love to have him, and Phoenix and Philly always trade.

Phoenix gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Shane Doan

Doan only had 20 and 21 goals the last two years. The previous two though he had 26 and 26. Doan plays a fearless power game with lots of hitting and some fighting. He is also very good on the PP, with 23 PP points in 00-01, and 20 last year. The only problem is Doan is 27, which I'd like to get someone no older than 25-26, and hopefully even younger. Doan is also more of a RW, but he can play all three forward positions.

I like Doan alot. I'd consider doing this even up, if Phoenix threw in a decent prospect or second rounder I'd definitly do it.

Phoenix gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Ladislav Nagy

Nagy is 24 years older and seems to be improving still. His goal production went from 24 down to 23 last year, but his points went up from 42 to 57. Nagy is primed to be a 25+ goal, 55-60 point guy for many years. He is not a tough forward, but he isn't soft, and he isn't a total softee like Gagne.

Even up, I don't know if I'd do it. I like Doan better. If Phoenix threw in something else, I'd do it. I'd rather get Doan though, despite him being 3 years older than Nagy, and not a natural LW.

2. San Jose Sharks

San Jose seems to be in a transition period, and would possibly willing to shake things up.

San Jose gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Marco Sturm, Jonathon Cheechoo

Sturm is 25 and is coming off a 28 goal season. The previous year he did only 20...however. Sturm was once nominated for the selke, and is that good of a defensive forward. This guy would fit right in with Hitch's system and be his Lehtinen in Philly. He can also play LW and C. Cheechoo is 23 and was drafted 29th in 1998. If nothing else has proven to be a 10-15 goal, tough, defensively responsible guy. He defintily has the talent to become a 15-20 goal guy who brings grit and character, and replace Brash on the third line in the near future.

I'd make this trade. Sturm would fit great in with Hitch, score 25 goals, and get selke consideration. CheeChoo would just be a bonus, and could be a great third liner for us in a year or two.

3. Nashville Predators

The Preds have a lot of decent young players, and I am sure they'd like to have a guy like Gagne.

Nashville gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Scott Hartnell, Jordin Tootoo

Hartnell has yet to realize his potential as the 6th overall pick in 2000. However, he is only 21, and has been a 15 goal, 40 point, 100+ pim guy. Hartnell plays the game hard, gritty, and is a hell a pest. There is defintily some offensive potential. I think Hartnell could be one of those guys like Keith Jones, or a young Dallas Drake. They might be more second, or even third line talent, but they fit very nicely on a teams top scoring line. They can do all hard work, pest guys, and with highly skilled linemates, score some goals as well. Tootoo is basically Hartnell, although unproven in the NHL.

This could be a risky trade. You could end up with two third liners, or even a third liner and a fourth line in Tootoo. At the same time, you get two younger forwards than Gagne, both with a lot of talent, and a lot more grit. I like Hartnell alot and think he will be a 20 goal 50 point guy who plays with a big edge. I'd seriously consider doing this trade.

4. Chicago Blackhawks

They suck, they'd be willing to deal if they got something they liked.

Chicago gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Kyle Calder, Mark Bell

Calder and Bell are both 23. Bell was drafted 8th overall in 1998. At this point Bell is only a 15 goal, 30 point, 100+ pim guy. He does have potential to get better though, and if nothing else would be an upgrade over Brashear on the third line for sure. Calder has been right around 20 goals and 45-50 points for his first two season. He also plays gritty, and I think on a good team like ours could be better. I think his style would compliment JR and Amonte, and he'd score 20+ with them.

The Flyers lack skill, and they'd lose it in this deal. They'd gain alot of grit and toughness. Tough call here, I'd have to really think about this one.

5. La Kings

Who knows??

LA gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Alexander Frolov

Just trust me, Frolov is going to be a better player than Simon Gagne sooner or later, and maybe very sooner.

This deal might be a bit risky, and not as good (especially right away) as the others, but I'd do this one straight up just because I really think Frolov is going to be a great hockey player in the near future.

Steve L* 10-18-2003 06:28 AM

Gagne has gone from someone who is untouchable to someone Id like to see gone if we could get good value back for him.

He is soft, if he is not scoring then hes not much good on this team unlike someone like Williams who brings so much more other than skill.

