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-   -   A trade to win you the cup!!! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=225271)

viper111 02-26-2006 10:49 PM

A trade to win you the cup!!!
 
Samsonov-Boynton-Leetch-Green and a second for Jeff Carter-Brashear. Yes I know you don't want to trade Carter but with these guys you will be front runners for the cup. Also it will fit in the cap and I really think you guys will get the silver mug. Remember Green is a real good face off man and plays excellent in the play offs.

Dig Out Your Soul 02-26-2006 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper111
Samsonov-Boynton-Leetch-Green and a second for Jeff Carter-Brashear. Yes I know you don't want to trade Carter but with these guys you will be front runners for the cup. Also it will fit in the cap and I really think you guys will get the silver mug. Remember Green is a real good face off man and plays excellent in the play offs.

I don't really like Travis Green, for starters. Handzus is already a monster in the face-off circle.

Samsonov, yes, that would be nice. His speed and shifty play would be welcomed.

Leetch, I'm not sure how much he has left - I wasn't overly impressed when I watched him play with the Leafs a couple years ago, what's his season been like?

Boynton, from what I understand, is just another big and slow defenseman that we don't need. I could be wrong. I haven't spent a lot of time watching Boston this year.

Trading Brashear AND his contract is too good to be true and trading Jeff Carter for the players mentioned above is not really worth it. Remember, this isn't NHL 2006 where quantity=quality. Samsonov is the one player that interests me because I believe the Flyers' defense will be fine as long as it's healthy, but he alone is not worth Jeff Carter. Boston should've phoned up Clarke when Thornton was on the block if they wanted to do a deal that involved Carter. ;)

TheKingPin 02-26-2006 11:27 PM

How about two seconds and future considerations for Samsonov?

Vikke 02-26-2006 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyersphan
How about two seconds and future considerations for Samsonov?

Or a 2nd and Umberger. Or Brashear :sarcasm:

VaFlyer 02-26-2006 11:52 PM

Well, even getting rid of the Brashear salary, the Flyers cannot take on both Samsonov and Leetch.

mikedifr 02-26-2006 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikke
Or a 2nd and Umberger. Or Brashear :sarcasm:

AHHH!!! Stop trading Umberger. I am sure I will get flamed for this but this is my opinion. I think we should stick with our roster unless we can add something for draft picks and prospects not on the current roster. I think this team has a better shot at the cup next year than this year. I do not think we should trade anyone significant from the current roster (this does not include Brashear, Therien, Savage, Stevenson) I highly doubt Richards and/or Carter are going anywhere but I dont want to trade Umberger either. He plays well with Carter and they show good potnetial to be the 2nd line next year with a good RW. Have we not learned anything from the Tampa Bay Lightning? They let all their young players play together for a couple years and added a couple veterans here and there to get them over the hump. I think we need to do the same. In my mind, pending something unbelievable, the following are basically untouchable - Gagne, Handzus, Umberger, Carter, Richards, Pitkanen, Nittymaki, and then the vets Forsberg, Hatcher, Knuble


I think the team has a great shot this year if they can add a good 5-6 dman and a solid winger. As always it depends on whether one of the goalies can get hot. I am looking at a lineup next year of
Gagne Forsberg Knuble
Umberger Carter FA (Langenbrunner?)/Trade
Handzus Richards Rado
Eager Primeau?/Ellison/FA Kapanen

Pitkanen Rathje
Hatcher Johnsson/Morris/Kubina
Meyer FA

No if someone blows us a way and we can get a good winger who is still relatively young for Umberger (Doan) then I guess I will live with it but I dont think we should trade him. Cant forget about chemistry. This team has a lot of talent on it but I think it is dangerously close to having too much talent that does not fit together. There are too many centers that have been converted to wing and I dont want another one. Yes, I know Forsberg can play wing if he has to but he has never done it on a regular basis.

VaFlyer 02-26-2006 11:56 PM

I wonder what it would take just to get Boyton and Samsonov. How about Umberger, Eager and Jones? Would that work?

