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-   -   Ranger plan centers on using Mess more (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=22385)

KING 10-24-2003 03:57 AM

Ranger plan centers on using Mess more
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...p-116211c.html

KING 10-24-2003 03:59 AM

Messier Prepared For More Minutes
 
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...gers-headlines

KING 10-24-2003 04:06 AM

Messier gets promotion to second line
 
http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsro...angersweb.html

True Blue 10-24-2003 04:07 AM

As thought, welcome to the beginning of the end. According to Mess, it's not the amount of minutes that is important, it's the ability to rest between games. Ie......the ability not to attend practices. Way to set an example. Again, the players can look to our fearless leader to guide them. Just not at practice apparetnly. As we all know, Messier's play has been so stellar over the past 5 years, he does not need to practice.
And Sather is a joke. You would think that he has seen with his own eyes what happens when Messier plays 18+ minutes a night and goes against anyone but the 3rd/4th line and 3rd defensive pairing. So now, it's right back to Messier getting major minutes.

Fletch 10-24-2003 04:35 AM

Tb...
 
unfortunately Messier is this organization's 3rd or 4th best centerman, when everybody's healthy. He's also this team's second best playmaker. While I'm not wild about Mess playing major minutes (which I believe for the next 3-4 games will not present a problem), I don't see many other options for a Lindros substitute. Let's hope Sather is smart and gives the out-of-shape Rheaume Mess' PK minutes. That should mitigate things somewhat.

klingsor 10-24-2003 04:58 AM

Fletch, I doubt Sather's gonna give Rheaume Messier's PK time. With all the talk about Rheaume's faceoff ability, he only won 48% of his faceoffs last year.

Fletch 10-24-2003 05:34 AM

I doubt too...
 
but I can hope? Why do I hope? Well, what's the reason Sather has held back on Mess' minutes thus far? About 13+, with little, if any, PP time. Has Sather 'gotten' it on Mess? If so, is he that stupid to un-get-it? Probably, but I'm trying too hard to understand Sather's logic.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-24-2003 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klingsor
Fletch, I doubt Sather's gonna give Rheaume Messier's PK time. With all the talk about Rheaume's faceoff ability, he only won 48% of his faceoffs last year.

And, if you read the Post today, he seems to be out of game shape.

I know that we are all skeptical but Mess has been the most consistent center thus far this season. He's actually played well.

Melrose_Jr. 10-24-2003 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I know that we are all skeptical but Mess has been the most consistent center thus far this season. He's actually played well.

Yah, but that's clearly a function of his reduced, more appropriate role on the team. Having seen Mark be put into the 1st/2nd line center role many times over the years, I'm not convinced the results are going to be much different this time around.

Davisian 10-24-2003 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I know that we are all skeptical but Mess has been the most consistent center thus far this season. He's actually played well.

He has played well and I don't mind his minutes going up right now.. Ride him while they can and run him into the ground.. Not that I want to see him injured, but he won't be healthier any other point in the season, so hammer him now..
Then when Lindros get's back, let's try to find some of that Mojo on the wing..
As in

Hlavac Nedved Kovalev

Barnaby Holik Lindros

Simon Messier Lundmark

LaCouture Rheaume Carter

Spreads a bit of beef (except the first line) and skill across the lines, and I don't know about anyone else, but I think Lindros is most effective these days on the wing..

Fletch 10-24-2003 06:12 AM

I agree MJ, but I'm hoping...
 
that because it is early in the season and he hasn't been overused/there's been a lot of time off, Mess is still fresh and I'm not too worried currently. If Lindros is only gone two weeks, it won't be so bad (especially if the horses pick up the slack, i.e., Kovalev, Nedved, Holik, Carter, etc.). And if Mess is with Lundmark and Rucinsky, it's not like he'll be with the two most productive wingers on the team.

Melrose_Jr. 10-24-2003 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davisian
Hlavac Nedved Kovalev

Barnaby Holik Lindros

Simon Messier Lundmark

LaCouture Rheaume Carter

No offense, but I freakin' hate those lines. If Erica can't play center anymore, then let Lundmark center him and keep a true scoring line intact. That Barnaby/Holik/Lindros BS was as useless as lines get.

Hlavac has to be benched before Rucinsky.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-24-2003 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
No offense, but I freakin' hate those lines. If Erica can't play center anymore, then let Lundmark center him and keep a true scoring line intact. That Barnaby/Holik/Lindros BS was as useless as lines get.

Hlavac has to be benched before Rucinsky.

I agree. By moving Lindros to the wing with Holik, you weaken two lines; the checking line and the first or second scoring line (depending on your perception).

Davisian 10-24-2003 06:54 AM

Well SCREW you two!!! These are my imaginary lines thank you!!!!

Alas, I see your point, but I liked the way those three played together last year, didn't seem useless to me and they just seem like they'd be a good change of pace from the Nedved line..

Also, configure it any way you like, but I firmly believe that Lindros is more effective on the wing at this point in his career..

And I'd agree on Ruchinsky/Hlavac and I'd include Carter in that bunch.. If this team really is going to dedicate itself to a tight checking team, I think there's already enough talent there with Nedved, Kovalev etc. that makes only two out of those three a need.. I'd lose one of them, package them with Malakhov and see what can come this way..


Ideally, say Hlavac is dealt (I don't care if its Ruchinsky either)

Go;

Ruchinsky Nedved Kovalev

Barnaby Moore Lindros

LaCouture Holik Lundmark

Simon Messier Carter

Gives Moore a spot to succeed, and spreads the talent around..

I think I just saw a pig fly by my window..

SingnBluesOnBroadway 10-24-2003 07:36 AM

I never understood why this team needed both Rucinsky and Hlavac. Seems like one would be enough.

True Blue 10-24-2003 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I know that we are all skeptical but Mess has been the most consistent center thus far this season. He's actually played well.

I am not saying that he has played badly. However, as I have been harping on, there are 3 reasons that he has looked good:
1. NOT playing 18+ minutes a night, and thus having more energy.
2. NOT going up against the top 2 lines or the top 2 defensive pairing. Things are a little different when you start going against the top players.
3. NOT swishing and dishing. By playing w/ Matty & Simon, Messier is forced to play a simple game. Have we forgotten all the giveaways that his blind, behind the back, through the legs passes cause? For all the talk of him as a playmaker, people seemed to have forgotten just how many times his play caused odd man rushes to go the other way.

Now you put him in a position where none of the 3 apply. More minutes mean less energy for the 42 year old. Playing on what is the 2nd line will ensure that he now will be going against the other teams top 2 lines & top 2 defensive pairing. He is going to be playing against a caliber of players that he can no longer compete for long stretches of time against. Take away Simon and Barnaby and it's is right back to making blind passes.
All in all, this is a recipe for disaster. Unless the Holik line will really be the #2 line in all but name. IF the Holik line is used against the other teams top lines and the Nedved line would go against the other teams #2, then Mess should be able to survive. However, that would require Sather to match lines and actually coach, something he seems to be reluctant to do. Look at how many times that we have already screamed about why Holik is not matched against the other teams top lines. The other teams will know this and try to make sure that one of the top 2 lines is on the line against Messier's line. If Jackass is stuck on thinking that Messier is truly a premier player still and not play the matching game, this could get ugly quickly.

Fletch 10-24-2003 08:26 AM

Rucinsky and Hlavac?
 
one for Lindros' left; one for Nedved's left.


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