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-   -   Canadien's retired numbers... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=21560)

Canadienne 10-21-2003 10:22 AM

Canadien's retired numbers...
 
I've been wondering, what with all the double-digits player numbers on the team, there must be alot of retired numbers on the Canadiens.

I know, of course, that 4 (Beliveau), 9 (M.Richard), 10 (Lafleur), 12 (Cournoyer) and 16 (H.Richard) are retired. What about the numbers 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7*, and 8? Are any of them retired? If not, why aren't the kids wearing them? Aren't single digits "cool" anymore? :D

(*I think this number might be Howie Morenz' but I'm not certain)

IMO, the next number the Habs should retire is #19 (Robinson). Why it hasn't been already, I'll never understand!

Gros Bill 10-21-2003 10:48 AM

If I'm not mistaken :
# 1 - Jacques Plante
# 2 - Doug Harvey / Jacques Laperrière
# 4 - Jean Béliveau
# 7 - Howie Morenz
# 9 - Rocket Richard
# 10 - Guy Lafleur
# 16 - Henri Richard

12 is not retired.
3, 5 (Quintal), 6, 8 (Komisarek) are available.

PrairieHabber 10-21-2003 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gros Bill
If I'm not mistaken :
# 1 - Jacques Plante
# 2 - Doug Harvey / Jacques Laperrière
# 4 - Jean Béliveau
# 7 - Howie Morenz
# 9 - Rocket Richard
# 10 - Guy Lafleur
# 16 - Henri Richard

12 is not retired.
3, 5 (Quintal), 6, 8 (Komisarek) are available.

I believe 2 is for Harvey only...not Laperriere.

3 used to be commonly worn by a d-man. I can think of a few...but no one comes to mind since Murray Baron wore it for his unfortunate and brief stint with the Habs. 6 was most recently worn by the likes of Oleg Petrov (his first time with the Habs) and Russ Courtnall. I don't know if 12 has been worn much at all since Keane was traded.

Canadienne 10-21-2003 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gros Bill
If I'm not mistaken :
# 1 - Jacques Plante
# 2 - Doug Harvey / Jacques Laperrière
# 4 - Jean Béliveau
# 7 - Howie Morenz
# 9 - Rocket Richard
# 10 - Guy Lafleur
# 16 - Henri Richard

12 is not retired.
3, 5 (Quintal), 6, 8 (Komisarek) are available.

12 isn't retired yet??? Hmmm, I guess that I shouldn't be that surprised, neither are #18,#19 or #23. But hey! If we retired all the numbers of all the players from those great 70s Habs teams, there'd be only double digit numbers on the entire team now! :D

PrairieHabber 10-21-2003 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadienne
12 isn't retired yet??? Hmmm, I guess that I shouldn't be that surprised, neither are #18,#19 or #23. But hey! If we retired all the numbers of all the players from those great 70s Habs teams, there'd be only double digit numbers on the entire team now! :D

It's interesting how certain numbers have been treated differently even if they haven't been retired. 12 has been worn by the likes of Serge Boisvert to Mike Keane. 18 hasn't been worn too often. Mathieu Schneider wore it (along with #8 before he settled on #27). Denis Savard as well but not many others. 19 hasn't been worn at all and yet isn't retired....yet. 23 has been worn by guys like Brian Bellows and Turner Stevenson.

Canadienne 10-21-2003 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieHabber
It's interesting how certain numbers have been treated differently even if they haven't been retired. 12 has been worn by the likes of Serge Boisvert to Mike Keane. 18 hasn't been worn too often. Mathieu Schneider wore it (along with #8 before he settled on #27). Denis Savard as well but not many others. 19 hasn't been worn at all and yet isn't retired....yet. 23 has been worn by guys like Brian Bellows and Turner Stevenson.

I think that 23 would be a great number for Ryder! :)

Darz 10-21-2003 11:34 AM

#19 MUST BE RETIRED!!!!!!!!

Give the 'bird' his due!!!!!!!

Gros Bill 10-21-2003 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieHabber
I believe 2 is for Harvey only...not Laperriere.

Quite possible. But I was under the impression that the number had been retired to honour both players. Can someone check that ? (Darz : it becomes a statistic, because #2, divided by 2, etc. :)

PrairieHabber 10-21-2003 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gros Bill
Quite possible. But I was under the impression that the number had been retired to honour both players. Can someone check that ? (Darz : it becomes a statistic, because #2, divided by 2, etc. :)

I just double-checked my most recent NHL Official Guide & Record Book and it only lists Harvey for #2.

MontrealSF 10-21-2003 02:51 PM

#3 = Robert Dirk :yo:

hockey_nut 10-21-2003 02:57 PM

how long before (dare i say it?) #33 is retired??

