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-   -   Don't you wish Mr. Snider (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=231111)

facts 03-14-2006 08:35 AM

Don't you wish Mr. Snider
 
would wake up this morning and do what the devils did a few years ago. I know it was Lou who fired the coach and repalced him but I think Clarkie and Hitch should be gone.
Bring in Lombardi as the new GM and let Stevens take over this ship. Lets be honest, against the Pens Hitch was just standing behind the bench not saying anything, it wasn't the silent treatment- it is the beginning of a mutiny- he recognizes the players have tuned him out, he is looking for any spark. The guys who are oin the ice do as they please. There is no consistancy with the coaching!
Example 10 seconds remaining against the Sabres, instead of putting out your "safe" line he puts out the Forsberg line. Granted Gagne is responsible he is the only one whom was defending. Forsberg doesn't trap and ultimately let his man go at centre ice resulting in the 4.7 breakdown. Not only is this a disrespect to the coach but to your teammates also. And this isn't even a hack on Forsberg.
Our powerplay is awful, slow and still lacking a right hand shot. Our penalty kill is passive and there is never any authority on a clear, we never clear on the first attempt, there is always a play at the line.
Our forecheck is no longer a threat because it is non existant and finally the most embarrassing thing is when the opposition clearly indicates prior during and after the game that their motive is to get the puck behingd our defense and work from there as the are slow. Fix it, it is obvious and the constant game plan against. We need to clear the puck from our zone immediately and win the battles from the neutral zone in, allowing for movement into the oppsing zone as a unit, shorter passes, resulting in fewer turnovers and double team situations as we approach the line.
As for the powerplay, I am stumped, because Forsberg is the director, there is no need for a man in front of the net, the cross ice pass is blocked less if their is no traffic- our second unit requires a differnt look and benefits from crashing the net.
Example Unit 1 Forsberg Gagne Nedved Unit 2 Knuble Umberger Richards. This team needs to simplify we are making it far too easy for the oppostion and way too hard for ourselves. We need to play like the devils and Flyers of old, defense first and offense when the opportunity presents. If we improve our defense we gain confidence and trust. This team is called the Flyers not the Forsbergs so lets play as a team not let one guy play like a team.

Dr Love 03-14-2006 08:46 AM

Ed Snider got rid of his own son and replaced him with Clarke. He'll never fire Clarke.

GKJ 03-14-2006 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Love
Ed Snider got rid of his own son and replaced him with Clarke. He'll never fire Clarke.


This thread is over

BringBackStevens 03-14-2006 10:07 AM

no i dont. i wish people would chill with trying to take clarke's head.

priceperlb* 03-14-2006 10:12 AM

Apparently it's not over.

There is a need for someone in front of the net. He creates traffic and can occupy one or sometimes both defensemen. That creates open lanes for passing and reduces the amount of pressure they can put on the puck carrier.

Firing the coach can work if there's any kind of leadership in the team. Right now there isn't. There are only about 5 guys leftover from the previous "mutiny" so maybe it has a different effect than just the loony's running the asylum, but certainly no guarantee.

The only guy of those 5 I wish could but don't look to help lead is Gagne. He doesn't put the effort out for complete shifts now and didn't before (during the "mutiny" season). I don't want to get rid of him because he's still a talented forward, but he's no leader. The good news is he knows that. Therien is out and is not a leader even when he puts forth the effort. Desjardins is Dejardins. He's the same no matter what, but again no leader. Primeau's out so that leaves Kapanen. I thought he was a leader, but maybe with Hatcher getting the C he loses some of the respect or he just isn't the leader either. Hard to say.

The problems are mental. Some of that is the injuries, some may be the personnel. The free agent acquisitions weren't very good. Savage should be better than he is, but his lack of scoring probably isn't on anyone's mind. Hatcher and Rathje were brought in to be big time contributors and they are not. They may be better than some, but they have very little impact. For their reputations, and maybe even paycheck size, I think that is on the minds of other players and has a negative effect.

