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-   -   Oiler Scouts Attend Winterhawks (Coburn) Game (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=23225)

jofa 10-27-2003 08:32 AM

Oiler Scouts Attend Winterhawks (Coburn) Game
 
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam031027/nhl_edm2-sun.html

Kevin Prendergast, the Oilers chief scout and vice-president of hockey operations, is in the U.S. on a scouting trip and he spent Saturday night watching the Portland Winterhawks beat the Prince Albert Raiders 2-0 in Oregon.

It just so happens that towering defenceman Braydon Coburn, selected eighth overall by the Thrashers in the 2003 Entry Draft, plays for Portland.

While Lowe is keeping his cards close to the vest as he attempts to trade Comrie, Atlanta remains near the top of the list of likely destinations. Coburn could prove to be a piece of that puzzle if a multi-player deal is in the works.

The wrench jamming things up is Lowe wants to deal from a position of strength, but with the Oilers having lost three straight games and Atlanta off to a 4-1-2-1 start without Dany Heatley, GM Don Waddell holds all the cards.

Outside of red-hot Ilya Kovalchuk, centre Marc Savard has been the best of the Thrashers. While Savard would certainly fit the bill at pivot here, Waddell has the hammer.



Having Prendergast at a Winterhawks game definitely gives some validity to the Coburn rumor, and he could be a great defensive prospect to add to the system, but is anyone excited about the possibility of Savard coming to Edmonton? Considering all the problems he had in Calgary, would it surprise anyone here if he didn't like playing for the Oilers and was underperforming? Picking up Stefan in some sort of multi-player trade would be a far better gamble, as the change of scenery may do the former first overall pick some good.

bucksoil 10-27-2003 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jofa
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam031027/nhl_edm2-sun.html

Kevin Prendergast, the Oilers chief scout and vice-president of hockey operations, is in the U.S. on a scouting trip and he spent Saturday night watching the Portland Winterhawks beat the Prince Albert Raiders 2-0 in Oregon.

It just so happens that towering defenceman Braydon Coburn, selected eighth overall by the Thrashers in the 2003 Entry Draft, plays for Portland.

While Lowe is keeping his cards close to the vest as he attempts to trade Comrie, Atlanta remains near the top of the list of likely destinations. Coburn could prove to be a piece of that puzzle if a multi-player deal is in the works.

The wrench jamming things up is Lowe wants to deal from a position of strength, but with the Oilers having lost three straight games and Atlanta off to a 4-1-2-1 start without Dany Heatley, GM Don Waddell holds all the cards.

Outside of red-hot Ilya Kovalchuk, centre Marc Savard has been the best of the Thrashers. While Savard would certainly fit the bill at pivot here, Waddell has the hammer.



Having Prendergast at a Winterhawks game definitely gives some validity to the Coburn rumor, and he could be a great defensive prospect to add to the system, but is anyone excited about the possibility of Savard coming to Edmonton? Considering all the problems he had in Calgary, would it surprise anyone here if he didn't like playing for the Oilers and was underperforming? Picking up Stefan in some sort of multi-player trade would be a far better gamble, as the change of scenery may do the former first overall pick some good.

Wow... Seems really unlikely, but if they WERE at the game....

If it were just any other scout, I wouldn't be thinking anything of it... I mean that is what scouts do... they watch junior games. But Prendergast is a different fish altogether... something could be in the works.

As for any deal involving Coburn... interesting. It could definitely work well for EDM... however it could backfire too.

Ditto for the rumours like Weiss. Exactly the type of upside we are looking for (especially if a decent young D is also involved). I'd just want to be sure that my scouts were all-aboard w.r.t. Weiss. A bust could really foul things up for us for a while.

dunwoody_joe 10-27-2003 09:28 AM

Any deal that the Thrashers make with edmonton will not include Savard.

He's the #1 centerman and a real team guy right now. No way he's part of the deal.

I think Comrie fits nicely into the #2 centerman slot in Atlanta and DW might even be willing to part with Coburn in some deal. I doubt that Stefan is part of that--but you could have him (if it were up to me).

If such a deal worked out then the Thrashers would have Savard, Comrie and Stefan down the middle--which should be good enough.

I would really hate to see Coburn moved at all. Atlanta doesn't really have a potential #1 dman in the system except him. But I have to believe that Prendergast in Portland looks like a smoking gun.