I like your Nashville proposal best as you get 2 young, gritty Philly type players back

Kevin Forbes 10-18-2003 06:42 AM

Simon Gagne is a player who would attract a lot of interest (especially from those who think that a change of scenary would be exactly what he needs)

The proposals are intriguing, but I don't think Nashville will part with Tootoo or LA will part with Frolov

CREW99AW 10-18-2003 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Out The Eyes

2. San Jose Sharks

San Jose seems to be in a transition period, and would possibly willing to shake things up.

San Jose gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Marco Sturm, Jonathon Cheechoo

Sturm is 25 and is coming off a 28 goal season. The previous year he did only 20...however. Sturm was once nominated for the selke, and is that good of a defensive forward. This guy would fit right in with Hitch's system and be his Lehtinen in Philly. He can also play LW and C. Cheechoo is 23 and was drafted 29th in 1998. If nothing else has proven to be a 10-15 goal, tough, defensively responsible guy. He defintily has the talent to become a 15-20 goal guy who brings grit and character, and replace Brash on the third line in the near future.I'd make this trade. Sturm would fit great in with Hitch, score 25 goals, and gets selke consideration. CheeChoo would just be a bonus, and could be a great third liner for us in a year or two.

I'm really surprised to see Gagne's name being tossed around in trade proposals.I thought he was the player your team was built around.

as for your proposals,I really like the San Jose one.

is there anyone on the isles roster I can counter with ?

JDB3939 10-18-2003 07:01 AM

I'd love to throw Pittsburgh's name into the Gagne sweepstakes, but we have nothing of value we would be willing to trade that would attract any interest from the Flyers.

Blindside9711 10-18-2003 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDB3939
I'd love to throw Pittsburgh's name into the Gagne sweepstakes, but we have nothing of value we would be willing to trade that would attract any interest from the Flyers.

And there's no way Clarkie trades a guy who could be a 30-70 man to a division rival... no matter how crappy they are.
I think we're overvaluing Gags right now with these trade ideas. He's coming off an injury-riddled, 9 goal debacle last season. In my opinion, a line shake-up would be the best thing right now. I don't understand why he got moved up to the first line when the Gags-Zeus-Willie line was producing so well in the pre-season. Move some other joker up to play on the top line. You don't mess with chemistry and I would assume that Hitchcock would know this, but it looks like he needs a reminder. I mean, in the time he saw last season, Chouinard played real well alongside JR and I think he can be at least a 20 goal guy. It's at least worth a shot, no? We gave up a 2nd rounder for this guy... what was the point if he never plays? :dunno:

Whinks 10-18-2003 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
is there anyone on the isles roster I can counter with ?

Robert Nilsson

Rails 10-18-2003 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'm really surprised to see Gagne's name being tossed around in trade proposals.I thought he was the player your team was built around.

as for your proposals,I really like the San Jose one.

is there anyone on the isles roster I can counter with ?

I was really surprised to see this thread too, but I understand.

The team isn't built around one player right now. We need to draft a goalie to start that. Ouellet would have been it I think, but injuries to Roenick and Primeau forced Clarke to do something and Washington took full advantage.

Clarke had it going in the draft.

1998 - Gagne
1999 - Ouellet
2000 - Williams
2001 - Woywitka (and now Seidenberg)
2002 - Pitkanen (and Brunelle maybe
2003 - Carter and Richards, both of whom will hopefully become good NHL talent

Anyway, if Gagne were to be traded, I would hope it would be after the organization tried him in every possible position and situation. Move him to center, or try him on the right side of someone, play him with Chouinard. I don't think they have done that once yet.

I'd prefer to see Gagne stay here in Philadelphia. Maybe Hitchcock needs to put his feet to the fire.

Toonces 10-18-2003 07:54 AM

If Gagne is ever traded, it'll be to a team that we wouldn't have to face six times a year. Clarke sends him out west.

Now should Clarke trade Justin Williams too? He's just as injury prone if not more so than Gagne.

