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LALALALALALAFONTAINE 10-26-2003 05:15 PM

Ricci
 
What would San Jose want/need for Ricci? What is his contract status?

RoyIsALegend* 10-26-2003 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
What would San Jose want/need for Ricci? What is his contract status?

He's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season, and my estimation on what he'd cost is a current, younger NHL forward along with a draft choice.

cyrisweb 10-26-2003 10:23 PM

How about a package of Sopel, and Umberger for Ricci and..

Does SJ need a offensive dman?

Kevin Forbes 10-27-2003 01:14 AM

for a UFA at season's end?
I'd say a pick or a prospect should do the trick

BigDaddy 10-27-2003 04:47 AM

Can he play left wing at all?

He may look good in an Ottawa uniform. Perhaps a trade deadline acqusition for an early pick (2nd rounder?)

Motown Beatdown 10-27-2003 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddy
Can he play left wing at all?

He may look good in an Ottawa uniform. Perhaps a trade deadline acqusition for an early pick (2nd rounder?)


I would think Scott Thornton would be a better fit for the Sens. If healthy he provides the Sens the "bigger, tougher" forward they lack.



As a Wings fan, i would like to see Ken Holland try and get Vinny Damphousse from San Jose.

Shark Attack 10-27-2003 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrisweb
How about a package of Sopel, and Umberger for Ricci and..

Does SJ need a offensive dman?

SJ would want a forward not a defender plus a pick or prospect. Sopel does not fit that category and with Umberger unsigned, no thanks. SJ can get more at the trade deadline.

CHomp, CHomp

incawg 10-27-2003 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark Attack
SJ would want a forward not a defender plus a pick or prospect. Sopel does not fit that category and with Umberger unsigned, no thanks. SJ can get more at the trade deadline.

CHomp, CHomp

Smolinksi fetched the unsigned gleason last year and that was considered to be many to be overpaying. There is no way the canucks would offer sopel and umberger. Sharks fans better temper their expectations if they're expecting to get more than that.

Shark Attack 10-27-2003 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incawg
Smolinksi fetched the unsigned gleason last year and that was considered to be many to be overpaying. There is no way the canucks would offer sopel and umberger. Sharks fans better temper their expectations if they're expecting to get more than that.

Different players and situations....Sopel is not necessarily needed as SJ has alot of defenders at the moment, a better fit would be a forward. As for Umberger an unsigned 3rd liner (some feel he has more potential but most do not at this point) whereas Gleason is projected as top line pair defender. It all probably boils down to whether one thinks Umberger is a top six forward. My question to you is if he is so good, why hasn't Vancouver signed him?

Chomp, Chomp

Kevin Forbes 10-27-2003 07:11 AM

still for a projected UFA at the end of the season.....
a lot of these proposals (RoyIsALegend, cyrisweb and perhaps SharkAttack) are a bit of overpaying
He's a third liner and going to be a UFA
I would think it would be unlikely that the Sharks would get a player who is currently playing in the NHL

Coffey77 10-27-2003 07:19 AM

IMO, the Wings would be better off trying to get Ricci or Thornton than Damphousse. They are gritty players that are both 2 way players. Detroit already has enough finesse guys anyway.

Wingboy2999 10-27-2003 07:51 AM

I wouldn't mind Ricci on the Wings. Only drawback is he is a former Av. I do like him however and he could help out or more defensive minded team.

NFITO 10-27-2003 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark Attack
Different players and situations....Sopel is not necessarily needed as SJ has alot of defenders at the moment, a better fit would be a forward. As for Umberger an unsigned 3rd liner (some feel he has more potential but most do not at this point) whereas Gleason is projected as top line pair defender. It all probably boils down to whether one thinks Umberger is a top six forward. My question to you is if he is so good, why hasn't Vancouver signed him?

