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RGY 02-21-2006 10:58 AM

Rangers/Hartford for next year-who goes/who stays
 
Ivan Baranka D
Nigel Dawes F
Lee Falardeau F
Fedor Fedorov F
Colby Genoway F
Daniel Girardi D
Martin Grenier D
Alexandre Giroux F
Bruce Graham F
Dwight Helminen F
Jarkko Immonen F
Hugh Jessiman F
Bryce Lampman D
Dave Liffiton D
Thomas Pock D
Dale Purinton D
Byran Rodey D
Joe Rullier D
Martin SonnenbergF
Daniel Sparre F
Jake Taylor D
Craig Weller F
Chad Wiseman F

Al Montoya G
Robert Gherson G
Chris Holt G

Rick Kozak F
Bruce Graham F

Thats the current roster for Hartford/Charlotte. Now my questions are:
1--Who gets promoted to the Rangers?
2--Who comes to Hartford/Charlotte?
3--Who is dropped from Hartford to make room?
4--Who is dropped from the Rangers to make room?
5--Line combinations if you want.

Here's what I think:

1--Pock, Staal, Immonen, and maybe Dawes
2--Roche(h), Olver(h), Crabb(h), Moore(h), Dubinsky(h), Callahan(h), Potter(h), Guenin(c),Sauer(h), Walsh(c)
3--Sonnenberg, Rodey, Purinton, Fedorov, Sparre
4--not sure yet on who's dropped from the Rangers but Staal takes strudwicks spot.
5--i'll do the line combo's later.

Leslie Treff 02-21-2006 11:01 AM

Rory Rawlyk is also under contract to the Rangers.

Genoway is not Rangers' property (yet).

SingnBluesOnBroadway 02-21-2006 11:03 AM

I still don't think that Pock is an NHLer.

Avery316 02-21-2006 11:08 AM

Pock will be and NHLer once his play becomes consistent, I still have a lot of faith in this kid ever since he first emerged. Now we need to consider bringing Rachunek back.

True Blue 02-21-2006 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I still don't think that Pock is an NHLer.

The kid is putting up some serious numbers at the AHL level. This is not someone you simply giveaway or allow to walk away until you have seen if, at a minumum, his offensive game can translate from the AHL to the NHL.
If the Rangers staff is so good at teaching kids, seems to me that they could teach Pock how to play defense. If Poti can be taught to have an adequate defensive game, then Pock surely can.

BDubinskyNYR17* 02-21-2006 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch
Ivan Baranka D
Nigel Dawes F
Lee Falardeau F
Fedor Fedorov F
Colby Genoway F
Daniel Girardi D
Martin Grenier D
Alexandre Giroux F
Bruce Graham F
Dwight Helminen F
Jarkko Immonen F
Hugh Jessiman F
Bryce Lampman D
Dave Liffiton D
Thomas Pock D
Dale Purinton D
Byran Rodey D
Joe Rullier D
Martin SonnenbergF
Daniel Sparre F
Jake Taylor D
Craig Weller F
Chad Wiseman F

Al Montoya G
Robert Gherson G
Chris Holt G

Rick Kozak F
Bruce Graham F

Thats the current roster for Hartford/Charlotte. Now my questions are:
1--Who gets promoted to the Rangers?
2--Who comes to Hartford/Charlotte?
3--Who is dropped from Hartford to make room?
4--Who is dropped from the Rangers to make room?
5--Line combinations if you want.

Here's what I think:

1--Pock, Staal, Immonen, and maybe Dawes
2--Roche(h), Olver(h), Crabb(h), Moore(h), Dubinsky(h), Callahan(h), Potter(h), Guenin(c),Sauer(h), Walsh(c)
3--Sonnenberg, Rodey, Purinton, Fedorov, Sparre
4--not sure yet on who's dropped from the Rangers but Staal takes strudwicks spot.
5--i'll do the line combo's later.


Girardi and Genoway has to be signed by the Rangers, with their play this year in the AHL, I bet Sather signs both during or after the Pack Playoffs, once Fedorov and garbage like Purinton are released or dealt.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 02-21-2006 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
The kid is putting up some serious numbers at the AHL level. This is not someone you simply giveaway or allow to walk away until you have seen if, at a minumum, his offensive game can translate from the AHL to the NHL.
If the Rangers staff is so good at teaching kids, seems to me that they could teach Pock how to play defense. If Poti can be taught to have an adequate defensive game, then Pock surely can.