Tricolore#20 10-21-2003 08:15 PM

I think Val Bure wore 18 when he was here.

So it was S Savard, then D Savard and then Bure...

PrairieHabber 10-21-2003 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricolore#20
I think Val Bure wore 18 when he was here.

So it was S Savard, then D Savard and then Bure...

Yes, Bure did wear it, but Schneider wore it briefly too. So he goes in between the Savards.

CHareth 10-21-2003 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darz
#19 MUST BE RETIRED!!!!!!!!

Give the 'bird' his due!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

skidboot 10-22-2003 05:53 AM

23 should be retired also.


2nd longest serving Captain in team history.
5? Cups.
Numerous Selke Trophies.
Quite possibly the best Defensive Forward in Team History. Maybe in NHL History!
Conn Smythe Trophy winner.

Darz 10-22-2003 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gros Bill
Quite possible. But I was under the impression that the number had been retired to honour both players. Can someone check that ? (Darz : it becomes a statistic, because #2, divided by 2, etc. :)

As far as I know it was retired for Harvey only. I know #16 at one time was retired for Herni Richard AND Elmar Lach and #4 was retired for Jean Beliveau AND Aurele Joliat, but I've never heard about Jacques Laperrière and the #2.

mcphee 10-22-2003 08:59 AM

i know what Bill's talking about. There was a ceremony honoring the 2 of them. I think that the retired number honor belongs to Harvey, though I'm not sure how these things are defined.

Guy! 10-22-2003 10:07 AM

The problem with retiring more Hab jerseys is that eventually it's going to look like we've got a bunch of linebackers on the ice. I know personally of a few fans who find their numbers utterly ridiculous as it is.

However, I do agree that both 19 and 23 should be retired. And 33 should get strong consideration in the next couple of years.

Here's what I find is the largest problem: in Montreal, those numbers are not retired because they aren't considered in the same class as the players who donned the actual retired jerseys. Robinson was a stellar defender, but compare him to the aura of Doug Harvey and many Montrealers, even those who never saw Harvey play, are left smacking their lips in dismay at the two being spoken in the same sentence. Retire Gainey's number? He was 'only' a defensive forward, how can he be there as well?

Do you see what I mean?

Management faces a really tough question when it comes to these numbers. I guarantee you that everyone up there feels that 19 and 23 and etc should be retired, but they feel they can't. Heck, if Koivu stays out his career in Montreal, when he retires he should have his jersey retired as well - just for the cancer thing. Before you criticize that, know that there are many jerseys that have been hung for just that kind of reason.

Of course, the irony of it all is that, on any other team in hockey, those two numbers (19, 23) would have been retired the day the player did the same. And you can add the 21 of Carbonneau, the 26 of Naslund and probably about 5 or 6 others. Heck, take a look around the league at some of the retired numbers and it'll leave you shaking your head in wonderment thinking......."WHO???"

What probably should be done here, and not only can I not believe I'm saying this, but I can't believe where it originated, is to take the route that Toronto has taken. *gasp sputter* (Leaf fans look away...PLEASE!) Honour numbers in the rafters. Birdman's 19 can fly high, with his name emblazoned on it forever more. But someone else can use it. If you do this, at least you are giving the player the proper respect and recognition for many years of extremely distinguished service, while at the same time not relagating all your new players to numbers like 52, 79, 81, etc, etc.

Or, we should just bite the bullet and retire all those whose play was superior to their contemporaries at the time, taking into consideration the same criteria as any other team. Since we have a rather large boat of Cup teams to choose from compared to any other, I would have to assume that the league will allow the Habs to use triple digits awfully soon. :)

A concerned fan.

FerrisRox 10-22-2003 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieHabber
I believe 2 is for Harvey only...not Laperriere.

3 used to be commonly worn by a d-man. I can think of a few...but no one comes to mind since Murray Baron wore it for his unfortunate and brief stint with the Habs. 6 was most recently worn by the likes of Oleg Petrov (his first time with the Habs) and Russ Courtnall. I don't know if 12 has been worn much at all since Keane was traded.

First of all, you are correct, Harvey is the sole honoree for the #2 being retired.

Secondly, Murray Baron never wore #3 during his stint in Montreal, he wore #36.

Other then Robert Dirk and David Wilkie, I don't recall a recent Habs player wearing #3.

As for #6, another recent player that took that sweater number was Trent McCleary.

Number 12 was worn by Darcy Tucker (who previously wore #42) up until his trade to Tampa Bay.

