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-   -   DO we need to make a trade... no (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=213857)

NCSENSFAN 01-20-2006 11:41 PM

DO we need to make a trade... no
 
With Eaves playing the way he is, and with BO going to be back soon. Then with Marty back near the end of the seaons we are going to have a lot of depth. I do not want to trade any of them for an overaged overpaid C. I think after the last 8 games Smoke is playing real well and might not be a bad guy to hang on too. TO many teams are too quick to trade younger guys for so called Vets. If we can add a vet for a draft pick then fine but do not break up the young talent we have now.

GO SENS

The Mars Volchenkov 01-20-2006 11:48 PM

They don't HAVE to, but with the possibilty of losing Redden or Chara or Havlat this offseason, wouldn't you want to go for it all? I also have worries as to how well Havlat would play in the postseason IF he makes it back in time.

Vermette and Bochenski are probably the two biggest bargaining chips, and I have no problem with trading one of them away for Weight (Along with a pick). Neither of them are going to become first line players, both will be second liners at best, IMO.

Also, I think Bochenski will be sent down once he's healthy, because they certainly aren't sending down Eaves.

NCSENSFAN 01-21-2006 12:00 AM

Why not keep what you got now, send Bo down fine you can bring him up for depth in the playoffs.

Look at it from the flip side, I remember a young Canes team making a run a few years back that had some vets in there but they were young. With the guys that we got maybe they play with something to prove and not play afraid.

Doug W. is he worth it?

Who else is there?

Keep the kids you got a G in net that this team has never had before. Even though I never liked Dom the guy is good. He can win the cup with our D now. Do not get rid of the future.

Run with this.

Don Draper 01-21-2006 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCSENSFAN
Do not get rid of the future.

Run with this.


not to belittle our prospects, but what future? It isnt like we have a huge amount of guys coming up the pipe right now we can put the label of top 6 forward or top 4 future. Dont pretend like sacrificing part of the future is somehow going to destroy our chances of winning 5-8 years from now. Our chance of winning 5-8yrs from now is going to be based on having a winning atmosphere and introducing kids into their roles with little pressure. For the most part, our future is on the roster right now. Spezza, Emery, Mez, Eaves, Volchenkov, i think we can agree that these guys our who are our future, not kaig vermette or bochenski. Those guys will play and play well, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking they are main cogs for the future. The only prospect that you will not see moved is Lee, because of his draft age and how high he was taken.

besides that, I say lets get this done.

SammyTheBull 01-21-2006 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I.M. Fletcher
not to belittle our prospects, but what future? It isnt like we have a huge amount of guys coming up the pipe right now we can put the label of top 6 forward or top 4 future. Dont pretend like sacrificing part of the future is somehow going to destroy our chances of winning 5-8 years from now. Our chance of winning 5-8yrs from now is going to be based on having a winning atmosphere and introducing kids into their roles with little pressure. For the most part, our future is on the roster right now. Spezza, Emery, Mez, Eaves, Volchenkov, i think we can agree that these guys our who are our future, not kaig vermette or bochenski. Those guys will play and play well, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking they are main cogs for the future. The only prospect that you will not see moved is Lee, because of his draft age and how high he was taken.

besides that, I say lets get this done.

You forgot Heatley and Havlat.

Don Draper 01-21-2006 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammyTheBull
You forgot Heatley and Havlat.

havlat may be gone in the summer and as far as I am concerned, Heatley is a huge luxury. I love what he brings, but I think most would say we have no idea how long he will be in an ottawa jersey for. I wouldnt be at all surprised if his 3 years are all he has in ottawa

The Lehner 01-21-2006 09:51 AM

We must make a deal to strengthen our 2nd line centre position. Bryan Smolinski is not offensively talented enough to pivot the 2nd line of a Stanley Cup champion, and to me, Mike Fisher is a perfect 3rd line centre. All the other teams in the Eastern playoff race will likely make moves to improve their roster...so will the Sens.

If we have a chance to land a Doug Weight or a Olli Jokinen, the Sens have to make that move if we have to give up a Vermette or a Bochenski. With Hasek's age and the impending free agency of both Chara and Redden, the Stanley Cup window is pretty narrow and the Sens must do everything to go for it this year IMO. Even if we move a Vermette or Bochenski to acquire that 2nd line centre, our young forward crop of Heatley, Spezza, Havlat, Eaves, Fisher, Kaigorodov is strong for the future.

I have no doubt that Mr. Melnyk will give Mucks the green light to make the moves he sees fit to win the Cup this year.

pepty 01-21-2006 10:40 AM

I wouldn't mind giving up Bochenski,but Vermettte comes up big in tight/playoff games and I think it would be poor management to give him up now.

I don't agree that Emery is necessarily a future building block of the Sens.

Pilgore88 01-21-2006 10:57 AM

I have my doubts with Kaigs coming over seas, so why dont we Just go after Jokinen, give flordia Kaigs, who we expect as our 2cd line center next year as well as smoke, which will free up some cap room, and the try and sign jokinen to a 3 or 4 year deal.

