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-   -   How to end the honeymoon of a franchise (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=23488)

Surly Furious 10-28-2003 06:18 AM

How to end the honeymoon of a franchise
 
We're seeing it here - management had been doing everything right, we had one of the most exciting young players out there, a rosy future, last season's playoff run, etc.

Now it's last place, an ugly holdout by said greedy young star, inflexible management unwilling to shell out the bucks - just sports as usual. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

MN_Gopher 10-28-2003 07:00 AM

I think managment is not at fault here. GAB is asking for way too much money. 4.4 base, he is not worth it. Also 80 assists, 100+ points is not an attainable bonus either. They need to come together and work something out. 3.5 mil base then like 60a 40g 75 + games played are more attainable bonuses. Then the increase like in Dupuis contract. But in the end Dupuis wanted to play hockey and has loyality to the team that gave him his chance. GAB i guess just wants money. Maybe we are better off with out an attitude on the team.

ceber 10-28-2003 07:31 AM

It's too bad it got this ugly. It'll be interesting to get a sense of the crowd on Thursday's home game. Most of the people I talk to think Gaborik's asking for too much, but I wonder if this latest public spat will shift opinion at all.

Is there still hope? I like to think there is. Management has made a bit of a big deal about how they made they're best offer before the start of training camp, and that's what Dupuis effectively signed. BUT, they did give him that incentives package that improves on that best offer a fair amount. Hopefully the two sides still have the sense to shuffle some money around and come up with some sort of incentives package that satisfies Gaborik. I don't think the team is going to, on the face of it, move from their last base offer, though. Could be a long wait.

CechMY5HOLEman-ek! 10-28-2003 09:44 AM

There is a tier to Gaborik's bonus money (ala Dupuis contract). He can hit lower numbers and still get bonus money, albeit only 250K for 40 goals or 80 points (the 80 assists had to be a misprint). And there are tier's between that and the full 1.7mil for hitting the 60g or 110pt mark.

Although personally think the bonus numbers/money could use some creative adjustment, I don't see why it's so unrealistic to think Gaborik shouldn't be able to get some bonus money.

He was on pace for over 50 goals before he hit his horrendous slump. Moreover, if he is such a great player, then there is no reason to believe he can't get some decently high numbers. Look at the Heatley's, Kovalchuck's, Hossa's, Thornton's, etc. These are supposed to be comparable players talent wise (2 in their first contract, two in their 2nd), and they have/are racking up the points. Gaborik would already be making more than the likes of similar players (age/talent) who are outscoring him. Does it not make sense for him to have to equal their numbers to make additional funds (i.e. to be overpayed even more)?

As far as Dupuis contract goes, I believe the Wild had bonus money in their original deal(s)s for Dupuis as well. It is unclear if the bonus clause was similar to the one in the contract he signed or not. I'm not saying it was the same, because there is a good chance that it wasn't, but I don't think we know for sure either.

Edit: Please note, I want to make it perfectly clear that I have nothing against Gaborik or Wild Management. In this instance I happen to agree with the Wild, but I fully respect both sides. Gaborik has every right to stand firm with his beliefs as do the Wild. In the end, neither party will win.

Dan-o 10-28-2003 10:42 AM

Well, I made this comment in anther forum, but I'm wondering how you all feel about it. If Gabby signed in a month for the Wild's current offer, do you think the honeymoon could begin anew? Personally, I don't. Even if the guy signs, his relationship with the organization and especially the fans will probably never be the same, unless he somehow leads us to the Cup. I just think this is a real shame.

Goldy 10-28-2003 01:39 PM

How the fans react will be entirely up to him. So far he hasn't burned any bridges by saying anything disparaging or stupid.

If he comes back, plays hard, stays out of trouble, and puts up decent numbers, the fans will love him. If he starts sniping, and playing mediocre, the fans will be on his case.

I project the former - he has always seemed like a fairly classy guy so far, who plays hard (usually), and keeps his nose out of trouble. The unfortunate thing for him now will be that until this year, the team has tried to protect him and steer him away from unrealistic expectations. That honeymoon period is probably now over. Now he will have to accept more of the heat and more of the blame, whether justified or not.