I guess the difference this season is production, but certianly you don't trade a potential star three games into the season.

mrs9x 10-18-2003 08:13 AM

No one mentions Iginla
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Iginla's name. He would be perfect in Philly, has great skill, is a power-player, and doesn't get injured that often. Plus, Calgary would love to shed Iginla's contract from payroll. I'd do a Gagne for Iginla straight up, or maybe throw in Seidenberg if necessary.

the future 10-18-2003 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs9x
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Iginla's name. He would be perfect in Philly, has great skill, is a power-player, and doesn't get injured that often. Plus, Calgary would love to shed Iginla's contract from payroll. I'd do a Gagne for Iginla straight up, or maybe throw in Seidenberg if necessary.

YOU CAN DREAM ABOUT AN IGGY FOR GAGNE TRADE. FROM A CALGARY PERPECTIVE IGINLA IS IN THE LAST YEAR OF HIS CONTRACT AND HAS SCORED 87 GOALS THE LAST 2 SEASONS. THEY WILL WAIT THE CBA FALLOUT AND DETERMINE THE TEAMS FATE AFTER THAT. I THINK THESE PROPOSALS ARE FAIR BUT GAGNE TRADE VALUE WILL CONTINUE TO DROP, AND WHY WOULD A TEAM TRADE A GOOD PLAYER PLAYING WELL FOR A GOOD PLAYER NOT PLAYING WELL. YOUR GOING TO GET
A GOOD PLAYER NOT PLAYING WELL IF YOU DEAL GAGNE NOW.

RoDu 10-18-2003 08:34 AM

in the offseason before Hitch's firts season, Gagne was said to want to play center again, and he was never the same player since he said that, maybe he is unhappy or unmotivated or somthing

panayiotis 10-18-2003 08:39 AM

3 games
 
Give it a rest. How many trades are made before X-mas? Nobody is scoring on the team period*. I think without a new cba in place you will not see major deals this year. Of course Gags has to get going. So do the rest of the millionaire fws on the team.

GKJ 10-18-2003 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Out The Eyes
5. La Kings

Who knows??

LA gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Alexander Frolov

Just trust me, Frolov is going to be a better player than Simon Gagne sooner or later, and maybe very sooner.

This deal might be a bit risky, and not as good (especially right away) as the others, but I'd do this one straight up just because I really think Frolov is going to be a great hockey player in the near future.


Ok, so why would Los Angeles do it? They have the prospect depth to make a trade for Gagne, but they won't trade Frolov in a deal straight up. I think you're on to something though mention SoCal. LA and Anaheim are two teams who would definetaly be interested in pushing their team over the top by getting Gagne, but the Kings would have much more to offer back. They have a lot of good foward prospects we lack and need a good defenseman prospect we have in Seidenberg or possibly Woywitka. I'd try offering Gagne, Seidenberg and a 5th round pick for Frolov and one great prospect or two alright ones.

From Anaheim i'd offer Gagne and Seidenberg for Chistov, and a good prospect or a high draft pick (if they're bad a 2nd, if they're good, a 1st)

GKJ 10-18-2003 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs9x
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Iginla's name. He would be perfect in Philly, has great skill, is a power-player, and doesn't get injured that often. Plus, Calgary would love to shed Iginla's contract from payroll. I'd do a Gagne for Iginla straight up, or maybe throw in Seidenberg if necessary.

Iginla is a guy everyone in Philly wants, but he is on the same level as guys like Gaborik, Kovalchuk and Hossa...you cannot offer enough to get them out of town. Iginla isn't getting traded, so why waste time with proposals for him?

Larry44 10-18-2003 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'm really surprised to see Gagne's name being tossed around in trade proposals.I thought he was the player your team was built around.

Pass on all those deals. Gagne's going nowhere. If Clarke trades Gagne he's even more stupid than I thought.

He's playing fine. Skating well, generating chances off the rush and in the slot.

As soon as he gets on a line with a real #1 calibre right winger it will help. Put Amonte in the pressbox and Willy with Gags where he belongs.

BrindA17 10-18-2003 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry44
Put Amonte in the pressbox and Willy with Gags where he belongs.

LOL! Absolutely ridiculous. I don't care how old Amonte is or if he's on the downslope of his career, he's still better than Williams is and ever will be.

fan mao rong 10-18-2003 10:53 AM

press box
 
Good news. No need for either of those guys to sit in the pressbox. Just gleaned from Flyers and Phantoms websites that Handzus is out against Pheonix in tonight's (Saturday Oct. 17) game. Peter White has been recalled.

nathan 10-18-2003 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Out The Eyes
3. Nashville Predators

The Preds have a lot of decent young players, and I am sure they'd like to have a guy like Gagne.

