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DRL 10-22-2003 06:12 AM

The coaching thread
 
This thread is dedicated to our thoughts on coaching.

granto is scaring me and i don't he is the coach for the avs, the PP is playing like garbage, the Pk is as crappy as it was last year and the worst thing is PL did his best to improve them both during the off-season.

mcallister-battaglia-cummins WTF is that!

Skoula seems to be getting more 5 on 5 ice time than morris, brutal.

The team is never motivated or interested in playing a full 60 minutes, coaches responsibility is to get these guys up for games, bourque and roy were the reason for this team being ready every game in our president season and if we are going to be successful our motivational techniques are going to have to improve, period!

btw who do you think would be a good replacement for coaching position.

Av-merican 10-22-2003 06:24 AM

God, that's all we need. For Lacroix to go through coaches like Lou Lamoriello.

I'm definitely mad at Tony G though. The PK at times shows some aggressive play, but then it reverts to the same ol' passive box BS it has been for years. One thing that's really sticking in my craw is the fact that he's continually experimenting with PP and PK units. Uh, yeah, Tony? That's what PRESEASON is for! :mad:

I'm also mad that he has no idea what a transition game is. Call Lemaire boring all you want, but if he had the talent Granato has at his disposal the Avs would be undefeated right now. Lemaire employs the trap, yes, but he uses it to set up his forwards and get the puck going the other way. Fast.

Possible replacements should Granato continue to struggle through the remainder of October? Bob Hartley. Oh, he's not available? Yeah, that's right, he's currently enjoying success in Atlanta. Dumb move, Lacroix.

All right, seriously, I suppose Ted Nolan's name will come up sooner or later, but I'd rather see someone like Peter Laviolette. He got a raw deal in Long Island.

Gumballhead 10-22-2003 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KL
Dumb move? The players werent listening to him, the team was using weird combos, they were losing left and right. Hartley goes, and suddenly players who had been underachieving started scoring goals.

Might be happening to Granato, too. He sure was making some funky line combinations last night, so many that I can't even remember them. I just remember McAllister being on a skill line more than once. It seems like if anyone is panicking, it's Granato. If he would pay more attention to matchups and line changes, things will probably work themselves out, and he wouldn't need to go nuts with weird combinations. This team has so many new players that it seems paramount to let the lines get some cohesiveness and chemistry, and not tinker around so much when other areas of coaching need more attention, like...the basics.

Also, it should be said the Bruins played a hell of a game last night, and Potvin was pretty great. The Avs probably lose that one even if they play well.

EDIT: And while Skoula was wholly awful last night, I don't think you can get on him too much for Samsonov's undressing of him on the breakaway. Not many players would have stopped him, and he did at least steer him to the outside, even if he had to go to his belly to do it. :p But his passing last night was absoultely brutal.

hoserthehorrible 10-22-2003 08:48 AM

I don't think Granato is changing lines because he actually thinks Selanne should be on the 4th line while McAllister should be on the 1st line. I also don't think Granato puts out MacAllister-Battaglia-Cummins because he thinks that's the best 3rd line he can put out there.

I think Granato is trying to send a message to his team that they need to get their **** together, skate hard for 60 minutes, and play smart hockey or else changes will be made. I'm not sure that the superstars like Sakic, Selanne, Kariya, Forsberg, Hejduk, Blake or Foote are going to take it too seriously though. Therein lies the problem. The big guns are playing like crap right now right along with everyone else. The superstars are saying the right things.... keep it simple, focus, play hard, play within ourselves, yadda, yadda, yadda..... but then they go out and stink up the joint for 50 out of 60 minutes.

Granato is facing a big test as a coach right now. He's got a lot of high expectations thrust upon him and a lot of big names that aren't performing right now. A lot depends on how he handles this situation and whether he can get the attention and respect of the big guns when he gets pissed off or whether they tune him out and do their own thing anyway.

Jori 10-22-2003 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarOutCrops
Might be happening to Granato, too. He sure was making some funky line combinations last night, so many that I can't even remember them. I just remember McAllister being on a skill line more than once. It seems like if anyone is panicking, it's Granato. If he would pay more attention to matchups and line changes, things will probably work themselves out, and he wouldn't need to go nuts with weird combinations. This team has so many new players that it seems paramount to let the lines get some cohesiveness and chemistry, and not tinker around so much when other areas of coaching need more attention, like...the basics.

Also, it should be said the Bruins played a hell of a game last night, and Potvin was pretty great. The Avs probably lose that one even if they play well.

EDIT: And while Skoula was wholly awful last night, I don't think you can get on him too much for Samsonov's undressing of him on the breakaway. Not many players would have stopped him, and he did at least steer him to the outside, even if he had to go to his belly to do it. :p But his passing last night was absoultely brutal.


To be honest with you, I felt Potvin was in a rocking chair most of the night. The Avs hardly challenged him or forced Potvin to make any tough saves.

You are right about the Samsonov move, most defenders would have been beaten badly, its more amusing because it was Skoula on the ice :joker:

BF_Sweden 10-22-2003 11:43 AM

Im under the impression that the PP was just fine when Granato sent out Blake and Kariya at the points and Sakic, Hejduk and Forsberg. In the first two-three games it felt like when that particular unit was out they scored almost immediately. But when he stayed with the fullstrength forward units they have been sloppy. Am I right or?

nathan 10-22-2003 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Av-merican
All right, seriously, I suppose Ted Nolan's name will come up sooner or later, but I'd rather see someone like Peter Laviolette. He got a raw deal in Long Island.

I doubt we'd want Laviolette. He'd have the same problems as Granato...inexperienced coach dealing with star players...although Laviolette is wayyy ahead of Granato.

