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-   -   Mtl/Edm rumor (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=21212)

RAmbo 10-20-2003 06:19 AM

Mtl/Edm rumor
 
go Check thefourthperiod.com

well Edm:Ribeiro and??????
mtl:Comrie

Who is the other guy????

Team_Spirit 10-20-2003 06:27 AM

Probaly a d-man ... Beauchemin should fit nicely , they know him well he was in Hamilton last year and was one of the top d-men on the team .

---

DocHolliday 10-20-2003 06:34 AM

If you're an Oilers fan, the ??? would likely have to be Komisarek or Zednik, and I doubt Zednik gets moved. Ribiero after struggling in parts of 3 seasons has played 4 good games on a team that's playing quite well right now. Not enough to be the centerpiece in a deal for a 30goal guy. Komisarek would be nice and probably valuewise isn't a horrid deal, but the Oilers would likely look for another sniper up front before help on the blueline. Just my 2 cents as a hpefully impartial outsider

#37-#93-#27* 10-20-2003 06:43 AM

Komisarek might be too good of a prospect to ask for. This is an 2 time RFA hold out going to the east remember, I also doubt the Habs want another midget on their team. I don't even think Comrie can net Zednik alone.

NHLcrazy 10-20-2003 06:47 AM

I don't think that makes much sense....i mean Ribeiro is showing some flashes after 5 years of developement and we trade right now....the media and public won't be happy with that even though it would be a steal for us.

what about :

Ribeiro,Bulis,pick
for
Comrie

Chayos 10-20-2003 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
It would take more than Ribs to get Comrie, but certainly not at the expense of Komisarek or Zednik. Just remember what the Flames were able to get for Savard who also had good numbers. Smallish centers traditionally have low value.


what the falmes got for savard was theirr problem not the oils. Comrie would drawa alot more than Savard did in his trade. If rebeiro was part of the deal it would have to be something like this.

Rebiero and Hainsey for Comrie and a 2nd

hockey_nut 10-20-2003 06:53 AM

i don't think montreal will trade ribeiro right now... i think edmonton is really looking for defense + forward...

#37-#93-#27* 10-20-2003 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHLcrazy
I don't think that makes much sense....i mean Ribeiro is showing some flashes after 5 years of developement and we trade right now....the media and public won't be happy with that even though it would be a steal for us.

I hope management doesn't trade to please the media and fans. You trade to get better, who cares what everyone else thinks, most times they change opinions anyway.

NHLcrazy 10-20-2003 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
I hope management doesn't trade to please the media and fans. You trade to get better, who cares what everyone else thinks, most times they change opinions anyway.


Well Montreal is Montreal.......I hope Gainey doesn't see it that way.

Ozy_Flame 10-20-2003 07:05 AM

The Savard situation was different from Comrie's. Savard's value had fallen significantly because him and management had a falling out, NOT over contract issues. Savard was a cancer in the locker room, and also happen to be on a scoring draught. Gilbert would NOT play him, and he would not play under Gilbert.

I don't believe Comrie is any sort of cancer; that has yet to be confirmed by any of his teammates or staff. The only thing that is keeping him from playing is his contract, which both Gaborik and Havlat went through earlier this season - does that mean their value decreases too? No way.

Comrie has siginificantly more value than Savard, and you can damn well expect to see him bring back a higher return than the Flames did with Savvy.

DocHolliday 10-20-2003 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Actually what the Flames got does have bearing. It shows how much value GM's have in smallish offensive centers. If the Flames could have gotten more, they would have, but nobody antied up.

As for your idea, at that point, Gainey should say, thanks, but no thanks. The only way I would include Hainsey or Komisarek is in a deal for a young offensive forward with size.

Therein lies the problem. The Oilers will want return for a 23yr old 30 goal man, where other GMs will only want to give up enough for a 5'9 center with an attitude problem. Great disparity in assets, but if I were Lowe and only getting offers for the latter, I'd let him rot.

bucksoil 10-20-2003 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
It would take more than Ribs to get Comrie, but certainly not at the expense of Komisarek or Zednik. Just remember what the Flames were able to get for Savard who also had good numbers. Smallish centers traditionally have low value.

We've heard this a million times, and the situations are not the same. Comrie is holding out mostly b/c he wants a change of scenery. He hasn't made anything public, isn't asking for the earth and moon in salary, and has generally tried his best to make this situation as private as possible.