He is putting up numbers but there have been a lot of guys who scored in the A but could not take the next step.

True Blue 02-21-2006 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
He is putting up numbers but there have been a lot of guys who scored in the A but could not take the next step.

Definetly true. But that is why someone like Pock needs to be given a fair shot. If his offensive game does not translate to the NHL, then off he goes elsewhere. However, IF it does, then the Rangers have a serious offensive weapon.
The only way to find out is if he is given a fair chance and see if he can run with it or is another AAAA player.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 02-21-2006 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
Definetly true. But that is why someone like Pock needs to be given a fair shot. If his offensive game does not translate to the NHL, then off he goes elsewhere. However, IF it does, then the Rangers have a serious offensive weapon.
The only way to find out is if he is given a fair chance and see if he can run with it or is another AAAA player.


I'm not saying that he should not be given a shot. I just don't think the guy will ever end up being a player in the NHL.

And it seems like he's dropping down the depth chart (behind Staal and Sauer arguably behind Baranka). If the Rangers are serious about bringing Rachunek back to compete for a job, Pock drops even further. And they could upgrade via free agency.

Vodka Drunkenski 02-21-2006 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I'm not saying that he should not be given a shot. I just don't think the guy will ever end up being a player in the NHL.

And it seems like he's dropping down the depth chart (behind Staal and Sauer arguably behind Baranka). If the Rangers are serious about bringing Rachunek back to compete for a job, Pock drops even further. And they could upgrade via free agency.

I agree, well said! :clap:

nyranger61494 02-21-2006 12:05 PM

I think Guenin starts in Hartford. Is Sauer even eligible to be in the AHL next year, I thought he was too young?

True Blue 02-21-2006 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I'm not saying that he should not be given a shot. I just don't think the guy will ever end up being a player in the NHL.

And it seems like he's dropping down the depth chart (behind Staal and Sauer arguably behind Baranka). If the Rangers are serious about bringing Rachunek back to compete for a job, Pock drops even further. And they could upgrade via free agency.

Fair enough. However, in the context of next year, I see only Staal as someone who is going to have a better chance than Pock to play in the NHL. Sauer will be too young for Hartford so will probably be sent back to his junior team. I do not thik that Sauers' good play this year is anything like that of Staal who is showing himself to be virtually too good for juniors. Baranka I would like to see but get the feeling that the Rangers brass views him as being more of am '07-08 addittion, rather than next year. Until I see Rachunek here, I am not going to believe it. And do not think that there is much room for him here, IF an UFA is signed and a Rozsival is resigned.
That leaves only Lampman, who I would like to have a shot as well.

On another note, this just further illustrates why I am so much against Rozsival being brought back. I know that he probably will, but so much flexibility is lost by bringing him here. It's almost a scenario where a choice needs to be made of what is better, resigning Rozsival or signging a UFA defenseman. Without Rozsival, there are three spots available. Let's say a UFA signing makes it two. That would leave 2 spots for Staal, Lampman, Pock & Rachunek (if he comes over) to compete for. I would much rather have Staal & one of the other mentioned 3 (IF ready) & one UFA than 1 UFA, 1 Rozsival & 1 Staal.
Like I said, I know that Rozsival will be resigned, but IMO, much like Rucchin, Poti & Rucinsky, there is simply no room for him.

nrf83 02-21-2006 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
The kid is putting up some serious numbers at the AHL level. This is not someone you simply giveaway or allow to walk away until you have seen if, at a minumum, his offensive game can translate from the AHL to the NHL.
If the Rangers staff is so good at teaching kids, seems to me that they could teach Pock how to play defense. If Poti can be taught to have an adequate defensive game, then Pock surely can.

I agree, but he's playing for Schoeny and Ulf Sammy, you would think something might have rubbed off from those two?

SingnBluesOnBroadway 02-21-2006 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
Fair enough. However, in the context of next year, I see only Staal as someone who is going to have a better chance than Pock to play in the NHL. Sauer will be too young for Hartford so will probably be sent back to his junior team. I do not thik that Sauers' good play this year is anything like that of Staal who is showing himself to be virtually too good for juniors. Baranka I would like to see but get the feeling that the Rangers brass views him as being more of am '07-08 addittion, rather than next year. Until I see Rachunek here, I am not going to believe it. And do not think that there is much room for him here, IF an UFA is signed and a Rozsival is resigned.
That leaves only Lampman, who I would like to have a shot as well.