Nashville gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Scott Hartnell, Jordin Tootoo

Hartnell has yet to realize his potential as the 6th overall pick in 2000. However, he is only 21, and has been a 15 goal, 40 point, 100+ pim guy. Hartnell plays the game hard, gritty, and is a hell a pest. There is defintily some offensive potential. I think Hartnell could be one of those guys like Keith Jones, or a young Dallas Drake. They might be more second, or even third line talent, but they fit very nicely on a teams top scoring line. They can do all hard work, pest guys, and with highly skilled linemates, score some goals as well. Tootoo is basically Hartnell, although unproven in the NHL.

This could be a risky trade. You could end up with two third liners, or even a third liner and a fourth line in Tootoo. At the same time, you get two younger forwards than Gagne, both with a lot of talent, and a lot more grit. I like Hartnell alot and think he will be a 20 goal 50 point guy who plays with a big edge. I'd seriously consider doing this trade.

Although the Preds could use a bonafide goal-scorer, I think they would be better off sticking with the plan and building from within. Giving up those 2 players, the Preds lose a LOT of grit and toughness...something they won't exactly get from Gagne. I don't know...it could work, but this would have to be close to a blockbuster trade with more players involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Out The Eyes
5. La Kings

Who knows??

LA gets Simon Gagne
Philly gets Alexander Frolov

Just trust me, Frolov is going to be a better player than Simon Gagne sooner or later, and maybe very sooner.

This deal might be a bit risky, and not as good (especially right away) as the others, but I'd do this one straight up just because I really think Frolov is going to be a great hockey player in the near future.

It's good that you put a threw out a lot of proposals, but some...I don't know.

you say that Frolov is going to be better than Gagne. If that is true, why would the Kings make that trade then? Not only from a player standpoint, but the Kings, like most other teams, have financial situations with payroll and right now and in the immediate future, Gagne will be getting paid more than Frolov.

Peter Griffin 10-18-2003 11:13 AM

Just for the heck of it, what would Flyers fans think about something like this:

To Philadelphia

Todd Bertuzzi
3rd round pick

To Vancouver

Simon Gagne
Joni Pitkanen

or

To Philadelphia

Todd Bertuzzi

To Vancouver

Simon Gagne
Jeff Woywitka
1st round pick


I know neither of these deals would happen(Bertuzzi isn't going to be traded), but just for the heck of it, would anyone be interested in either proposal?

Whinks 10-18-2003 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I know neither of these deals would happen(Bertuzzi isn't going to be traded), but just for the heck of it, would anyone be interested in either proposal?

Definite no for me

John Flyers Fan 10-18-2003 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyerfanofthepeg
in the offseason before Hitch's firts season, Gagne was said to want to play center again, and he was never the same player since he said that, maybe he is unhappy or unmotivated or somthing


#1. Hitch talked about moving him to center.

#2. he was hurt all last year.

#3. They've played THREE games so far this year.

Flyman 10-18-2003 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fan mao rong
Good news. No need for either of those guys to sit in the pressbox. Just gleaned from Flyers and Phantoms websites that Handzus is out against Pheonix in tonight's (Saturday Oct. 17) game. Peter White has been recalled.

No news about it on either websites. :dunno:

John Flyers Fan 10-18-2003 11:44 AM

If you're going to trade Gagne, you certainly don't make it gagne for 2 other players. we have more than enough depth.

You would only make a move like Gagne + for a dominant player (Bertuzzi, Iginla etc. etc.).

Diesel 10-18-2003 12:28 PM

I'm fine with hanging on to Gagne, but I am sort of worried that he will never return to form and we won't be able to fetch anything for him in a trade at that point. I like this trade:

To Montreal:

Simon Gagne, Dennis Seidenberg

To Philly:

Andrei Kastitsyn, Niklas Sundstrom


Maybe throw in a draft pick or something. Montreal is in love with Simon Gagne. Home town kid. Sundstrom is a good player and Kastitsyn is going to be a star.


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