GoneFullHextall 03-14-2006 10:29 AM

I guess people will never understand that Gagne did not want the C out of respect for Primeau earlier in the season.
Who cares If he didnt want to be captian. I never thought he was Captian material anyway. But I still want the guy on my team.
Its time for the players to stop saying the same old lines "we have to get better", "we need to work harder" blah,blah,blah. shut the hell up allready.
The injury excuse is getting old and I am getting tired of hearing it, its time for the leaders of this team to step up and play the type of hockey we expect to see. The Flyers have far too much talent on the ice right now to let a 1 goal lead slip away in the 3rd against Buffalo and to get SHUTOUT by the Penguins and only generate 22 SOG against one of the worst defensive teams in the league.
Pathetic.

Jester 03-14-2006 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
I guess people will never understand that Gagne did not want the C out of respect for Primeau earlier in the season.
Who cares If he didnt want to be captian. I never thought he was Captian material anyway. But I still want the guy on my team.
Its time for the players to stop saying the same old lines "we have to get better", "we need to work harder" blah,blah,blah. shut the hell up allready.
The injury excuse is getting old and I am getting tired of hearing it, its time for the leaders of this team to step up and play the type of hockey we expect to see. The Flyers have far too much talent on the ice right now to let a 1 goal lead slip away in the 3rd against Buffalo and to get SHUTOUT by the Penguins and only generate 22 SOG against one of the worst defensive teams in the league.
Pathetic.

as much as the defensive zone lapses troubles me... the fact that we are creating very little consistent offense in SOG and are getting dominated in the third periods of games is much more troubling.

Cmoneyflyguy 03-14-2006 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by facts
would wake up this morning and do what the devils did a few years ago. I know it was Lou who fired the coach and repalced him but I think Clarkie and Hitch should be gone.
Bring in Lombardi as the new GM and let Stevens take over this ship. Lets be honest, against the Pens Hitch was just standing behind the bench not saying anything, it wasn't the silent treatment- it is the beginning of a mutiny- he recognizes the players have tuned him out, he is looking for any spark. The guys who are oin the ice do as they please. There is no consistancy with the coaching!
Example 10 seconds remaining against the Sabres, instead of putting out your "safe" line he puts out the Forsberg line. Granted Gagne is responsible he is the only one whom was defending. Forsberg doesn't trap and ultimately let his man go at centre ice resulting in the 4.7 breakdown. Not only is this a disrespect to the coach but to your teammates also. And this isn't even a hack on Forsberg.
Our powerplay is awful, slow and still lacking a right hand shot. Our penalty kill is passive and there is never any authority on a clear, we never clear on the first attempt, there is always a play at the line.
Our forecheck is no longer a threat because it is non existant and finally the most embarrassing thing is when the opposition clearly indicates prior during and after the game that their motive is to get the puck behingd our defense and work from there as the are slow. Fix it, it is obvious and the constant game plan against. We need to clear the puck from our zone immediately and win the battles from the neutral zone in, allowing for movement into the oppsing zone as a unit, shorter passes, resulting in fewer turnovers and double team situations as we approach the line.
As for the powerplay, I am stumped, because Forsberg is the director, there is no need for a man in front of the net, the cross ice pass is blocked less if their is no traffic- our second unit requires a differnt look and benefits from crashing the net.
Example Unit 1 Forsberg Gagne Nedved Unit 2 Knuble Umberger Richards. This team needs to simplify we are making it far too easy for the oppostion and way too hard for ourselves. We need to play like the devils and Flyers of old, defense first and offense when the opportunity presents. If we improve our defense we gain confidence and trust. This team is called the Flyers not the Forsbergs so lets play as a team not let one guy play like a team.

Wow, you should forward your coaching ideas to Mr. Snider. Maybe he'll hire you. Gosh, you make it seem simple. Are you sure you haven't coached in the NHL? :rolleyes:

SheroWorship 03-14-2006 12:00 PM

Having grown up in watching Sam Pollock manipulate trades and draft picks like an adult stealing from children I can say that there are better GM's than Clarke.

But not many.

However compared to what's available there is no one to replace him with that is any better. And by better I mean consistent over... say 5 years... at trades and acquiring draft picks and who is available. Consider that the Flyers have consistently finished near the top year after year.