On another note, this just further illustrates why I am so much against Rozsival being brought back. I know that he probably will, but so much flexibility is lost by bringing him here. It's almost a scenario where a choice needs to be made of what is better, resigning Rozsival or signging a UFA defenseman. Without Rozsival, there are three spots available. Let's say a UFA signing makes it two. That would leave 2 spots for Staal, Lampman, Pock & Rachunek (if he comes over) to compete for. I would much rather have Staal & one of the other mentioned 3 (IF ready) & one UFA than 1 UFA, 1 Rozsival & 1 Staal.
Like I said, I know that Rozsival will be resigned, but IMO, much like Rucchin, Poti & Rucinsky, there is simply no room for him.

I'm actually concerned about next season. Staal has for all intents and purposes has nothing left to prove in juniors but he can't play in Hartford. And I just don't see a veteran that I would feel comfortable pairing him with right now that would give him the best chance of success at the NHL level.

You're higher on Lampman then I am but if he's in the mix, he needs a legit look at because it would appear that his window is closing (maybe I'm imagining that but I just get that feeling).

If Rozsival is resigned, and assuming he doesn't look for an enormous raise, I believe he will be, that's four spots filled (Rozsival, Kaspar, Malik, Tyutin). Throw Staal in the mix and a FA and I just don't know where Pock fits in.

Balej20* 02-21-2006 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
The kid is putting up some serious numbers at the AHL level. This is not someone you simply giveaway or allow to walk away until you have seen if, at a minumum, his offensive game can translate from the AHL to the NHL.
If the Rangers staff is so good at teaching kids, seems to me that they could teach Pock how to play defense. If Poti can be taught to have an adequate defensive game, then Pock surely can.

Very good point. I still think Pock could turn out to be a very good PP QB and puck pusher

True Blue 02-21-2006 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
You're higher on Lampman then I am but if he's in the mix, he needs a legit look at because it would appear that his window is closing (maybe I'm imagining that but I just get that feeling).

If Rozsival is resigned, and assuming he doesn't look for an enormous raise, I believe he will be, that's four spots filled (Rozsival, Kaspar, Malik, Tyutin). Throw Staal in the mix and a FA and I just don't know where Pock fits in.

That is why Rozsival does not fit in. If we go on the presumption that 1) Rozsival gets resigned 2) a UFA defenseman will be brought in 3) Staal will not be returned to his junior team, all of those essentialy end any hope of Pock, Lampman or Rachunek playing on the team. Not just next year, but pretty much ever. Resigning Rozsival (which, IMO, will happen) is still being burned by the "one vet too many" theory. Having him play next year, will end any hope that Pock, Rachunek or Lampman may have.

DarthSather99 02-21-2006 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyranger61494
I think Guenin starts in Hartford. Is Sauer even eligible to be in the AHL next year, I thought he was too young?


Sauer I believe has to play one more year in Portland if he doesn't make the NHL. Same deal as Staal but Staal WILL make the Rangers.

DarthSather99 02-21-2006 03:24 PM

Also, Korpikoski will be in Hartford next year.

romba 02-21-2006 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthSather99
Also, Korpikoski will be in Hartford next year.

What he said.

shoothepuck 02-21-2006 03:41 PM

Anyone putting up good numbers in the AHL should be given a real good look. Also, in a rebuilding team, most players in the farm system should get a chance at the big club if they show potential, as you would think that the training and team concept/system, is basically the same. Players should be able to be brought up and plugged into the system and play. Trades can always be made, but why have a farm system if it is not going to be used effectively.

nrf83 02-21-2006 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
That is why Rozsival does not fit in. If we go on the presumption that 1) Rozsival gets resigned 2) a UFA defenseman will be brought in 3) Staal will not be returned to his junior team, all of those essentialy end any hope of Pock, Lampman or Rachunek playing on the team. Not just next year, but pretty much ever. Resigning Rozsival (which, IMO, will happen) is still being burned by the "one vet too many" theory. Having him play next year, will end any hope that Pock, Rachunek or Lampman may have.