PrairieHabber 10-22-2003 10:21 AM

This post made me pull out my Forum book that I purchased when the Forum closed in '96. In the back of it there is a list of the all-time Habs players from 1909-1996 and the numbers they wore.

Here is a list of some notable and not-so-notable players who have worn some of the numbers mentioned in this post (I've only included players who have worn the number since a Hall of Famer wore it):

3: Butch Bouchard (43-56), Bill Kitchen (82-83), Sylvain Lefebvre (89-92), Ric Nattress (82-85), Scott Sandelin (86-88), JC Tremblay (60-72)

12: Serge Boisvert (84-86, 87-88), Perry Ganchar (87-88), Mike Keane (88-95)

18: Valeri Bure, (95-97), Jeff Brubaker (81-82), Tom Kurvers (84-86), Bill Root (82-84), Denis Savard (90-93), Mathieu Schneider (87-90)

19: no one since Robinson wore it

23: Brian Bellows (92-95), Marko Kiprusoff (95-96), Turner Stevenson

Of note, Jean Beliveau didn't alway wear #4. He wore #17 and #20 in his first season (1950-51), then #4 from 1952 to 1971, and curiously it says he wore #8 in his final season (1970-71). Does anyone know why he did that?

Gros Bill 10-22-2003 10:25 AM

Very good post, Guy, and you make some valid points. But I think some of the players who wear those high numbers do it by choice. After all, still available now :
3
5 (Quintal)
6
8 (Komo)
12
13
14
15 (Langdon ?)
17 (Ward)
18
19 (somebody would have to be pretty ballsy),
20 (Zed)
21
22 (Bégin)
23 (Think the guy with 19 is ballsy?)
24 (Dackell)
25 (Kilger)
26
27
28
29
30 (Garon)

By my count, 13 numbers still available from 0 to 30 (make it 12, cuz #19 should be retired soon, IMO), counting the ones that are taken up now. Still plenty of free #'s, I think.

mcphee 10-22-2003 10:35 AM

Guy you make a good point as to whether or not a player has earned that honor. I was born in 55 and never saw Harvey play in his prime. There was no question though among anyone who had followed hockey in the 50's, Harvey was the best. I remember my father speaking of how Harvey would control the game and its' tempo. He was considered THE best in his era. Robinson's greatest attribute was that he was consistently at the top, with the best for a long period of time. He could do anything that you could want a player to do on the ice. Was he the absolute best ? He was right up there, but he was never clearly the best. Should his number be retired ? I say yes, because he was our second best of all time and probably top 10 in the NHL historically. The fact that we had a lot of great players shouldn't diminish what a player accomplished. I think that certain players qualify more for the way they wore the sweatre than for the actual numbers they put up. Henri Richard is an example of this, and I think Gainey falls into this category.
Patrick ? Sure, why not ? When you put a team on your back and carry them to 2 Cups, you become a legend.

I think I get your point though. How do you give the same honor to Bob Gainey as Maurice Richard, a folk hero in many ways. Frankly, if you retire #23, why not Claude Provost ? Not the player Gainey was ? Ask Bobby Hull about Claude Provost. I guess it becomes about an aura as you say, but it becomes generational. To me, whatever 'it' is, Gainey had it. Anyways, it isn't a right or wrong debate but often a player's legend has a lot to do with being in the right place at the right time.

Gros Bill 10-22-2003 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieHabber

Of note, Jean Beliveau didn't alway wear #4. He wore #17 and #20 in his first season (1950-51), then #4 from 1952 to 1971, and curiously it says he wore #8 in his final season (1970-71). Does anyone know why he did that?

I've no recollection of Béliveau wearing #8 in 70-71. Perhaps some of our more "experienced" posters do ?

mcphee 10-22-2003 11:00 AM

I know that in 71, when they made the Frank Mahovlich trade, his #27 wasn't available as they were on the road and simply didn't have one. He wore bill Collins #10 for a game until they ret'd home. That's actually a trivia question about who wore 10 before Lafleur. But Beliveau with #8, unless they had some stuff stolen on the road, which I vaguely remember hearing about, I don't remember that.

David 10-22-2003 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieHabber
This post made me pull out my Forum book that I purchased when the Forum closed in '96. In the back of it there is a list of the all-time Habs players from 1909-1996 and the numbers they wore.


I have a question that I've been wondering about for years but it is kind of off topic but pertains to jersey numbers still...

I remember Joe Sakic wearing 88 in Quebec before Lindros was drafted by the Nordiques. Was Joe asked to change his number by the management because of Eric? What was the reason for his number change? Does anybody know?

To have this answered would be like lifting a 10 pound weight around my neck that I've been carrying around for 15 years...so thanks in advance!


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