EJsens1 01-21-2006 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I.M. Fletcher
havlat may be gone in the summer and as far as I am concerned, Heatley is a huge luxury. I love what he brings, but I think most would say we have no idea how long he will be in an ottawa jersey for. I wouldnt be at all surprised if his 3 years are all he has in ottawa

Well, are we going to be able to keep anyone??? You've dumped pretty much our whole team. I realize we can't keep everyone, but you have dumped virtually all our best players minus Spezza. The salary cap isn't going to have that big of an affect as you are insinuating.

Lonnie Loach 01-21-2006 11:32 AM

Smolinksi has a grand total of 9 goals in 44 games playing on the highest scoring team in the NHL, while getting plenty of quality ice time. He has done precious little as a Senator in the playoffs, and quite frankly, has never been able to produce in the playoffs. He is not a competent second line center in the regular season, much less the playoffs, for a team that has got its sights set on the Cup. The Sens have a glaring hole in their lineup at the second line center position. The team knew it going into this season, everyone on the board has pointed it out since training camp, and the rest of the league has now recognized the weakness. This reminds me somewhat of the Lalime situation 2 years ago. Muckler waited all season for Lalime to turn his game around, and when it was painfully obvious something had to be done, the rest of the league knew it too and tried to hold him up for randsom in trade talks, so he didn't pull the trigger, and the Sens flamed out in the first round. But to suggest the Sens do not need to address the situation is to be in denial.

NyQuil 01-21-2006 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonnie Loach
Smolinksi has a grand total of 9 goals in 44 games playing on the highest scoring team in the NHL, while getting plenty of quality ice time.

The great saviour Doug Weight has a grand total of 10 goals in 44 games with considerably more quality ice time.

I'm not saying he won't be an improvement, I just think people may have unreasonable expectations from the guy.

Lonnie Loach 01-21-2006 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
The great saviour Doug Weight has a grand total of 10 goals in 44 games with considerably more quality ice time.

I'm not saying he won't be an improvement, I just think people may have unreasonable expectations from the guy.


There's no denying the numbers, and I don't think Doug Weight has ever really been a big time goal scorer, but he has been a very effective offensive player in the NHL for a very long time. Keep in mind Doug Weight is really out in the wilderness in St. Louis - surrounded by a really bad team and, on top of it, he draws the defensive attention that comes with being a #1 center. Dare I say he has the Weight of the world on his shoulders. By contrast I don't think any one of the Sens opponents has ever paid any special attention to Smolinski. I think Weight's numbers would be dramatically different as a second line center (or #1A) surrounded by a significantly better team.

The Lehner 01-21-2006 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
The great saviour Doug Weight has a grand total of 10 goals in 44 games with considerably more quality ice time.

Weight is a great playmaker with no true goal scorers on his team to finish off his passes, so I wouldn't read too much into his goal-scoring stats this year. He's 10 times the player Smolinski is in my eyes. If Weight had Alfredsson or Heatley on his wing his numbers would be much more impressive then Smolinski's.

HF2002 01-21-2006 12:56 PM

Keep in mind that players acquired at the deadline generally don't have much of an impact. It's not easy to switch teams and perform right away since the player has to learn a new system and adjust to new teammates.

Obviously there are exceptions to this, but look back at the deadline pick ups Ottawa has made and what sort of impact they had. Bondra (granted, he was added a little before the deadline), de Vries, Sillinger, Barrasso, etc all seemingly underperformed. It's harder for the 1st and 2nd line players than it would be for the 3rd and 4th line players.

SENSible1* 01-21-2006 01:15 PM

Give up Vermette and keep Bochenski.

Vermette hasn't shown he can be anything but a 3rd line PK guy and Bochenski has exceeded expectations at every level as a natural goal scorer. He has a good shot of being a nice secondary scorer and an outside shot of being a first line trigger man.

Don Draper 01-21-2006 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craven Morehead
Well, are we going to be able to keep anyone??? You've dumped pretty much our whole team. I realize we can't keep everyone, but you have dumped virtually all our best players minus Spezza. The salary cap isn't going to have that big of an affect as you are insinuating.

I am not saying we are going to lose everyone, i noted the players we are going to hold onto for sure, and everyone else is up in the air. I am counting on at least one defensemen to re-sign, alfie is here a long time still, and we are going to have to find replacement players to fill in elsewhere. Keeping spezza chara alfie havlat and heatley passed the next 3 years is wishful thinking

pepty 01-21-2006 03:59 PM

PK guys can be pretty handy-how do you think Bochenski would do there?

Vermette was close to being the best player on the team in some of the recent hard fought games when some of his higher profile teammates vanished, and he's done it before here at the playoff and reportedly in Bingo for the playoffs too.

He is a good player to have around for the playoffs at least.