Jester 02-27-2006 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedifr
AHHH!!! Stop trading Umberger. I am sure I will get flamed for this but this is my opinion. I think we should stick with our roster unless we can add something for draft picks and prospects not on the current roster. I think this team has a better shot at the cup next year than this year. I do not think we should trade anyone significant from the current roster (this does not include Brashear, Therien, Savage, Stevenson) I highly doubt Richards and/or Carter are going anywhere but I dont want to trade Umberger either. He plays well with Carter and they show good potnetial to be the 2nd line next year with a good RW. Have we not learned anything from the Tampa Bay Lightning? They let all their young players play together for a couple years and added a couple veterans here and there to get them over the hump. I think we need to do the same. In my mind, pending something unbelievable, the following are basically untouchable - Gagne, Handzus, Umberger, Carter, Richards, Pitkanen, Nittymaki, and then the vets Forsberg, Hatcher, Knuble


I think the team has a great shot this year if they can add a good 5-6 dman and a solid winger. As always it depends on whether one of the goalies can get hot. I am looking at a lineup next year of
Gagne Forsberg Knuble
Umberger Carter FA (Langenbrunner?)/Trade
Handzus Richards Rado
Eager Primeau?/Ellison/FA Kapanen

Pitkanen Rathje
Hatcher Johnsson/Morris/Kubina
Meyer FA

No if someone blows us a way and we can get a good winger who is still relatively young for Umberger (Doan) then I guess I will live with it but I dont think we should trade him. Cant forget about chemistry. This team has a lot of talent on it but I think it is dangerously close to having too much talent that does not fit together. There are too many centers that have been converted to wing and I dont want another one. Yes, I know Forsberg can play wing if he has to but he has never done it on a regular basis.

I like Umberger, but definitely view him as expendable if the right player is coming back on the other side of the deal. With players like Ruzicka, Potulny, Downie... However, moving Umberger would have to be for a significant return. Jokinen is my target as of now, but the problem with him is that you definitely want to have a thought to the idea of trying to sign him past this year if you deal for him...

not sure i'm convinced Doan is going to move yet.

viper111 02-27-2006 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaFlyer
I wonder what it would take just to get Boyton and Samsonov. How about Umberger, Eager and Jones? Would that work?

No. Boston won't trade Boynton, unless a big name young guy comes back. Umberger and a second for Samsonov and Leetch could work. Also the Flyers would have cap room for the first deal. The first deal would only add abou 1.6 mil to the payroll.

RoDu 02-27-2006 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedifr
AHHH!!! Stop trading Umberger. I am sure I will get flamed for this but this is my opinion. I think we should stick with our roster unless we can add something for draft picks and prospects not on the current roster. I think this team has a better shot at the cup next year than this year. I do not think we should trade anyone significant from the current roster (this does not include Brashear, Therien, Savage, Stevenson) I highly doubt Richards and/or Carter are going anywhere but I dont want to trade Umberger either. He plays well with Carter and they show good potnetial to be the 2nd line next year with a good RW. Have we not learned anything from the Tampa Bay Lightning? They let all their young players play together for a couple years and added a couple veterans here and there to get them over the hump. I think we need to do the same. In my mind, pending something unbelievable, the following are basically untouchable - Gagne, Handzus, Umberger, Carter, Richards, Pitkanen, Nittymaki, and then the vets Forsberg, Hatcher, Knuble


I think the team has a great shot this year if they can add a good 5-6 dman and a solid winger. As always it depends on whether one of the goalies can get hot. I am looking at a lineup next year of
Gagne Forsberg Knuble
Umberger Carter FA (Langenbrunner?)/Trade
Handzus Richards Rado
Eager Primeau?/Ellison/FA Kapanen

Pitkanen Rathje
Hatcher Johnsson/Morris/Kubina
Meyer FA

No if someone blows us a way and we can get a good winger who is still relatively young for Umberger (Doan) then I guess I will live with it but I dont think we should trade him. Cant forget about chemistry. This team has a lot of talent on it but I think it is dangerously close to having too much talent that does not fit together. There are too many centers that have been converted to wing and I dont want another one. Yes, I know Forsberg can play wing if he has to but he has never done it on a regular basis.

