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-   -   Comrie Pride (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=23148)

Dale 10-26-2003 11:39 PM

Comrie Pride not Greed
 
The why Comrie isn't signed discussion has gone back and forth between money and hurt feelings because of playoff comments by Lowe.

It has to be a combination thing but perhaps the most important factor is Mike Comrie's pride. He already has money, he loves to play hockey but Lowe low-balled him with a minimal offer stating a poor playoff performance.

Sure Mike made a ton on bonus', that Lowe readily gave him, by the way and made them easy to get on top of it all, but Comrie was still a major Oiler point getter and #1center. Lowe offered him the minimum amount that he possibly could and has shown no sign of flexibility.

THE POINT IS that the year before, BREWER did exactly the same thing, in the same situation as Comrie (Brewer too had had an up and down year ), was ready to hold out(in fact signed at the last minute before training camp began) and Lowe gave him a hefty two year contract averaging out to 2 million a year. Brewer earned that salary no more than Comrie earned his bonus' last year. York, a little older than Comrie with fewer points last two years, gets 2 million a year from Lowe with little fight. Dvorak and Isbister,traded for by Lowe and coming with a lot of baggage, make 2 million and 1.9 million. Are any of these guys worth that much more to the team than Comrie?

Do you not think that hockey players compare their value and salary especially with others on the team doing similar jobs at similar points in their careers?

I think Comrie looked at these players and their contracts, then at what Lowe offered him and said ******* him. Mike like most elite athletes has an ego. He was hurt and especially EMBARRASSED by Lowe's offer, thinks he's being treated with a LACK OF RESPECT or FAIRNESS and WON'T sign with Lowe, not necessarily the Oilers, PERIOD.

Many said the Brewer contract was another Lowe mistake and I think we're seeing some partial results of it here and may see more backlash to it in the future as well.

Lowe has gone from wishy washy, give them what they want to keep them at all cost to "I'm the tough young forward-looking executive of a small market team who is going to show the league how to do it the right way." Unfortunately he's inconsistant in his toughness (stubborness?) as the Cory Cross, three year, very generous deal for a 32 year old journeyman dman,is a fine example of.

Lowe has brought much of this on the team himself.

G-Double 10-27-2003 12:36 AM

The York comparison in my opinion is a little off, York brings leadership, defensive responsibility and great PK work to the team, he also produced in NY when he had crap wingers (before he was put on the "fly" line.) Comrie stepped into a situation that was tailor made for him to hit those bonuses. He played half a season on the 2nd line, with some good talent, and then he went to the first line with all the talent the team had to offer. Also, those bonuses were so easy to reach because he bent lowe over the table.

Lowe had a choice and he made the one that would get Comrie into the NHL as an Oiler, and now Comrie is making a choice, comparable to the one he made 3 years ago, trying to force lowe's hand. Only problem is, kevin lowe can sit on this situation till comrie is 31 or if comrie is lucky and the CBA changes, until he is 28 or whatever the age changes to.

Something i just thought of....what if the comrie camp is hoping that the new UFA system makes it a much younger age and he won;t have to wait too long to get those kind of dollars and choose where he wants to play...

kraigus 10-27-2003 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Double
Something i just thought of....what if the comrie camp is hoping that the new UFA system makes it a much younger age and he won;t have to wait too long to get those kind of dollars and choose where he wants to play...

Even if the age was dropped to 28, Comrie's still only barely 23 - that's 5 years hence. Assuming "the war of 2004" lasts a year, he'd be waiting another 3 years, and if Lowe decides he'd rather let MC rot, I don't think any team would risk big $ on him afterwards. Daigle, Yashin, and Peca all had a bit of a hard time finding their way after sitting out for a long time, and while MC's better than Daigle, I'd trade him straight up for Yash or Peca in a heartbeat.

So if that's what the Winter/Comrie camp are thinking, I hope they get their heads examined soon. :)

ZIM 10-27-2003 04:53 AM

Kevin Lowe made the he's mine until 31 comment seemingly forgetting about salary arbitration. A player aged 25 or older, or who has at least five years of NHL experience, qualifies for salary arbitration when his contract expires. Teams are not obliged to accept salary arbitration decisions. But if a team walks away from a salary arbitration award, the player may elect to become a Free Agent within seven days.