GKJ 10-28-2003 04:02 PM

Doug Riseborough is sticking to his guns here, and he is the good guy right now. I'm not sure how much Gaborik is asking for, but by sitting out all year so early in a carreer you're only doing harm to yourself. Bad reputation, bad attitude and only bad things happen. Look at what happened to Alexei Yashin not too long ago (despite already having a contract). Look at what happened to Lindros. They're shells of their former selves. Neither will ever score 40 goals again, Gaborik's never done it before. Long holdouts, only bad things happen to you. The Wild have no room to cave in here, depsite a low payroll, they're setting a standard for the CBA, new salary structure by leaving their ONLY real star off the team. If the Wild still make the playoffs without Gaborik (and with their system, they don't need a super star as documented with Gaborik's long slump last season and other guys like Brunette and Dupuis stepping up. They'll be the big winners.

And if I sound like a total idiot, I don't even know what he is asking for. I would imagine it is in excess of 5 million. In a long term 6-year deal, that's how much I'd give him.

WildKubli44 10-28-2003 05:48 PM

I have to actually say that I am on Gaborik's side on this issue. Gaborik (well if he doesnt miss the season) should be one of the best, if not the best player in the league in a few years. Maybe I'm crazy, but I sure would like one of the best players in the league on my team. The Wild organization is raking in money by the boat load, the organization can easily, I mean Easily afford to pay him. Yes risebrough says we are sticking to the team concept, but you also have to have good players, and having someone with Gaborik's talent will only help the team. He may not be worth the money, but the Wild need him playing now and just need him on the team, so I think they can afford it and should just pay him.

Wild Thing 10-28-2003 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan-o
Well, I made this comment in anther forum, but I'm wondering how you all feel about it. If Gabby signed in a month for the Wild's current offer, do you think the honeymoon could begin anew? Personally, I don't. Even if the guy signs, his relationship with the organization and especially the fans will probably never be the same, unless he somehow leads us to the Cup. I just think this is a real shame.

I think the bloom is forever off the rose for me. He'd have to eat major crow in order to regain the respect I once had for him, and I seriously doubt he will do what he would need to do for me to ever warm up to him again. I mean, come on - $6.5 million? Get real, kid. Just another greedy, egotistical jock now.

Lake Harriet 10-29-2003 05:51 AM

Assuming a lock out next year, Gaborik could miss two years of pay and development at a crucial point in his career. Yashin was up there widely considered one of the best 5 players in the league before his lengthy absence. Where is he now. Gaborik, lead by an agent who needs some high profile contract wins for his own purposes, is taking a potentially disasterous course. Other players who have held out have done so later and only after becoming more established stars.

Mr. Tri 10-31-2003 04:57 AM

What I think gabby and his agents don't understand is that when the CBA changes contract structures and maximums it always takes a few years for creative agents to maximize the amount of money their clients can make. The fact that professional hockey is heading to trouble financially means that the players will eventually have to start taking less money. I'm a huge hockey fan, but I realize that hockey is fourth in popularity amongst sports in the US, but the ticket prices are first or second, that doesn't work in the long run. Something will give after this year.
Also, I wonder what people think about the repeated comparisons to Kariya's second contract since he's the person who left his stanley cup team for a contract way under his value. I don't think gabby's salary influences his staying or leaving in the next few years, but it could make it easier.

vitogor 10-31-2003 07:43 AM

To me personally the honeymoon has ended with our elimination by Anaheim. I was pretty realistic in my expectations for this season, I knew it was a very special season that wasn't supposed to happen, and that it wasn't going to happen again for a while. And that was before it became clear that Gaborik was going to hold out. We are just back where we really belong at this point, that's all. I'm not at all surprised or dissapointed. The honeymoon was great, now let the day-to-day marriage begin :)

aylib 10-31-2003 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #16
To me personally the honeymoon has ended with our elimination by Anaheim. I was pretty realistic in my expectations for this season, I knew it was a very special season that wasn't supposed to happen, and that it wasn't going to happen again for a while. And that was before it became clear that Gaborik was going to hold out. We are just back where we really belong at this point, that's all. I'm not at all surprised or dissapointed. The honeymoon was great, now let the day-to-day marriage begin :)

Gabby has started to fart in bed.

Surly Furious 10-31-2003 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aylib
Gabby has started to fart in bed.

Although now that he's signed, he doesn't looks half bad in curlers.

vitogor 10-31-2003 01:12 PM

Yeah, the wife put on a little make-up tonight, a little lipstick, looks just as pretty as we remember her from the honeymoon :D

Ok, I must stop now, this is getting twisted :D


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