Agreed. But the biggest reason I wouldn't make any drastic trades is the way the team has been playing. Hear me out. Untill the Flyers make an actuall effort to show up on a consistant basis, it's almost not evan worth doing anything. It would be a waste to make some moves just to have the team continue to slide

mikedifr 02-27-2006 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
I like Umberger, but definitely view him as expendable if the right player is coming back on the other side of the deal. With players like Ruzicka, Potulny, Downie... However, moving Umberger would have to be for a significant return. Jokinen is my target as of now, but the problem with him is that you definitely want to have a thought to the idea of trying to sign him past this year if you deal for him...

not sure i'm convinced Doan is going to move yet.


I like Jokinen, dont get me wrong but I always try to think about who a player is going to play with when he gets here. For example, when they signed Forsberg is was completely obvious that he would be a great pairing for Gagne based on their respective skill sets. They obtained Nedved and the first thing I thought was that he always played his best as a LW on a line with European players. The first thing I thought was play him on LW with Handzus and Rado. With Jokinen it brings up a lot of uncertainty to me. Are we moving Forsberg to the wing? Is Jokinen playing the wing with Nedved or vice versa? What does that mean for ice time for Richards and Carter? Who does Carter play with if he isnt playing with Umberger. I just see the same thing happening to Carter that happened to Gagne for part of his career in the fact that they are oth shooters and need to be paired with players that fit with them. I dont want Carter's development to suffer because we decided to bring in another center. I think Umberger fits Carter well and paired with a good playmaking RW (Langenbrunner, Recchi) I think is a perfect 2nd line next year and could even do damage this year. On paper is Jokinen > Umberger right now? Definitely. Is Jokinen probably the more talented player for his career? Most likely. However, we have been through the "lets bring in a bunch of talented players that dont fit together era" before and I dont want to do it again. We need to win this year or next assuming Forsberg is not going to stay and I think chemistry will play a big part in that. Who knows, maybe Jokinen gets here and plays LW with Carter for a long time, you never know, I just rather spend the money elsewhere this year knowing that Carter/Umberger can be the 2nd line next year with a good RW and Richards being the 3rd liner.

Hey, I guess we will see in the next couple weeks.

Jester 02-27-2006 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedifr
I like Jokinen, dont get me wrong but I always try to think about who a player is going to play with when he gets here. For example, when they signed Forsberg is was completely obvious that he would be a great pairing for Gagne based on their respective skill sets. They obtained Nedved and the first thing I thought was that he always played his best as a LW on a line with European players. The first thing I thought was play him on LW with Handzus and Rado. With Jokinen it brings up a lot of uncertainty to me. Are we moving Forsberg to the wing? Is Jokinen playing the wing with Nedved or vice versa? What does that mean for ice time for Richards and Carter? Who does Carter play with if he isnt playing with Umberger. I just see the same thing happening to Carter that happened to Gagne for part of his career in the fact that they are oth shooters and need to be paired with players that fit with them. I dont want Carter's development to suffer because we decided to bring in another center. I think Umberger fits Carter well and paired with a good playmaking RW (Langenbrunner, Recchi) I think is a perfect 2nd line next year and could even do damage this year. On paper is Jokinen > Umberger right now? Definitely. Is Jokinen probably the more talented player for his career? Most likely. However, we have been through the "lets bring in a bunch of talented players that dont fit together era" before and I dont want to do it again. We need to win this year or next assuming Forsberg is not going to stay and I think chemistry will play a big part in that. Who knows, maybe Jokinen gets here and plays LW with Carter for a long time, you never know, I just rather spend the money elsewhere this year knowing that Carter/Umberger can be the 2nd line next year with a good RW and Richards being the 3rd liner.