Does anyone here believe that an arbitrator would give Comrie $1.13M, the Oilers qualifying offer? Guess what Kevin. You might control his destiny until he's 31 but someone other than you may control how much you pay him.

*

dawgbone 10-27-2003 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Double
The York comparison in my opinion is a little off, York brings leadership, defensive responsibility and great PK work to the team, he also produced in NY when he had crap wingers (before he was put on the "fly" line.) Comrie stepped into a situation that was tailor made for him to hit those bonuses. He played half a season on the 2nd line, with some good talent, and then he went to the first line with all the talent the team had to offer. Also, those bonuses were so easy to reach because he bent lowe over the table.

Lowe had a choice and he made the one that would get Comrie into the NHL as an Oiler, and now Comrie is making a choice, comparable to the one he made 3 years ago, trying to force lowe's hand. Only problem is, kevin lowe can sit on this situation till comrie is 31 or if comrie is lucky and the CBA changes, until he is 28 or whatever the age changes to.

Something i just thought of....what if the comrie camp is hoping that the new UFA system makes it a much younger age and he won;t have to wait too long to get those kind of dollars and choose where he wants to play...

If those bonuses were so easy, how come more younger players don't put up those numbers consistantly.

The bonuses were attainable, but by no means easy.

Malmo_Mike 10-27-2003 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omar
Kevin Lowe made the he's mine until 31 comment seemingly forgetting about salary arbitration. A player aged 25 or older, or who has at least five years of NHL experience, qualifies for salary arbitration when his contract expires. Teams are not obliged to accept salary arbitration decisions. But if a team walks away from a salary arbitration award, the player may elect to become a Free Agent within seven days.

Does anyone here believe that an arbitrator would give Comrie $1.13M, the Oilers qualifying offer? Guess what Kevin. You might control his destiny until he's 31 but someone other than you may control how much you pay him.

*

The thing is Comrie doesn't have 5 years of NHL experience and unless he signs he isn't going to get them.

Malmo_Mike 10-27-2003 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
If those bonuses were so easy, how come more younger players don't put up those numbers consistantly.

The bonuses were attainable, but by no means easy.

I'd say they were very attainable. One of them was for top six in icetime on the team and when you're playing on the top line that's pretty much a given.

ZIM 10-27-2003 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malmo_Mike
The thing is Comrie doesn't have 5 years of NHL experience and unless he signs he isn't going to get them.

You don't need 5 years. All you need is to be 25 or older.

Allan 10-27-2003 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omar
You don't need 5 years. All you need is to be 25 or older.

From http://letsgopens.com :

Article 12
Salary Arbitration


12.1. Eligibility.

(a) A player is eligible to elect salary arbitration if the
player meets the qualifications set forth in the following chart
and in Section 12.1(b) below:


First Contract Signing Age Minimum Level of
Professional Experience
Required to be
Eligible for Salary
Arbitration

18-20 5 years professional experience
21 4 years professional experience
22-23 3 years professional experience
24 2 years professional experience
25 and older 1 year professional experience


A player aged 18 or 19 earns a year of "professional
experience" by playing ten or more NHL games (regular season
and/or playoffs) in a given season. A player aged 20 or above
(or who turns 20 between September 16 and December 31 of the year
in which he signs his first Player Contract) earns a year of
professional experience by playing ten or more professional games
under NHL contract in a given season.


Mike Comrie signed his first professional contract at 20, so indeed he does require 5 years experience in order to file for salary arbitration. He has no way to get these years of experience without signing another contract. Before making repeated, argumentative statements, you should look up the rules. If you are stating CBA facts, it's easy to provide a source - the whole thing is online.

dawgbone 10-27-2003 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omar
Kevin Lowe made the he's mine until 31 comment seemingly forgetting about salary arbitration. A player aged 25 or older, or who has at least five years of NHL experience, qualifies for salary arbitration when his contract expires. Teams are not obliged to accept salary arbitration decisions. But if a team walks away from a salary arbitration award, the player may elect to become a Free Agent within seven days.

Does anyone here believe that an arbitrator would give Comrie $1.13M, the Oilers qualifying offer? Guess what Kevin. You might control his destiny until he's 31 but someone other than you may control how much you pay him.