You make it sound like a bad thing when we resign Rozsieval. I think its good. He's only 26, good all around Dman. If Pock, Rachunek, Lampman or any other Dman cannot beat him out, TS. Don't go overboard on this rebuild, young guys still have to play NHL hockey. These things have a waty of working themselves out at training camp. IMO your one vet to many theory doesn't wash. D looks like: Malik, Kasper, Rozsieval, Tyutin, Staal, Rachunek and let everyone else fight for last spot. I like that D. No need to spend $6-7 mil on Dman. Financially does not make sense. We both agree that Chara and Redden are staying put. I'm guessing so is McCabe. So who is out there as a UFA that we need so desperately; I'm saying Baranka, Pock, Lampman can all fill the need for 6-7 Dman.

BigCanada77 02-21-2006 04:19 PM

I hope Pock has improved enough to make the club next year, because he isn't there yet and its buggin the heck out of me. He's so good offensively, he makes you want him just for his big shot on the PP. But his defensive liabilities makes me shy away from Tommy. Does anyone see any chance of Sather dealin him before/after the deadline?

True Blue 02-21-2006 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrf83
You make it sound like a bad thing when we resign Rozsieval. I think its good. He's only 26, good all around Dman. If Pock, Rachunek, Lampman or any other Dman cannot beat him out, TS.

And if they can? Considering that the camp that Lampman and Pock had was at a minimun as bad or good as Rozsival's was. Please let's recall that the first three months of the season, Rozsival was widely considered the worst defenseman on the team.

Quote:

Don't go overboard on this rebuild, young guys still have to play NHL hockey. These things have a waty of working themselves out at training camp.
Sure it does. By having deserving would-be rookies sent back to Hartford. Like the case this year.

Quote:

IMO your one vet to many theory doesn't wash. D looks like: Malik, Kasper, Rozsieval, Tyutin, Staal, Rachunek and let everyone else fight for last spot.
It begins to wash when you have a UFA defenseman brought in, which would leave no room for anyone not named Staal.

Quote:

I like that D.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I would prefer to upgrade, which, given some of the names you name, is pretty easy to do.

Quote:

No need to spend $6-7 mil on Dman. Financially does not make sense.
It makes perfect sense. First of all, if you are not signing Redden or Chara, then you are not signing a defenseman for the amount of money that you are claiming. The Rangers are around $5m under the cap. When Rucchin & Poti come of, that is another $5m. Plus, presumably the cap will increase around $2m. Use the money and upgrade the place where you are the weakest at. And there is no place more mediocre than the starting defense.

Quote:

We both agree that Chara and Redden are staying put. I'm guessing so is McCabe. So who is out there as a UFA that we need so desperately; I'm saying Baranka, Pock, Lampman can all fill the need for 6-7 Dman.
Who is a defenseman that would represent an instant upgrade over what is a pretty mediocre defesnse? You named McCabe. But you forgot about Jovo, Witt, Mitchell, Norstrom, Gauthier, Morris....etc....
And you cannot develop players by having them be the 7th defenseman. That is what Strudwick is for.

RGY 02-21-2006 05:32 PM

I forgot about Rachunek. And I wasnt sure on Sauer's status. So with Sauer going back that could keep Girardi in Hartford, otherwise I didnt see him playing with Guenin and Potter coming in.

I dont know what the Rangers should do. If they bring in a UFA defenseman then younger players get blocked such as Pock, Rachunek, and Baranka.

I dont think Rozsival should be re-signed. I think the Rangers defense should look like this:

Rachunek-Chara/Redden/Poti
Staal-Malik
Kaspar-Tyutin

I think there are only two defenseman worth signing and thats Chara or Redden, no one else. McCabe is too undisciplined and the others just arent worth money and I'd rather just re-sign Poti.

Fletch 02-21-2006 06:18 PM

I'd keep Rozsival...
 
over Rachunek. The guy didn't want to be here. While I've been critical of Rozsival, the guy took a cheap contract and played here to prove himself. Further, he's fit in, as most on the current Rangers roster have fit in. Rachunek is exactly the type of player that the Rangers should be staying away from - a guy who wants to be paid like a star but hasn't really put it together to warrant such a salary, and who really didn't want to be part of the organization until it started winning (assuming he's interested now). Just like I wanted to keep Schneider over Malakhov, because he wanted to be here, as opposed to someone coming in just for the money, but with all the potential.

I also have a hard time believing that Rozsival will not be resigned this season, and I'd be surprised if Sather didn't sign him to a two or three year deal.


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