Maybe Comrie for Coburn straight up?

bucksoil 10-27-2003 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe
Any deal that the Thrashers make with edmonton will not include Savard.

He's the #1 centerman and a real team guy right now. No way he's part of the deal.

I think Comrie fits nicely into the #2 centerman slot in Atlanta and DW might even be willing to part with Coburn in some deal. I doubt that Stefan is part of that--but you could have him (if it were up to me).

If such a deal worked out then the Thrashers would have Savard, Comrie and Stefan down the middle--which should be good enough.

I would really hate to see Coburn moved at all. Atlanta doesn't really have a potential #1 dman in the system except him. But I have to believe that Prendergast in Portland looks like a smoking gun.

Maybe Comrie for Coburn straight up?

Could we add Chimera and a pick for Stefan? We'll need something for this season at centre.

Flamin' Griz 10-27-2003 09:50 AM

I'm pretty sure that if a deal for Coburn was a possibilty that the Oilers would have little need to go see him play. I'm pretty sure they have a good book on him, just like the other 29 teams in the league do.

dawgbone 10-27-2003 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucksoil
Could we add Chimera and a pick for Stefan? We'll need something for this season at centre.

so how does Stefan solve that problem? :rolly:

jofa 10-27-2003 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamin' Griz
I'm pretty sure that if a deal for Coburn was a possibilty that the Oilers would have little need to go see him play. I'm pretty sure they have a good book on him, just like the other 29 teams in the league do.

Yeah, I'm sure they know a lot about him, but at the same time, I would think that the Oiler's chief scout has better things to do than watch Portland/Prince Albert games, unless there was a good reason for him to attend.

jofa 10-27-2003 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe
Maybe Comrie for Coburn straight up?

I think the only problem with this is that Comrie is a proven quantity capable of scoring big points at the NHL level. Coburn, regardless of his potential and what he has accomplished so far, is still unproven. Although he looks like he should be the real deal when he reaches the NHL, a lot of prospects have been huge in every stage of their career but are never able to translate that talent to the big league.

A similar trade this offseason was defensive prospect Ballard (11th overall pick in 2002) for Steve Reinprecht. Considering Comrie is younger and has had higher point totals than Reinprecht, I would imagine that Coburn for Comrie would also have to include an Atlanta pick or be a part of some sort of multi-player package to round out the deal.

Mr Sakich 10-27-2003 10:31 AM

I took a look at the portland and Prince Albert rosters to see if there were any other drafted players that pendergast may be looking at. Of the four players, only NYI 2003 2nd round pick Coliiton is remotely interesting. He is a 6'2" centre and is plus 4 but he has never scored at a point per game clip in the whl. To compare that to comrie, mike average 2.5 pts per game in his brief stint in the whl.

It has to be coburn. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence to support an immenent trade. First off, Lowe admitted to trying to move up to get one of the big 3 dman in this year's draft. Comrie is also a distraction to the team. Even if lowe trades him for picks/prospects, the distraction is gone.

The other thing is that atl is expected to challenge for a playoff spot this year and are not drawing big crowds in spite of their winning record. They are like nashville in that the bloom is off and it is time to put up some wins.

comrie + 2nd round pick for coburn and a 1st?

dunwoody_joe 10-27-2003 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jofa
I think the only problem with this is that Comrie is a proven quantity capable of scoring big points at the NHL level. Coburn, regardless of his potential and what he has accomplished so far, is still unproven. Although he looks like he should be the real deal when he reaches the NHL, a lot of prospects have been huge in every stage of their career but are never able to translate that talent to the big league.

A similar trade this offseason was defensive prospect Ballard (11th overall pick in 2002) for Steve Reinprecht. Considering Comrie is younger and has had higher point totals than Reinprecht, I would imagine that Coburn for Comrie would also have to include an Atlanta pick or be a part of some sort of multi-player package to round out the deal.

I agree with this. I was just hoping that a straight up deal could work. ;)

Maybe a package with either Dafoe or Hurme makes this work.

copperandblue 10-27-2003 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe
Maybe a package with either Dafoe or Hurme makes this work.

I was wondering the same thing although Dafoe would be a big mistake in my opinion.