No dice on Robinson...I don't think you can sign away an assistant coach during the season...but the offseason is possible.

How about Robbie Ftorek? Guy's never had a chance...like when he was fired the season the Devs won the cup?

Av-merican 10-22-2003 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan
How about Robbie Ftorek? Guy's never had a chance...like when he was fired the season the Devs won the cup?

Well, for a team as loaded up front as the Avs, Ftorek is definitely a possibility. He's one of the few offensive geniuses in the NHL. I'd definitely take him over Tocchet right now.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never thought much of Jacques Cloutier. Quenneville was the real genius behind our defense, and I think the blueline corps has never been all that it could be with Cloutier back there.

nathan 10-22-2003 12:07 PM

Nah, Cloutier will never head coach. He was the 1st choice over Granato, but he prefers to be in the background.

See how we're all talking about Granato and not Cloutier? Exactly his point :)

Eww....how can you suggest Rick Tocchet as the head coach of the Avs? I certainly hope PL isn't even giving that idea a millisecond of thinking time :rant:

Laperriere22* 10-22-2003 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan
No dice on Robinson...I don't think you can sign away an assistant coach during the season...but the offseason is possible.

Yes, you can actually. The Blues and Quenneville being the best example of that. All the Avs would have to do would be to get permission to talk with Robinson from his current team (where is he by the way?).

nathan 10-22-2003 12:17 PM

So Quenville was hired away midseason?

Robinson was out of the job for a while and the Devs rehired him, only as an AC under Pat Burns.

Av-merican 10-22-2003 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan
Nah, Cloutier will never head coach. He was the 1st choice over Granato, but he prefers to be in the background.

See how we're all talking about Granato and not Cloutier? Exactly his point :)

Eww....how can you suggest Rick Tocchet as the head coach of the Avs? I certainly hope PL isn't even giving that idea a millisecond of thinking time :rant:

Uh...are you referring to my earlier post? I suppose I wasn't clear enough. Allow me

I don't like Cloutier. I think he's a poor defensive coach. I don't even want him as an assistant, much less head coach.

As for Tocchet, again, I wasn't even for a millisecond suggesting he be the head coach either. I was thinking that Ftorek would be a good replacement for HIM. While coaching alongside Lemaire, the Devils were a dominant team both defensively AND offensively. The man knows how to set up an attack.

The reason I think Ftorek might be better as only an assistant is because for whatever reason his attitude seems to rub players the wrong way. Granato at least has that "player's coach" charm... :p

Laperriere22* 10-22-2003 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan
So Quenville was hired away midseason?

Robinson was out of the job for a while and the Devs rehired him, only as an AC under Pat Burns.

Yep, Q came in halfway through the 96-97 season for Keenan.

Thanks for the Robinson info.

nathan 10-22-2003 12:23 PM

It's all cool...I assumed you were thinking that Cloutier could end up replacing Granato.

PL has this habit of promoting coaches...from minors to pros, etc...he did that with Crawford, Hartley. And with AC becoming the HC (Granato). I certainly hope he doesn't do that again...b/c our *ahem* coaching prospects are lacking :)

But I know some coaches have their pride. They think "why would I want to be an AC if I can HC a team?" Well, even though most are out of the job...I think they're just biding their time waiting for a team like us to fire its HC.

Miller259 10-22-2003 01:21 PM

Granato has his hands full....
 
....give the guy a break.

He has to:
-manage the top two lines
-CREATE another 3rd and 4th line.
-Change the defense pairings
-Change the PP one the fly all the time
-Constantly rotate forwards on the PK

All at the same time while trying to tutor almost 2 rookie goaltenders. I think it's too soon to start critisizing his style. The Sharks made their worst move ever and threw half a decade of hard work into the crapper when they fired their head coach and completely changed their system before giving him a chance to correct things.

I know it looks on paper like the Avs should be scoring at least 5 goals a game, but it's not going to happen with this roster.....not in today's NHL.

Foppa2118 10-22-2003 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller259
....give the guy a break.

He has to:
-manage the top two lines
-CREATE another 3rd and 4th line.
-Change the defense pairings
-Change the PP one the fly all the time
-Constantly rotate forwards on the PK

All at the same time while trying to tutor almost 2 rookie goaltenders. I think it's too soon to start critisizing his style.

Sure it's a tough job, but that's why you need somebody who's qualified to do it. Granato may prove to be a good coach one day, he sure has all the qualities of one, but he needed to learn the ropes in the minors first to be one IMO. All those reasons you mentioned are why it is so tough to just jump into a head coaching job after only a few months of assistant coaching experience. Granato is still getting burned on changes, and is still slow at putting people out there during stopages in play.

I don't think Granato should be let go anytime soon, but if the team is still struggling around new year, I think a guy that might be available is Brian Sutter. Suposedly he and, GM Mike Smith are at odds, and either guy could go at this point. But the GM gets to decide if the coach goes usually, and with Daze and Zhamnov out, Sutter could become the scapegoat to save Smith's own ass. I think Brian Sutter would be just what the Avs need behind the bench, but I still think Ganato can learn fast and get the job done at this point. It would be interesting to see what happens with Granato if he does get dimissed though. Would he be asked to leave the team, or maybe Peirre would pull a NJ and ask him to stick around as an assitant coach, which I always felt would be extremely uncomfortable for both guys. How can the new head coach, coach the team as his own, with the old guy at his side, and how can the old guy feel comfortable serving under the guy that took his job?

Miller259 10-23-2003 10:54 AM

Yes, I agree it would have helped for him to learn the ropes. But even if he had, I would still give him the benifit of the doubt this early on in the season.


Sutter would gut the team and make it an all-out 4-line attack. I don't mind seeing that, but my guess would be some of you guys here don't.


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