As for Bochenski-I'm not as impressed by him as you seem to be,but
we'll see, time will tell.

The Mars Volchenkov 01-21-2006 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyQuil
The great saviour Doug Weight has a grand total of 10 goals in 44 games with considerably more quality ice time.

I'm not saying he won't be an improvement, I just think people may have unreasonable expectations from the guy.

Ugh, look at the teams they are on and the players they are playing with. Smolinski has gotten to play with Daniel Alfredsson and Dany Heatley for the last month and still hasn't been putting up great numbers. Doug Weight plays on a line with freakin' Jamal Mayers (whose already hit his career high in goals with 10, thank you Mr. Weight) and Dean McAmmond, whose on his way to setting a career high in goals as well.

Doug Weight makes the players around him better, Bryan Smolinski does not. I know who I want centering my 2nd line come playoff time.

Roy G Biv* 01-21-2006 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensGuy
Ugh, look at the teams they are on and the players they are playing with. Smolinski has gotten to play with Daniel Alfredsson and Dany Heatley for the last month and still hasn't been putting up great numbers. Doug Weight plays on a line with freakin' Jamal Mayers (whose already hit his career high in goals with 10, thank you Mr. Weight) and Dean McAmmond, whose on his way to setting a career high in goals as well.

Doug Weight makes the players around him better, Bryan Smolinski does not. I know who I want centering my 2nd line come playoff time.

Agreed. Weight is also facing the opposition's top shutdown defensive pairing, because with Tkachuk out, there are no other offensive threats on the Blues.

Weight will, in fact, be Ottawa's Lord and Saviour. Those who deny his greatness will be deemed heretics.

joe_shannon_1983* 01-21-2006 06:27 PM

I compare the Senators getting Weight to the Islanders getting Goring, the Flames getting Gilmour, the Penguins getting Francis, and the Stars getting Nieuwendyk.

Could have all of those teams won without getting these players? Perhaps. But we will never know.

What we do know is that all of these guys completely solidified the second-line of Stanley Cup winning teams. They provided a lot of secondary scoring.

I would prefer the Senators get Weight and have no regrets if they happen to lose, rather than not get Weight and regret not trying harder to push for a Stanley Cup.

The future will take care of itself. Worry about the future when the time comes.

The present, however, needs to be focussed on right now, because the Senators may never get this close to the Stanley Cup for a long time.

Thus, the Senators should make all attempts to get Weight, even if it ends up costing them Vermette or Bochenski.

Besides, does anyone actually think that Vermette and Bochenski can't be replaced? They seem to have the upside of good second-line players. There are about 5-10 free agents available every offseason that fit this description.

porknbeans 01-21-2006 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Give up Vermette and keep Bochenski.

Vermette hasn't shown he can be anything but a 3rd line PK guy and Bochenski has exceeded expectations at every level as a natural goal scorer. He has a good shot of being a nice secondary scorer and an outside shot of being a first line trigger man.

At least for this season - Vermette will be useful for the playoffs. I don't have much faith in Bochenski to contribute effectively come playoff time.

HF2002 01-21-2006 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferns8916
I compare the Senators getting Weight to the Islanders getting Goring, the Flames getting Gilmour, the Penguins getting Francis, and the Stars getting Nieuwendyk.

Could have all of those teams won without getting these players? Perhaps. But we will never know.

Of course, it's fairly easy to say that when you cherry pick those 4 from the last 30 years or so.

trentmccleary 01-22-2006 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
At least for this season - Vermette will be useful for the playoffs. I don't have much faith in Bochenski to contribute effectively come playoff time.

I agree, but how much will Vermette be asked to contribute once Doug Weight bumps him down another rung on the ladder? Smoke will be displaced and can fulfill Vermette's C/LW utility role this season.

After December, Bochenski put visions of Michael Ryder in my head. I'd gamble on the higher end potential and keep Bochenski over Vermette.
Bochenski and Eaves may be the makings of the 2nd line if Havlat moves. Vermette will not bump any of Spezza, Fisher or Kelly out of their spots and has not shown the ability to handle the 2nd line spot. Then we try out Kaigorodov in September and if he doesn't work out... a deal can be made for a longer term solution.

SENSible1* 01-22-2006 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trentmccleary
I agree, but how much will Vermette be asked to contribute once Doug Weight bumps him down another rung on the ladder? Smoke will be displaced and can fulfill Vermette's C/LW utility role this season.

After December, Bochenski put visions of Michael Ryder in my head. I'd gamble on the higher end potential and keep Bochenski over Vermette.
Bochenski and Eaves may be the makings of the 2nd line if Havlat moves. Vermette will not bump any of Spezza, Fisher or Kelly out of their spots and has not shown the ability to handle the 2nd line spot. Then we try out Kaigorodov in September and if he doesn't work out... a deal can be made for a longer term solution.

Precisely. Bochenski is the bigger gamble, but the rewards are far greater.


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