*

Even if he was eligible for arbitration at 25 (which he isn't, that was impressive research whoever looked it up), what exactly could an arbitrator award if a guy hasn't played in 2 years?

ZIM 10-27-2003 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
Even if he was eligible for arbitration at 25 (which he isn't, that was impressive research whoever looked it up), what exactly could an arbitrator award if a guy hasn't played in 2 years?

Here is my source

I looked up the entire CBA on the Buffalo Sabres web site and my original source appears to be incorrect. I will modify my views accordingly.

dawgbone 10-27-2003 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omar

That had nothing to do with arbitration...

ZIM 10-27-2003 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgbone
That had nothing to do with arbitration...

That's odd beacuse when I look at the link it incldes the following
Group V NHL Free Agent
If a player has completed at least 10 seasons of professional hockey (in the NHL or minor leagues) and earned less than the NHL average salary during the previous season, he has the right to become Unrestricted Free Agent. Eligible players have until July 15 to elect Group V status. A player can be a Group V Free Agent only once in his career.

The average NHL salary for the 2002-03 season was $1,790,209.

Group VI NHL Free Agent
A player aged 25 or older, who has completed at least three seasons of professional hockey (in the NHL or minor leagues), and (a) in the case of a player other than a goaltender has played fewer than 80 NHL games (regular-season and playoff), or (b) in the case of a goaltender has played fewer than 28 NHL games (regular-season and playoff), is an Unrestricted Free Agent.

Salary Arbitration
A player aged 25 or older, or who has at least five years of NHL experience, qualifies for salary arbitration when his contract expires. Teams are not obliged to accept salary arbitration decisions. But if a team walks away from a salary arbitration award, the player may elect to become a Free Agent within seven days.

*

thome_26 10-27-2003 07:17 AM

Comrie and Winter won't want ANY part of arbitration. That takes away any of their clout, and for sure he wouldn't get more then 2 million with zero bonuses.

Comrie and Winter are stupid if they think they will tie Lowes hands and put a gun to his head - if they back him into a corner, he'll probably just sit with Comrie and allow him to rot.

If it becomes clear that nothing will happen with Comrie, Lowe can easily sign one of the FA's out there or make a trade because he has more then enough organizational depth to do so.

dawgbone 10-27-2003 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omar
That's odd beacuse when I look at the link it incldes the following
Group V NHL Free Agent
If a player has completed at least 10 seasons of professional hockey (in the NHL or minor leagues) and earned less than the NHL average salary during the previous season, he has the right to become Unrestricted Free Agent. Eligible players have until July 15 to elect Group V status. A player can be a Group V Free Agent only once in his career.

The average NHL salary for the 2002-03 season was $1,790,209.

Group VI NHL Free Agent
A player aged 25 or older, who has completed at least three seasons of professional hockey (in the NHL or minor leagues), and (a) in the case of a player other than a goaltender has played fewer than 80 NHL games (regular-season and playoff), or (b) in the case of a goaltender has played fewer than 28 NHL games (regular-season and playoff), is an Unrestricted Free Agent.

Salary Arbitration
A player aged 25 or older, or who has at least five years of NHL experience, qualifies for salary arbitration when his contract expires. Teams are not obliged to accept salary arbitration decisions. But if a team walks away from a salary arbitration award, the player may elect to become a Free Agent within seven days.

*

Alrighty... I read the first few paragraphs and they just talked about the free agency groups, and I stopped reading, my bad.

And yeah, the letsgopens site has the CBA word for word, and clarifies it.

Dale 10-27-2003 12:15 PM

I don't see Lowe having a position of any particular strength, especially the way the teams been playing. If we were having problems in just one area maybe hanging on to Comrie could be an option but we have problems in every area. A decent player would definately help somewhere when the alternative is just being able to say "I guess we taught Comrie a lesson."

The Oilers don't have enough assets to just let one of the "rot". Personalities have gotten in the way of logic in this dispute and a trade has to occur for either side to at least come out even.

Right now both sides are losing.

G-Double 10-27-2003 12:22 PM

dawgbone, more young guys don't get it because they don;t play w/ the first line talent that MC played with the minute he stepped onto EDM ice. The guys that do get it, easily hit their bonuses as well, heatley, Nash, Kovalchuk, etc.


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