He's also a goal-scorer, not a small playmaker, so he'll have more value because he finishes plays and doesn't need to rely as heavily on his wingers. And keep in mind how rare it is to find a 33goal scorer in his first full year in the NHL. A poor sophmore season last year doesn't change that fact.

He's also surprisingly physical, and while he's a smurf, he plays more like Theoren Fleury (in term of having an edge) than he does like Rick Middleton.

Other small centres have gathered a better return that Savard, so using the lowest common denominator is not the way to go. Comrie's value would be more along the lines of Drury. I expect to see two young players in return... one a prospect, one capable of playing now, and still with upside. (ie something like Weiss and Mezei (or other young D) was rumoured, and seems about right value wise).

With that in mind, Ribs by himself is not going to impress Lowe at all. I'd expect one of Hainsey or Komisarek to be the centrepeice, or Lowe will simply look elsewhere.

Finally, #37 - #93 - #27, you are wrong.... we are not talking about a two time RFA holdout. We are talking about a guy holding out after his first contract has expired. He had not "held-out" before, simply signed with Edmonton halfway through the season, after negotiating his rookie contract.

He's in the same situation as Gaborik and Havlat were/are. He's one of the more dynamic young scorers in the league, and he's simply playing hardball on his contract. Most accounts say that in the process of negotiating, Lowe's unwillingness to budge from his lowball offer made Comrie a little bit bitter on the situation. Consequently, he's requested the trade, as much to do with a personal rift with Lowe than with anything else.

#37-#93-#27* 10-20-2003 07:19 AM

Quote:

Finally, #37 - #93 - #27, you are wrong.... we are not talking about a two time RFA holdout. We are talking about a guy holding out after his first contract has expired. He had not "held-out" before, simply signed with Edmonton halfway through the season, after negotiating his rookie contract.
keyword is HOLD OUT not RFA.

Oiltalk 10-20-2003 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
keyword is HOLD OUT not RFA.

Any way you put it. Comrie will only be traded for the right package. Any deals including fringe players are of no interest to the Oil.

oli500 10-20-2003 08:03 AM

Quote:

If you're an Oilers fan, the ??? would likely have to be Komisarek or Zednik, and I doubt Zednik gets moved. Ribiero after struggling in parts of 3 seasons has played 4 good games on a team that's playing quite well right now. Not enough to be the centerpiece in a deal for a 30goal guy. Komisarek would be nice and probably valuewise isn't a horrid deal, but the Oilers would likely look for another sniper up front before help on the blueline. Just my 2 cents as a hpefully impartial outsider
Are you kidding me. Zednik or Komisarek for comerie. Comerie is to small to be part of any trade involving mtl right now. Gainey said he wants to get bigger up front so why would he trade a 6 foot 4 top prospect defence for a little guy, and why would he trade a 30 goals scorer right winger for a small center, who btw montreal allready has koivu and ribeiro has there 1 2 punch. If the trade was going to happen it would involve ribeiro but since the oils are asking for another defencemen its just to much because ribeiro is on the verge of having a breakout year, so enough said about this trade just wont happen.

Its going to be hard for the oils to trade comerie to any team because of his hight and his contract status. Those two factors are going to be hard for The oils to get a player thats going to make an impact right away . Its going to have to be some prospect at best.

DocHolliday 10-20-2003 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli500
Are you kidding me. Zednik or Komisarek for comerie. Comerie is to small to be part of any trade involving mtl right now. Gainey said he wants to get bigger up front so why would he trade a 6 foot 4 top prospect defence for a little guy, and why would he trade a 30 goals scorer right winger for a small center, who btw montreal allready has koivu and ribeiro has there 1 2 punch. If the trade was going to happen it would involve ribeiro but since the oils are asking for another defencemen its just to much because ribeiro is on the verge of having a breakout year, so enough said about this trade just wont happen.

Its going to be hard for the oils to trade comerie to any team because of his hight and his contract status. Those two factors are going to be hard for The oils to get a player thats going to make an impact right away . Its going to have to be some prospect at best.