Hey, I guess we will see in the next couple weeks.

i threw out what i would put as lines in the other thread... Carter is stuck between a rock and a hard place this season... sorta the way it is going to be.

Dig Out Your Soul 02-27-2006 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedifr
I like Jokinen, dont get me wrong but I always try to think about who a player is going to play with when he gets here. For example, when they signed Forsberg is was completely obvious that he would be a great pairing for Gagne based on their respective skill sets. They obtained Nedved and the first thing I thought was that he always played his best as a LW on a line with European players. The first thing I thought was play him on LW with Handzus and Rado. With Jokinen it brings up a lot of uncertainty to me. Are we moving Forsberg to the wing? Is Jokinen playing the wing with Nedved or vice versa? What does that mean for ice time for Richards and Carter? Who does Carter play with if he isnt playing with Umberger. I just see the same thing happening to Carter that happened to Gagne for part of his career in the fact that they are oth shooters and need to be paired with players that fit with them. I dont want Carter's development to suffer because we decided to bring in another center. I think Umberger fits Carter well and paired with a good playmaking RW (Langenbrunner, Recchi) I think is a perfect 2nd line next year and could even do damage this year. On paper is Jokinen > Umberger right now? Definitely. Is Jokinen probably the more talented player for his career? Most likely. However, we have been through the "lets bring in a bunch of talented players that dont fit together era" before and I dont want to do it again. We need to win this year or next assuming Forsberg is not going to stay and I think chemistry will play a big part in that. Who knows, maybe Jokinen gets here and plays LW with Carter for a long time, you never know, I just rather spend the money elsewhere this year knowing that Carter/Umberger can be the 2nd line next year with a good RW and Richards being the 3rd liner.

Hey, I guess we will see in the next couple weeks.

I notice in a lot of your posts, you mention acquiring Langenbrunner over the summer. I think that's an awesome idea, personally. He'd be perfect - a right-handed shot who can play just about any game you want him to.

mikedifr 02-27-2006 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippyime
I notice in a lot of your posts, you mention acquiring Langenbrunner over the summer. I think that's an awesome idea, personally. He'd be perfect - a right-handed shot who can play just about any game you want him to.

Yes. Assuming Umberger is still here, I was looking at a line of Umberger Carter Langenbrunner. I think he complements Carter well in that he is a decent passer/playmaker. Wont hurt the line defensively, and provides some leadership to the younger players. He still has several years left in him as well. He has won two cups, is familiar with Hitch and unlike most people we bring here (minus Forsberg) he steps it up a level in the playoffs.

Jester 02-27-2006 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedifr
Yes. Assuming Umberger is still here, I was looking at a line of Umberger Carter Langenbrunner. I think he complements Carter well in that he is a decent passer/playmaker. Wont hurt the line defensively, and provides some leadership to the younger players. He still has several years left in him as well. He has won two cups, is familiar with Hitch and unlike most people we bring here (minus Forsberg) he steps it up a level in the playoffs.

i'm sorta giddy to see Richards in the playoffs... gotta be honest, i think he's going to "elevate" big time... trying to keep expectations down.

mikedifr 02-27-2006 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
i'm sorta giddy to see Richards in the playoffs... gotta be honest, i think he's going to "elevate" big time... trying to keep expectations down.

I agree with you. He seems to be that type of player. If he isnt this year, he most certainly will be for his career IMO.

Dig Out Your Soul 02-27-2006 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
i'm sorta giddy to see Richards in the playoffs... gotta be honest, i think he's going to "elevate" big time... trying to keep expectations down.

I'm feeling the same way. I've seen what he does in the big game situations and it's been a long time coming for me to see him do it at the highest level. He will not disappoint.

Vikke 02-27-2006 01:12 AM

I'm with you on that one, Jester.

