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-   -   Theory behind Lundqvist (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=233170)

Eb0la11 03-20-2006 08:12 PM

Theory behind Lundqvist
 
Has anyone else noticed that he pretty much always seems to give up goals either in the 3rd period, where before he had a SO going into it, or else after the NYR gain a 3 goal lead. It seems like he has brain lapses during these times. Anyone else notice this? Hes got crazy good numbers for a rookie but I think that he is vulnerable at these times or something. I mean John Grahame has like 5 SO's and hes brutal, youd you lundqvist would have at least 5 the way hes played.

Levitate 03-20-2006 08:14 PM

usually not really his fault, I think it's more indicative of his teams play. Most of the goals he gives up in the third are a result of a defensive breakdown or bad bounce. He's had several shutouts ruined by a puck deflecting off his own defenseman, etc

I don't think he's really weak in the third period...I think a lot of times it's because the Rangers are winning in the third and sitting back a bit while the other team is pressing, and then they make mistakes

Eb0la11 03-20-2006 08:26 PM

yeah, I thought it was more than likely this, but either way the rangers could be winning more if they didnt have this happening.

NYR94 03-20-2006 08:45 PM

I don't really think it's his fault. The Rangers seem to be having defensive lapses lately that occur after they've built 2-3 goal leads, and since it usually takes them until the 3rd to get such leads, that's when the other teams get a few by Henke. Maybe if the Rangers played to a 0-0 tie for the first two periods and then saved all their scoring for the last half of the third this wouldn't happen LOL!

ATLANTARANGER* 03-20-2006 09:14 PM

A wise man by the name of Gerry Cheevers once said
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eb0la11
Has anyone else noticed that he pretty much always seems to give up goals either in the 3rd period, where before he had a SO going into it, or else after the NYR gain a 3 goal lead. It seems like he has brain lapses during these times. Anyone else notice this? Hes got crazy good numbers for a rookie but I think that he is vulnerable at these times or something. I mean John Grahame has like 5 SO's and hes brutal, youd you lundqvist would have at least 5 the way hes played.

F the GAA give me Ws! All that matters from here on out is one thing, at the end of the game did we get a W. If we did fine! End of story.

RangersFan 03-20-2006 09:19 PM

Lundqvist is still a rookie people forget. At 24 he has plenty of time to improve his mental game. The Playoffs should be great experience for him, lets just hope it's not a 1 year thing.

Lundqvist102 03-20-2006 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangersFan
Lundqvist is still a rookie people forget. At 24 he has plenty of time to improve his mental game. The Playoffs should be great experience for him, lets just hope it's not a 1 year thing.

I dont think its HIS problem exactly, sure there are times where he has his mental lapses but a vast majority of the time the team puts him in impossible situations and expect him to bail them out.

One can't forget that hes human!

Nemchinov13 03-20-2006 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundqvist102
I dont think its HIS problem exactly, sure there are times where he has his mental lapses but a vast majority of the time the team puts him in impossible situations and expect him to bail them out.

One can't forget that hes human!

WHAT???? He's HUMAN???? :eek:

Wow. I didn't know that. :shakehead

DutchShamrock 03-20-2006 11:07 PM

Dude, that Boyes goal was sick and in the perfect spot. That was more of a lapse by the defense by giving away the puck and not staying puckside with their coverages. You are spoiled by great goaltending if you think Henrik had any business saving that goal.

reaper 03-21-2006 12:25 AM

I don't know what's with the Rangers but they seem to really sit back in the third period when they have a lead. They stop skating and take stupid penalties. Lundqvist was 8 minutes from the SO against Toronto and then the Rangers let Toronto play 5-3 twice and ruins the SO. I didn't actually see the game, maybe the refs were ******** but still I don't think you get 4 penalties totally uncalled for. When you have a lead you shouldn't need to take a lot of penalties, just play the game through and stay disciplined. This might come back and bite them later in the playoffs if they keep doing it. Renney needs to tell them to play 60 minutes not 40. Let's not forget either that although the D is playing well there isn't any Nik Lidströms on the team and a lot of young players also.

eco's bones 03-21-2006 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
F the GAA give me Ws! All that matters from here on out is one thing, at the end of the game did we get a W. If we did fine! End of story.

Although it's important to Henrik Atlanta. He takes goals against personal like he should. And his numbers have been a good conversation starter. Eye-popping especially for a rookie. MVP like--even. Rookie of the year like--although there's Ovechkin but to me Henrik has passed by everyone else. But ultimately I do agree with your philosophy the wins mean more than anything else.

Edge 03-21-2006 03:37 AM

I've never really thought it was because of Lundqvist.

The team time and time again has come out in the third period and given up goals. They've also done it with Weekes in net.

If this team could come more awake in the third, Lundqvist EASILY would have at least 3 more shutouts and Weekes would have one as well.

Lundqvist is going to give up some goals, it's inevitable. But I'd say the bigger problem is the defense getting too comfortable in the third and the team as a whole letting up/possibly getting worn down.

It's still a bit of a concern for me.

SChan* 03-21-2006 05:29 AM

I agree. I am a big fan of lundqvist, but his stats would be even better if he didn't give up a couple of goals in the third period all the time.