I'd wait for Ribeiro to have more than 4 or 5 good games to be considered a #2 centre. He might end up there, but he's struggled to stick with the team the last 3 or 4 years. Comrie is a 30 goal man. Sure, he's short, but he isn't your typical little guy. He plays big. Sure he's half the size of Perrault, but the switch would leave you twice as tough up front.

Munchausen 10-20-2003 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHolliday
I'd wait for Ribeiro to have more than 4 or 5 good games to be considered a #2 centre. He might end up there, but he's struggled to stick with the team the last 3 or 4 years. Comrie is a 30 goal man. Sure, he's short, but he isn't your typical little guy. He plays big. Sure he's half the size of Perrault, but the switch would leave you twice as tough up front.

Doesn't matter. He cannot handle big forwards and doesn't play defense. Why in the world would the Habs want to give their best assets to get Comrie? Is he so special? There's loads of centers I would take over him that could probably be had for Zednik or Komisarek. It's too much, Habs will never, ever, do that.

Guy! 10-20-2003 09:07 AM

Personally, I don't care for the trade in any of the forms it's taken here on the boards. I'm not a huge fan of Comrie and even if he would be an upgrade on that second line behind Koivu, I don't think it's worth the effort of trading Ribeiro and *someone else* for a potential headache and the loss of the *something else*. The Habs need more size in that position and while Comrie does play with grit (don't anybody kid yourselves that this kid plays small), he's not what Gainey is looking for, I would believe.

What concerns me more than anything else are the names being given to *something else*.

Komisarek? Hainsey?

I think the simple answer from Gainey would be a mild chuckle followed by the dial tone.

The Oil would get a major steal should they get Komi for Comrie in a straight up trade. I'm not trying to diminish Comrie here, but Komi is going to be an extremely strong defender, one that every team in hockey will want to get. He's huge, can skate well, has a great shot, and has even showed an offensive flair the Habs were surprised with. Add to that his attitude, and his work ethic and, as I see it, you have the Habs next captain when Saku has left the position.

Hainsey won't bring as much in the long run, I think, but here's another extremely highly touted kid who can't be tossed in with Ribeiro to even out a trade for Comrie.

And all that is without having taken into consideration the salary implications. Montreal isn't looking to add any salary to their payroll and Comrie for Ribby straight up wouldn't be appealing in terms of dollars and sense. This is a rebuilding year, not one in which the Habs add high-priced talent.

Just my thoughts.

A concerned fan.

Sammy* 10-20-2003 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Any way you put it. Comrie will only be traded for the right package. Any deals including fringe players are of no interest to the Oil.

Exactly. Riberio a peice of CRAP that could be had for a 3rd round pick. He is about the weakest guy on the puck I have ever seen .
And by the way MTL fans, there is a difference between a guy with a contract who wont play (a holdout), & a guy with no contract.
Comrie has no contract, hence he does not play.

Av-merican 10-20-2003 09:17 AM

This discussion is moot. Comrie will be a Ranger by the All-Star break. Watch. :rolleyes:

Jeffrey 10-20-2003 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy
Exactly. Riberio a peice of CRAP that could be had for a 3rd round pick. He is about the weakest guy on the puck I have ever seen .
And by the way MTL fans, there is a difference between a guy with a contract who wont play (a holdout), & a guy with no contract.
Comrie has no contract, hence he does not play.

I dunno wut ribeiro did this summer ... but he improved a lots his all around game...(waaaaay better in the defensive aspect of the game,little bit more physical.. not much but still.. and he's way better to protect the puck!) IMO he's now ready for 2nd line duty!
I know comrie is a great player .. but i doubt i would do that trade right now ...

andora 10-20-2003 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Actually what the Flames got does have bearing. It shows how much value GM's have in smallish offensive centers. If the Flames could have gotten more, they would have, but nobody antied up.