I am equally frustrated that we cannot grab the Cup but I don't see the issue as a GM problem. I think Hitchcock is a fine coach but it may be time to replace him. I do not put the lack of a championship squarely on his shoulders. Injuries plague this team like no other in the league... and depth will only take you so far before things fall apart. There's also the new issue that the league rule changes have left his coaching a little out dated. I don't think he has adjusted the offense enough.

I don't know much about who leads our Phantoms team and won the Championship. Is he ready?

There was also a coach in Buffalo - I believe he was native american - that was very successful and is completely of the radar... and I'm not certain why.

What we need is someone like Lemaire or Robinson. These two know how to play the game and have had consistent success at coaching.

Jester 03-14-2006 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheroWorship
Having grown up in watching Sam Pollock manipulate trades and draft picks like an adult stealing from children I can say that there are better GM's than Clarke.

But not many.

However compared to what's available there is no one to replace him with that is any better. And by better I mean consistent over... say 5 years... at trades and acquiring draft picks and who is available. Consider that the Flyers have consistently finished near the top year after year.

I am equally frustrated that we cannot grab the Cup but I don't see the issue as a GM problem. I think Hitchcock is a fine coach but it may be time to replace him. I do not put the lack of a championship squarely on his shoulders. Injuries plague this team like no other in the league... and depth will only take you so far before things fall apart. There's also the new issue that the league rule changes have left his coaching a little out dated. I don't think he has adjusted the offense enough.

I don't know much about who leads our Phantoms team and won the Championship. Is he ready?

There was also a coach in Buffalo - I believe he was native american - that was very successful and is completely of the radar... and I'm not certain why.

What we need is someone like Lemaire or Robinson. These two know how to play the game and have had consistent success at coaching.

doesn't compute with how he had the team playing in November and December. he adjusted just fine. people can say they're tired of hearing it, but the injuries clearly de-railed this team in january and it has been a struggle to recover to the playing-form we displayed earlier in the year.

are we going to recover? i don't know... however, i don't think there is anything that suggests Hitch hasn't grasped the new NHL. the players aren't playing well as a team at the moment, but earlier in this year they were...

SheroWorship 03-14-2006 12:26 PM

Yeah... I see the point of the injuries. He is a good coach - no quarrel. There's something missing from his game. I can't pin it down so this may not be too clear:

It's something like - when you have free wheelers that can score then let them. And you will not develop scorers if you keep nagging them to play defense. (Was his name Comrie? That kid that everyone seemed to want here. Came here and did zip.) Pair your offensive talent with at least one defensive beast who can back check and dig for the puck ( and who will net 15 goals/season ) and let your snipers shoot.

I don't know how to phrase it better.

Hitchcock knows how to win defensively and I'm starting to believe that the winning streak was more talent related than coaching based... this year.

EDIT: But it's not all him. I am used to the Flyers getting the puck in a corner battle. I don't see them aggressively winning the corner battles and in this faster game... they end up on the defensive too often.

Dig Out Your Soul 03-14-2006 03:52 PM

Regardless of how good a coach Hitchcock is, I want Brent Sutter coaching this team VERY soon.

Jester 03-14-2006 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippyime
Regardless of how good a coach Hitchcock is, I want Brent Sutter coaching this team VERY soon.

Isles coach next year...

Pantokrator 03-14-2006 04:38 PM

i agree that Hitchcock is a great coach, but for whatever reason, he isn't making this team any better. I am not in the locker room, but perhaps his spiel has worn thin. I would prefer a coach like Ted Nolan who has the ability to motivate. Hitchcock may be great on x's and o's, but I don't picture him giving any "Win one for the Gipper" speeches. I know, I know, a coaches job shouldn't be to motivate, the players should motivate themselves, but they don't. I want a coach that the players want to play hard for.

But, the Flyers will never hire Nolan because of the rift he caused with Old-school Muckler.