ATLANTARANGER* 03-21-2006 05:47 AM

Very valid point, but
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eco's bones
Although it's important to Henrik Atlanta. He takes goals against personal like he should. And his numbers have been a good conversation starter. Eye-popping especially for a rookie. MVP like--even. Rookie of the year like--although there's Ovechkin but to me Henrik has passed by everyone else. But ultimately I do agree with your philosophy the wins mean more than anything else.

wins are what the object should be. I think he is the best rookie. Look at the pressure. 88pts is nothing to take for granted. How many games has he won by stoning the opposition? Without him I don't think we are anywhere near where we are.

TexMurphy 03-21-2006 05:57 AM

The thing with Henke is that he excells under preasure... he gets better the bigger the challange is... this is why he is playing even better in the NHL then he was in the SEL with basicly no trasition time needed...

He has proven many times that he plays better in games that are important... look at his SEL career he played better in the playoffs then in the regular season.. from great to fantastic... look at the olympics he started of the tournament with avg play (just like rest of team) and then stepped it up as the playoffs started... finally playing fantastic and making the winning save with seconds left on the clock...

Thats how Henke works... if its a 3 goal lead with half the third left he wount be playing as fantastic as if it was a 1 goal lead with same time left... The important thing is that its not like his performance drops its that his performance elevates with preasure... big difference there as he has a very high lowest level of play and that is whats important with a starting goalie... not how good can he be but how bad can he be... in Henkes case the low mark of his play is still pretty damn good...

The reason the shutouts have not been there for him is partially due to this and partially due to the entire team having the same mental attitude... relaxes a bit too much with a comfy lead but works arse off under preasure....

Tex

shoothepuck 03-21-2006 06:53 AM

Many of the first goals he "lets" in are fluke type, rebound, defections, or just great shot goals. They also do seem to come at a time when the team is relaxing, or at times when he hasn't had a shot on goal in 5-6 minutes. Last night, NY gave up 2 goals, (both less than 1 minute after they scored their goal), and that is indicative of a team that just relaxes after they score. Also many of the goals he lets up, are to guys who don't really score much if I'm remembering correctly, case in point, hal Gills goal last night was his first of the season. He's a rookie, and I'll take all the wins he gets. He deserves a few more shutouts this season, but poor team D, bad penalties, fluke goals, and a few mental lapses have prevented them this season.

DutchShamrock 03-21-2006 07:38 AM

Good point, but Gill isn't a rookie. Remember the begining of the season how cross ice passes were being deflected past Lundqvist by Kaspar every other night. Just crazy, fluke deflections off his skate and stick. A bunch of those ruined shutout bids. Hey, at least we can complain about lost shutouts instead of lost points.

NYR469 03-21-2006 07:58 AM

last night i think the goals boston scored after the rangers went up by 3 were more a result of the skaters in front of lundqvist letting up and thinking the game was over...

and against toronto the one goal was on a 5 on 3, the 2nd was technically a 5 on 4 as one of the guys just got out of the box but that was a virtual 5 on 3 and it was a result of a funny bounce of the backboards...

so it isn't like lundqvist is letting in shots from the redline

Lundqvist102 03-21-2006 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexMurphy
The thing with Henke is that he excells under preasure... he gets better the bigger the challange is... this is why he is playing even better in the NHL then he was in the SEL with basicly no trasition time needed...

He has proven many times that he plays better in games that are important... look at his SEL career he played better in the playoffs then in the regular season.. from great to fantastic... look at the olympics he started of the tournament with avg play (just like rest of team) and then stepped it up as the playoffs started... finally playing fantastic and making the winning save with seconds left on the clock...

Thats how Henke works... if its a 3 goal lead with half the third left he wount be playing as fantastic as if it was a 1 goal lead with same time left... The important thing is that its not like his performance drops its that his performance elevates with preasure... big difference there as he has a very high lowest level of play and that is whats important with a starting goalie... not how good can he be but how bad can he be... in Henkes case the low mark of his play is still pretty damn good...

The reason the shutouts have not been there for him is partially due to this and partially due to the entire team having the same mental attitude... relaxes a bit too much with a comfy lead but works arse off under preasure....

Tex

:clap: :clap:

KreiMeARiver* 03-21-2006 11:09 AM

The team lets up and lets him down in the 3rd. They sit back and in turn give up crap goals. I think people are getting a little nuts with this.

Bluenote13 03-21-2006 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hightide85
The team lets up and lets him down in the 3rd. They sit back and in turn give up crap goals. I think people are getting a little nuts with this.

It's not that they sitback, its that they don't up their game when the opponent does. In the 3rd when teams are desperate to get back into the game they're playing more open, opposing D-men are jumping up more frequently. The face of the game changes and they have to react with more urgency, then just trying to keep things simple, IMO.

Khelvan 03-21-2006 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugerya
Good point, but Gill isn't a rookie.

He's saying Lundqvist is a rookie, not Gill.

Nich 03-21-2006 01:57 PM

he's 24....not in his prime yet...give him 8 months ;)

Fletch 03-21-2006 02:36 PM

I agree with Edge...
 
this team seems to get leads, sit on them, and fall into mental lapses. The good news is, it seems as though they may give up a late goal or two, but seemed to get at least one of them back.

Bluenote13 03-21-2006 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch
this team seems to get leads, sit on them, and fall into mental lapses. The good news is, it seems as though they may give up a late goal or two, but seemed to get at least one of them back.

It's too easy just to say they sit back, more is going on than you think....

Bluenote13:

It's not that they sitback, its that they don't up their game when the opponent does. In the 3rd when teams are desperate to get back into the game they're playing more open, opposing D-men are jumping up more frequently. The face of the game changes and they have to react with more urgency, then just trying to keep things simple, IMO.


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