A couple questions;

Does anyone know how close Coburn was to actually cracking Atlanta's roster?

I really have no idea how deep Atlanta is on the blueline but it seems unusual that Prendergast would be the guy to take a look at Coburn unless the Oil were under the impression that he is close to stepping into their line up and needed their big dog to try and assess where he is at.

Also, there are a few goalies out there that are rumoured to be on the block including Salo, does anyone know how long Burke, Kolzig and Dafoe's contracts are for?

I can't see the Oil trading for one of Atlanta's centers but the idea of getting Coburn and Hurme in one deal may not be so bad if Lowe has a taker for Salo in a Salo for a center trade to do at the same time (or maybe a three team blockbuster?).
Are there any teams out there that have a center to offer and in need of a veteran goalie that isn't commited beyond this season? Colorado maybe?

As poor as Salo's numbers have been, he has also proven that he can benefit from a change of scenery, maybe a Salo trade isn't so far fetched. He could be a good short term fit for a team that has a young starter and is looking to split the time with a proven vet. like I said they wouldn't be committed to keep him beyond this year and yet if he re-energized his play with the change in venue, there is the option to hang on to him for a couple more seasons.
At the very least Salo has shown that when the team infront of him plays a deciplined system, he is capable of putting up some good numbers. Too me it seems that he can't keep calm when the defence infront of him starts to struggle, a problem alot of teams in the league don't have therefore may be a good fit for him.

jofa 10-27-2003 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe
I agree with this. I was just hoping that a straight up deal could work. ;)

Maybe a package with either Dafoe or Hurme makes this work.

I don't think there'd be any chance Edmonton would be interested in Dafoe, but Hurme could be okay.

How about you just throw in a measley little prospect goaltender instead. Hmm, let's see, how about, Lehtonen... Is he any good? :D

G-Double 10-27-2003 11:02 AM

I am pretty sure Coburn llooked like crap in the ATL training camp, i saw him pla once last year for Portland and will watch him probably 2-3 x this year but in juniors he dominated, not so much offensively, but definitely on D..

I think he faired pretty poorly at the U-18's in the summer, or maybe it was the WJC summer camp, i can't really remember. Last year however at the midp--season WJC camp for canada reports were that he was awesome and probably should have made the team if theywere willing to take any 17 year olds.

All of that being said, i would love to see him in the Oilers stable of prospects, especially if we could pick up a pick in one of the 1st three rounds.

Hemsky4PM 10-27-2003 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jofa
I don't think there'd be any chance Edmonton would be interested in Dafoe, but Hurme could be okay.

How about you just throw in a measley little prospect goaltender instead. Hmm, let's see, how about, Lehtonen... Is he any good? :D

I would love to have Hurme. I think he's underrated. It would also give us a reason to trade Salo...if anyone would take him. Hurme for Comrie, no. But I would be happy to get a GOOD goalie as a piece of a deal.

dunwoody_joe 10-27-2003 11:04 AM

Dafoe's contract expires this year. 3.5 Million (US) for this year.

Herme might be the target since he's a solid #2 and much less costly. I think that Lehtonen might be ready for next year.

Coburn showed well in camp, nothing flashy just good fundamental defense. He is physically immature still and could use a couple more years to grow into his body and game.

For a mature organization (like the Oil), I would say he is two years from cracking the lineup. Then, he's a #2 defenseman for the next 15.

I would really hate to see him go.

The Thrashers are plenty deep with prospects on the blueline, just that Coburn is the only "blue-chip" guy. Too many #4-6 guys.

It seems, however, that a deal is in the works.

Coburn+Herme for Comrie+Rita? Maybe?

FacelessButcher 10-27-2003 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe

Coburn+Hurme for Comrie+Rita? Maybe?

Thats a pretty big overpay by the Oilers u snatched Hurme for a 4th pick when we could of picked him up for free(of course this was before Salo played like crap).
Comrie>Coburn
Rita>>>>Hurme

I think Comrie for both of them is more likely and we would probably throw in Horcoff for an upgrade to Nurminen if Wadell was interested.

thome_26 10-27-2003 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe
Dafoe's contract expires this year. 3.5 Million (US) for this year.

Herme might be the target since he's a solid #2 and much less costly. I think that Lehtonen might be ready for next year.