Chomp, Chomp

If Gleason was considered a top pairing dman, why didn't Ottawa sign him?

how is this any different?? on the one hand you're saying that Gleason is a better prospect and is a top pairing guy, then saying that Umberger isn't as good or valuable because he's not signed??

to get a *realistic* value of a soon to be UFA player, look at past deals done at the deadline... I'm sure in nearly every case you will find that a soon to be UFA is worth closer to a 2nd, 3rd round draft pick, than an NHL ready player.

it also depends a lot on where the Sharks are at that point... if they are continuing their current play, and prove to be a non-playoff team at the deadline, they will move their UFAs for a lot less... if the Sharks can still make the playoffs at that stage, then they will likely hold on to him - or want more for him to move him.

If we're looking at last year's Sharks as an example, I'd say an Umberger for Ricci deal is more than fair.... Ricci hasn't exactly been on fire the past couple years to demand more in value as a 2 month rental player either (assuming he and the Sharks don't turn it around this year).

Shark Attack 10-27-2003 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
If Gleason was considered a top pairing dman, why didn't Ottawa sign him?

how is this any different?? on the one hand you're saying that Gleason is a better prospect and is a top pairing guy, then saying that Umberger isn't as good or valuable because he's not signed??

to get a *realistic* value of a soon to be UFA player, look at past deals done at the deadline... I'm sure in nearly every case you will find that a soon to be UFA is worth closer to a 2nd, 3rd round draft pick, than an NHL ready player.

it also depends a lot on where the Sharks are at that point... if they are continuing their current play, and prove to be a non-playoff team at the deadline, they will move their UFAs for a lot less... if the Sharks can still make the playoffs at that stage, then they will likely hold on to him - or want more for him to move him.

If we're looking at last year's Sharks as an example, I'd say an Umberger for Ricci deal is more than fair.... Ricci hasn't exactly been on fire the past couple years to demand more in value as a 2 month rental player either (assuming he and the Sharks don't turn it around this year).

What I was saying is that Gleason and Umburger are percieved differently. Gleason was projected as first line pairing and Umberger is now projected as a 3rd or 4th liner. And at this point I believe the concensus is that Umberger is viewed as unsignable unless you overpay the contract.

I agree that Ricci may not fetch as much as one would like but for just an unsigned player (that may not sign) SJ can do better.

And realistically, SJ gets 25 wins max.

CHomp, CHomp

incawg 10-27-2003 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark Attack
What I was saying is that Gleason and Umburger are percieved differently. Gleason was projected as first line pairing and Umberger is now projected as a 3rd or 4th liner. And at this point I believe the concensus is that Umberger is viewed as unsignable unless you overpay the contract.

You really need to get your facts straight. Umberger is asking for 900k the canucks are offering 725k. The difference in Gleason's contract was larger. The stalemate isn't a matter money as it is one of principal from both sides. The canucks are notriously hard-nosed about these sorts of things and Umberger does not want to sign for less than his teammate.

Umberger is "now" projected to be a 3rd or 4th liner? lol. His status has barely changed. He's still a very solid prospect - a hobey baker finalist in fact. It's debatable whether he's a better or worse prospect than gleason, but either way it's pretty close.

Like I said, value-wise you won't get anything close to sopel and umberger offered to you for ricci.

Wingboy2999 10-27-2003 09:17 AM

Umberger and maybe a 6th for Ricci would seem more realistic to me. I'd put Gleason a little higher then Umberger and Ricci a little lower then Smolinski. Would this work?

Shark Attack 10-27-2003 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incawg
You really need to get your facts straight. Umberger is asking for 900k the canucks are offering 725k. The difference in Gleason's contract was larger. The stalemate isn't a matter money as it is one of principal from both sides. The canucks are notriously hard-nosed about these sorts of things and Umberger does not want to sign for less than his teammate.

Umberger is "now" projected to be a 3rd or 4th liner? lol. His status has barely changed. He's still a very solid prospect - a hobey baker finalist in fact. It's debatable whether he's a better or worse prospect than gleason, but either way it's pretty close.