I'm trying to find a comparable player. Sundin? :D

MojoJojo 02-27-2006 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper111
Samsonov-Boynton-Leetch-Green and a second for Jeff Carter-Brashear. Yes I know you don't want to trade Carter but with these guys you will be front runners for the cup. Also it will fit in the cap and I really think you guys will get the silver mug. Remember Green is a real good face off man and plays excellent in the play offs.

You know, I might actually do this. Boynton-Leetch would give us awsome depth on the blue line. Samsonov would solidify the second line (which we need). Green, meh. A good hard working player I guess. We would need him to replace Brash on the fourth. Dont discount the value of second round picks. We ultimatley lose this trade in the future (Carter will be awsome), but I agree for the present it could very well push us over the edge.

facts 02-27-2006 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper111
No. Boston won't trade Boynton, unless a big name young guy comes back. Umberger and a second for Samsonov and Leetch could work. Also the Flyers would have cap room for the first deal. The first deal would only add abou 1.6 mil to the payroll.

This is a team that dealt Joe Thornton whom was under a new contract so don't tell me they wouldn't trade Boynton and Samsonov. Actually this is probably one of the better proposals on this board.

BringBackStevens 02-27-2006 10:41 AM

my take -

stay pat. while a guy like jokinen or doan would certainly help, i think we have a team that is much better than a lot of people think - probobly due to the recent slide where we were missing 1/3 of our roster. i am not in favor of trading umberger, but i wouldnt object to adding a guy like parrish for a pick or two.

VaFlyer 02-27-2006 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper111
No. Boston won't trade Boynton, unless a big name young guy comes back. Umberger and a second for Samsonov and Leetch could work. Also the Flyers would have cap room for the first deal. The first deal would only add abou 1.6 mil to the payroll.

I don't want to sound stupid, but you started the thread and threw Boyton's name into the mix.

"Samsonov-Boynton-Leetch-Green and a second for Jeff Carter-Brashear. "

We cannot afford all of those guys, especially Leetch's 4 million dollar price tag. I pulled Leetch and Green out of the mix as well as removing Carter from the mix.

A Flock Of Seguins 02-27-2006 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by facts
This is a team that dealt Joe Thornton whom was under a new contract so don't tell me they wouldn't trade Boynton and Samsonov. Actually this is probably one of the better proposals on this board.

This is a team that, despite MOC, isn't dumb enough to trade such an important winger as Sammy without getting a winger back. They need a genuine 2nd line center but aren't going to instantly destroy that 2nd line by trading the key player on it. The 2nd liner is needed to unlock Sammy and Muzz who've been playing with losers, if anything Boynton is the more likely trade as the D is relatively anchored over there, although Leetch is the favourable trade-loss as he doesn't fit in Boston. He's as useful as ever on the powerplay and still a totally solid D-man, not worth quite the money he's on but definitely valuable as a Blue-line anchor rental.

Doubtful, expect to see Leetch go somewhere they're crying out for a PP and Blueline rock for a relatively good playmaking center, though with MOC missing the obvious pickups in Reinprecht/Nedved, I doubt a clever trade is coming out of this, though Cajanek's name has been floating around which I oddly like the sound of.

budscweizer16 02-27-2006 02:09 PM

If there was any year to go for it this is it. I wouldnt hate it if Bob made a big deal to get some more help, I feel like we are very close, but just need to add 1 or 2 more guys. I wouldnt want to trade any of the young guys, but if we could get a Tkachuk or Doan back i would take a long hard look at it.

MojoJojo 02-27-2006 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaFlyer
We cannot afford all of those guys, especially Leetch's 4 million dollar price tag. I pulled Leetch and Green out of the mix as well as removing Carter from the mix.

Actually I think we can afford them when you consider that the cap is for total salary paid in a year and not the teams instantaneous payroll. If we only have to pay a quarter of these players salary if we trade for them at the deadline, it might actually work out since we reputedly have 2.2 mil in cap room. If these numbers are correct (a big if, IMO) we can take on about 8 mil in terms of a players yearly salary. Since we would also lose Brash and Carter's salary in the trade proposal, we could afford about 11 mil in yearly salary.


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