Coburn showed well in camp, nothing flashy just good fundamental defense. He is physically immature still and could use a couple more years to grow into his body and game.

For a mature organization (like the Oil), I would say he is two years from cracking the lineup. Then, he's a #2 defenseman for the next 15.

I would really hate to see him go.

The Thrashers are plenty deep with prospects on the blueline, just that Coburn is the only "blue-chip" guy. Too many #4-6 guys.

It seems, however, that a deal is in the works.

Coburn+Herme for Comrie+Rita? Maybe?

Ya, not a chance. Herme isn't exactly coveted by the Oilers - hell he was left alone when they could have picked him up for nothing. So that makes it Comrie and Rita for Coburn. Coburn isn't worth Comrie muchless including our best skating prospect. Include Stefan in that and perhaps you'd be on to something.

copperandblue 10-27-2003 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thome_26
Ya, not a chance. Herme isn't exactly coveted by the Oilers - hell he was left alone when they could have picked him up for nothing.

I don't agree with your reasoning. If Edmonton was to look at a deal involving Hurme, it would have to be done in conjunction with trading Salo.

When the Oilers had a chance to pick Hurme up for nothing, the idea of trading Salo was quite far from most peoples minds, in essence the Oilers would have had a 3.9 million starter, a 1.1 million dollar back up, would have lost Valliquette and would have had to expose Conklin in the waiver draft (most likely seeing him claimed). Claiming Hurme at that time didn't work on a number of levels.

However now, in many peoples eyes the confidence in Salo seems to be waivering. If Lowe can get a deal for Salo that satisfies one of his needs, then the idea of having Conklin back up Hurme makes alot more sense than Hurme backing up Salo, doesn't it.

The bigger questions would be wether Hurme is actually a guy that would be wanted and is Lowe really entertaining thoughts of trading Salo?

Could be interesting if you think about 5.5 mil of our budget being sent packing (assuming 1.5 alotted for Comrie), we could actually take back a player or players that come witha price tag.

thome_26 10-27-2003 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue
I don't agree with your reasoning. If Edmonton was to look at a deal involving Hurme, it would have to be done in conjunction with trading Salo.

When the Oilers had a chance to pick Hurme up for nothing, the idea of trading Salo was quite far from most peoples minds, in essence the Oilers would have had a 3.9 million starter, a 1.1 million dollar back up, would have lost Valliquette and would have had to expose Conklin in the waiver draft (most likely seeing him claimed). Claiming Hurme at that time didn't work on a number of levels.

However now, in many peoples eyes the confidence in Salo seems to be waivering. If Lowe can get a deal for Salo that satisfies one of his needs, then the idea of having Conklin back up Hurme makes alot more sense than Hurme backing up Salo, doesn't it.

The bigger questions would be wether Hurme is actually a guy that would be wanted and is Lowe really entertaining thoughts of trading Salo?

Could be interesting if you think about 5.5 mil of our budget being sent packing (assuming 1.5 alotted for Comrie), we could actually take back a player or players that come witha price tag.

Two things:
1. The Oilers had already lost Valiquette and losing him wasn't taken into consideration.
2. If you think the organization is giving up on Salo after 8 games this season then you're dreaming.

jofa 10-27-2003 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thome_26
If you think the organization is giving up on Salo after 8 games this season then you're dreaming.

Maybe its a dream, but Salo after 8 games has been a nightmare.

copperandblue 10-27-2003 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thome_26
Two things:
1. The Oilers had already lost Valiquette and losing him wasn't taken into consideration.

I mentioned that in reference to the total impact.
Meaning - no Valiquette, risk of no Conklin and 5 million tied up in goaltenders for the parent club.

Simply put, it didn't make sense. Geez they even sent Marrkanen packing because Conklin was 150k cheaper (or whatever it turned out to be)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thome_26
2. If you think the organization is giving up on Salo after 8 games this season then you're dreaming.

I am not sure they are either. Frankly I am one those people that have a bit of a soft spot for Salo and don't really want to see him moved, BUT let's be realistic - his play goes way beyond 8 games at this point.

At the beginning of the year, most people were writting off last year as an aberration and were looking for him to play like he did two years ago. He hasn't yet and he didn't last year so that becomes 1 season + 8 games. Not simply 8 games.

Again simply put, it's not out of the question.


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