Like I said, value-wise you won't get anything close to sopel and umberger offered to you for ricci.

Yes I know the difference between the base and actually I thought they were $300K apart on that. However the issue has really to do with the bonus incentives. I believe those are the facts (I do try.)

Ever hear of Jason Krog??? He was a Hobey Baker finalist, so was Mike Mottau. Nice award college award, but does not always translate into being a star or even a successfull NHL player. Yes I know abour Kariya and Drury.....as Hobey Baker award winners....

And yes, I have seen where Umberger is now being projected as a 3/4 liner and not a 1/2 liner, big difference IMO. And those were by Vancouver fans, not SJ ones.

I don't disagree on the value of the deal at all, it is very good. Just that SJ needs an established forward not a defender (Sopel).

Chomp, Chomp

NFITO 10-27-2003 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingboy2999
Umberger and maybe a 6th for Ricci would seem more realistic to me. I'd put Gleason a little higher then Umberger and Ricci a little lower then Smolinski. Would this work?

yea... I think that's reasonable...

I'd suggest that the pick even be higher, a conditional pick based on Umberger's 1st season or something? and/or if Ricci re-signs with the Canucks.

as a fan, I'd do this trade, because I love Ricci, and would love to see him on a 3rd unit with Cooke and Linden!

but from a Canucks POV, I don't know if Burke does this deal... Umberger is still a good prospect for us, and they aren't that far apart on salary... he's still probably the prospect with the highest offensive potential on our team (realistically speaking, as Fedor should be, but he's still a risk).

WhoIsJimBob 10-27-2003 09:46 AM

Quote:

Yes I know abour Kariya and Drury.....as Hobey Baker award winners....
Don't forget Ryan Miller and Petr Sejna....... :D

NFITO 10-27-2003 10:10 AM

... and Brendan Morrison!

Jordan Leopold won it couple years ago too (before Sejna).

Teezax 10-27-2003 10:57 AM

Ricci will get a lot of attention from the Flyers if he were on the market. Clarke has shown interest in landing him before. Ricci would be an ideal fit for our organization and I'd be willing to give up the following to land him.

Seidenberg Fedoruk and a 2nd

Sharks get a more than decent D-Prospect, an enforcer with some speed, and a second round pick.

More than fair.

Ajacied 10-27-2003 09:15 PM

He would something between the Barnes and Kono deal. A pick in a 2nd/3rd or 4th, and a decent top 10 organisation prospect.

MattScott 10-27-2003 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark Attack
SJ would want a forward not a defender plus a pick or prospect. Sopel does not fit that category and with Umberger unsigned, no thanks. SJ can get more at the trade deadline.

CHomp, CHomp

The sharks would be insane not to take Sopel and Umberger for Ricci and change... A UFA to be with limited offensive talent for a good young d man who can play the power play, and a 1st round prospect, potential #2 center... You figure they could get more at the trade deadline? Don't kid yourself... Although there's no way Burke would pay that much.

NFITO 10-28-2003 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
He would something between the Barnes and Kono deal. A pick in a 2nd/3rd or 4th, and a decent top 10 organisation prospect.

Is Konowalchuk a UFA after this season? Barnes wasn't.... Ricci is...

I think that is makes a lot of difference in a player's value.

I'd say that Smolinksi is a solid comparison - given his status and his game.

Shark Attack 10-28-2003 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
Is Konowalchuk a UFA after this season? Barnes wasn't.... Ricci is...

I think that is makes a lot of difference in a player's value.

I'd say that Smolinksi is a solid comparison - given his status and his game.

I hear what you are saying but there are a couple of differences. First Smolinski is/was not known for being a team leader. Which is what Ricci currently is. Second SJ's attendence is off by 15-20% with their AHL style lineup, they cannot afford to deal Ricci for a prospect and picks if they do they will get more red ink than than they are losing now. If nothing else Ricci stays to bring in the fans, (or to try to keep what they have.)

Chomp, Chomp


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