John Flyers Fan 03-14-2006 04:55 PM

Clarke + Hitchcock >>>>>>>>>> Lombardi + Stevens

Dig Out Your Soul 03-14-2006 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
Isles coach next year...

Possibly. He's never even said if he wants to make the switch to the NHL though, has he? I just think he's exactly what we need. Someone to instill a work ethic.

easton122 03-14-2006 05:00 PM

We'll keep Lombardi around until we need to completelty rebuild. Then he can take over GM duties.

MiamiScreamingEagles 03-14-2006 05:50 PM

How many years does Hitchcock have left on his contract?

SheroWorship 03-14-2006 08:17 PM

FWIW I don't see them firing Hitchcock any earlier than the middle of next year - and that would have to be a total meltdown (.500 hockey team with few injuries)

I for one would not mind him sticking but only if the team improves say... two out of every three years. I don't believe they have played better than they did in the previous season so unless they get to the conference finals (Miracle - but here's hoping) I think this is his 'down' year.

I want two wingers (15 goal scorers) that just crush the ****** out of any opponent in the corners and know two things:

1. How to come out of the corner with the puck
2. Who to pass it too = no blind panic passes.

John Flyers Fan 03-14-2006 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easton122
We'll keep Lombardi around until we need to completelty rebuild. Then he can take over GM duties.

#1. We shouldn't have to completely rebuild for a long long time.

#2. Lombardi isn't going to to a better job of drafting than Clarke has done recently.

Pantokrator 03-14-2006 09:09 PM

I don't put blame here on Clarke. Most of his moves I think are good to great. his drafting has been very good, and most of his aquisitions, at the time he made them, I thought made sense. Rathje hasn't worked out as hoped, but this summer I thought it was a good signing. Overall, I think he is one of the better GM's.

Jester 03-14-2006 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantokrator
I don't put blame here on Clarke. Most of his moves I think are good to great. his drafting has been very good, and most of his aquisitions, at the time he made them, I thought made sense. Rathje hasn't worked out as hoped, but this summer I thought it was a good signing. Overall, I think he is one of the better GM's.

Rathje was working out GREAT until he got all dinged... don't forget how solid he was back there prior to his hip falling apart on him. Pitkanen and Rathje were EASILY our best defensive pairing and that wasn't all Pitkanen.

November and December we were rocking the NHL... our special teams were coming around... things were looking very very good. injuries caught up with this team... hopefully they pull out of this spiral, and soon.

Banger 03-15-2006 10:12 AM

Does anyone think that the Flyers problems could be due to their injuries? (sarcasm)

People wanting Clarke/Hitch fired are making a huge mistake IMO. What the Flyers need to do is get healthy. Period. They haven't been healthy the entire year and until they are I don't see how we can fairly evaluate how good/bad this team really is.

Jester 03-15-2006 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banger
Does anyone think that the Flyers problems could be due to their injuries? (sarcasm)

People wanting Clarke/Hitch fired are making a huge mistake IMO. What the Flyers need to do is get healthy. Period. They haven't been healthy the entire year and until they are I don't see how we can fairly evaluate how good/bad this team really is.

November/December... and prolly a bit better w/ Desjardins back. don't know if we're going to get back to that, but that's how good we can be.

priceperlb* 03-15-2006 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester
Rathje was working out GREAT until he got all dinged... don't forget how solid he was back there prior to his hip falling apart on him. Pitkanen and Rathje were EASILY our best defensive pairing and that wasn't all Pitkanen.

November and December we were rocking the NHL... our special teams were coming around... things were looking very very good. injuries caught up with this team... hopefully they pull out of this spiral, and soon.

If we're not going to be realistic what's the point of talking about it?

Rathje has been a detriment from game one. He's slow. He's unaggressive. His stick work has sucked. He can't clear the zone. He makes bad passes. His awareness is atrocious. What has he done that's great?

Rocking the NHL? In those 2 months they played about 28 games. 20 of those games were one goal games. Not all were wins either. Three of them were 2 goal games which probably points to empty netters. All losses. They did get more wins than losses and didn't look all that good doing it. Some losses were to crap teams. Rocking the NHL? Come on. I'm out.


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