As for your idea, at that point, Gainey should say, thanks, but no thanks. The only way I would include Hainsey or Komisarek is in a deal for a young offensive forward with size.

but calgary almost poxed his value themselves, creating a scene by healthy scratches and miniscule minutes, creating a myth that savard is a horrible team guy, bad in the room, a cry baby etc... they did it themselves...

this situation of comrie, besides him being an rfa and not playing at all is different. both sides have handled it pretty well, quietly, no direct or indirect slams back and forth.. as well, comrie simply being > then savard helps too

Garnet 10-20-2003 01:49 PM

Comrie
 
A couple Questions. How do you think Comrie will do in Montreal playing in the East and behind Koivu?? I didn't watch Comrie to much last year but please explain the -18 plus/ minus. While Cross was +16, Reasoner +19 and Staios +13. The guy doesn't like to play defense. So how would he do in Montreals new defense first system?? The guy is sitting out because he wants more money and the Edmonton fans are blowing smoke up your a**. If he wants to be traded so bad why wouldn't he sign first?? Its a lot easier to trade signed players!! The guy is asking for more than 3M a season becasue that is what he got last year with bonuses. Hes a small player and once he leaves the fast ice in Edmonton to where I believe NYR's he will die there like the rest of them.

Comrie is worth a fair value in my opinion but definitly not worth a top 25 prospect. 30 goals once. His value is a little less than Olli Jokinen is my opinion.

Seachd 10-20-2003 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garnet
I didn't watch Comrie to much last year but please explain the -18 plus/ minus.

There are a few ways to explain it, but most people tend to leave out the fact that he was a team-leading +16 the year before. How a guy can go from +16 to -18 is a little strange. Unless maybe something happened during the year... perhaps an injury or something. But we might as well ignore all that. The fact is he was a -18 and therefore must be terrible defensively. Which, when combined with his size, means his trade value is next to nothing. Remember, for this to work, we also have to ignore the fact that he just turned 23, has already had a 30 goal season, and is an excellent playmaker. Yep, the negatives far outweigh the positives.

bucksoil 10-20-2003 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garnet
A couple Questions. How do you think Comrie will do in Montreal playing in the East and behind Koivu?? I didn't watch Comrie to much last year but please explain the -18 plus/ minus. While Cross was +16, Reasoner +19 and Staios +13. The guy doesn't like to play defense. So how would he do in Montreals new defense first system?? The guy is sitting out because he wants more money and the Edmonton fans are blowing smoke up your a**. If he wants to be traded so bad why wouldn't he sign first?? Its a lot easier to trade signed players!! The guy is asking for more than 3M a season becasue that is what he got last year with bonuses. Hes a small player and once he leaves the fast ice in Edmonton to where I believe NYR's he will die there like the rest of them.

Comrie is worth a fair value in my opinion but definitly not worth a top 25 prospect. 30 goals once. His value is a little less than Olli Jokinen is my opinion.

If he did end up in MTL, I'd be surprised to see him play behind Koivu. Not a slam on Koivu, but they are both EXTREMELY talented with the puck. If Koivu wasn't moved to the wing, MTL would be wise to go with 1a and 1b lines.

Comrie has shown he can carry a line even with Smyth out and Carter sulking. His first full season he basicly kept the oil afloat offensively by himself... Smyth missed about 20 games at the same time as Carter went into a HUGE slump. Comrie kept on ticking, scoring clutch goal after goal.

Also, as noted above, Comrie was the team leader in +/- that year.

This past year, Comrie was slumping a bit... that is true. However, prior to breaking a bone in his hand, he was -3, and on pace for 70 points. In the 20-odd games he played after the injury, he was not the same guy... simultaneously battling an injury and getting frustrated (I watched nearly every game, and you could see it on his face).

Common issues for young players, but make no mistake, whoever gets this kid is going to be pleasantly surprised.

As for EDM fans blowing smoke, I don't know what to say... could it possibly be that we have been watching this situation and reading about it EVERY DAY, so perhaps we're a bit more familiar with it? Could it also be that we watched it develop even last season, and saw that Comrie was not handling the pressure of being the team's golden-boy turned whipping boy?

Comrie originally wanted a decent wage, but it was more of a "in order to be happy with this level of superstar scrutiny, I need something close to superstar money." When it became apparent in negotiations that Lowe was being a ******* (his job), Comrie said fine... you don't appreciate what I'm bringing to the table, so fine, if I'm playing for less money, move me somewhere where I can have some peace and quiet.

Essentially it boils down to him taking the stand that if he is going to be the "go-to guy", for a team who's GM publicly blames him for playoff losses, we wants to be paid like a "go-to guy". He's also happy to be paid (less) like a young offensive player, but in a situation where he can be treated like it.

Of course, I'm probably just blowing smoke, b/c secretly even though Comrie has been the most exciting young player to join the team since Smyth over a decade ago, I want him gone. (much sarcasm)


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