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-   -   What is the purpose of the Nashville Predators organization? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=23687)

Basher 10-28-2003 06:35 PM

What is the purpose of the Nashville Predators organization?
 
DO WE REALLY WANT TO WIN?
I don't understand the point of the Nashville Predators existence. Since day 1 we have been merely surviving a long-shot of a chance to play hockey in Nashville. 6 seasons later we are still doing just that, surviving. I'm not jumping ship just yet, but fellows, come on. This is getting ridiculous. 3-5 isn't the end of the world, but 3-5 is just that, a losing season. It's not that bad, but I would challenge anyone in here to honestly say its gonna get any better in the next 3 games. 3-8 is bad, and thats when the questions will really start pouring in. Anyway, back to my question...What is the purpose of the Nashville Predators?

A: The NHL expands to Nashville to develop the superstar "talent" that we draft at a quicker pace. Being that we rely on such players much earlier than other teams would, the players are brought up at an NHL level as opposed to the AHL level, where they belong. After a few years, the players earn their salary, which is then dumped to let another young rising star play here, leaving Nashville with the over-cliched term "potential" in which we are so used to hearing.

B: Getting a team in a prodominant football town was a big enough accomplishment. Hey, I mean, if the NHL can expand to Nashville, why should ESPN take away coverage. Hockey is everywhere, yeah!

C: There is a ******-bag, somewhere in our hierarchy of team officials that is keeping us from doing what most people believe we should be trying to do, which is win. Whether it be Poile, Trotz, Leopold, or even our beloved Pete Weber, there is someone who is keeping us from winning.

That being said, answer "C" best fits the bill. Though my theories may not be far from correct, I don't think they will hold water when it comes down to the nitty gritty. So, why is the person that is responsible for our short-comings being that person? Why do we have all of the necessary keys to a sucessful franchise except, arguably, the scorer that this team has NEVER had.

I do really think that it boils down to that...scoring. We have never had anyone step up and be a real scorer for us, ever. Having one 20 goal scorer each season is not a healthy franchise goal. The year Scott Walker had 25, was that not one of our better years (when I say better, I mean, only marginally better than all of the other years, of course). Look at Atlanta this year, their defense is finally up to par with the rest of the league, I mean average at best, but even without their number 2 scorer they are tearing it up with one! Their horrendous D and bad goaltending negated the scoring in years previous, but now they are all caught up. We have all of that now, and I believe we are better on D, toughness, goaltending, but no, NOT scoring.

SOLUTIONS

First of all, I don't want to bring a solution up, because I don't know who I would want to come in. I don't wanna spend money or players and get a flop. This is your part, who do we bring in that will really "score" for us? Simple, eh'?

sparkle twin 10-28-2003 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basher
DO WE REALLY WANT TO WIN?....What is the purpose of the Nashville Predators?

Their purpose? To build up our hopes with a 3-1 start and then thoroughly beat down our bubble with a 0-4 stretch. Well, maybe not, but that's what it feels like right now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basher
I do really think that it boils down to that...scoring. We have never had anyone step up and be a real scorer for us, ever. Having one 20 goal scorer each season is not a healthy franchise goal. The year Scott Walker had 25, was that not one of our better years (when I say better, I mean, only marginally better than all of the other years, of course). Look at Atlanta this year, their defense is finally up to par with the rest of the league, I mean average at best, but even without their number 2 scorer they are tearing it up with one! Their horrendous D and bad goaltending negated the scoring in years previous, but now they are all caught up. We have all of that now, and I believe we are better on D, toughness, goaltending, but no, NOT scoring.

Scoring is definitely a problem for us. We do seem to be more of a passing team, always looking for something else rather than just taking a shot. The people we were counting on to score this year are, after only 8 games, not exactly getting it done.

If you want to talk about Atlanta, look at their scoring: 15 points from Kovalchuk, 11 from Savard. Everyone else has 7 or less points. Look at our points. Our leading scorer has 7 points. Also, Kovalchuk has scored 10 goals. Out of 18 players listed on their roster who have played in all 9 games for ATL, 8 have not scored a goal. Nashville has 14 players who have played in all 8 games, only 2 have not scored a goal. We have guys that if they play the way we all know they can (Legwand, Hartnell, Arkhipov, etc) then we can/will win a lot of games. If Kovy isn't scoring for Atlanta, they're not going to go far. A hot goalie can only take a team so far (see, Vokoun).

Look at our schedule and the teams we play. Not exactly some creampuff teams here. Atlanta is playing on emotion and benefitting from a not so tough schedule to start.

Our scheduled opponents through 15 games: Anaheim, Dallas, St.Louis, Columbus, Chicago, Atlanta, Colorado, St.Louis, Detroit, Dallas, Dallas, Vancouver, Chicago, Detroit, Calgary.

ATL scheduled opponents through 15 games: Columbus, Washington, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Chicago, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Florida, Toronto, Minnesota, Washington, San Jose, Buffalo, Columbus, NY Islanders.

Of the 10 teams we will have played, 6 were playoff teams (Ana, Dal, StL, Col, Det, Van.) Of the 12 teams atlanta will have played, 5 were playoff teams (Wash, TB, Min, NYI, Tor).

(Not to take anything away from Wash, TB, Min, NYI, Tor...because every night every team is beatable, but,) Notice a difference in the caliber of teams that ATL/NAS play? I think it would be quite a different story if Atlanta and Nashville were in the opposite conferences. We will never know what the outcome would be, but seriously, how would ATL fare if they had to face DET, STL 6 times a year, and DAL, VAN, Colorado 4 times a year?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Basher
SOLUTIONS

First of all, I don't want to bring a solution up, because I don't know who I would want to come in. I don't wanna spend money or players and get a flop. This is your part, who do we bring in that will really "score" for us? Simple, eh'?

Any solution would depend on who we were absolutely willing to part with. And whether parting with that player(s) would eventually do more harm than good. Ex: would trading some key young guys (that we have been preached to as being the future and basis of our team) be worth bringing in a guy who likely will not be with us for more than a season or 2?

dulzhok 10-29-2003 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basher
DO WE REALLY WANT TO WIN?
That being said, answer "C" best fits the bill. Though my theories may not be far from correct, I don't think they will hold water when it comes down to the nitty gritty. So, why is the person that is responsible for our short-comings being that person? Why do we have all of the necessary keys to a sucessful franchise except, arguably, the scorer that this team has NEVER had.

First of all, I don't want to bring a solution up, because I don't know who I would want to come in. I don't wanna spend money or players and get a flop. This is your part, who do we bring in that will really "score" for us? Simple, eh'?

You answered your own question. You question why this franchise doesn’t get a true scorer. Then you say you don’t know how to get a scorer.

Getting offensive player(s) to carry the team offensively is not an easy proposition.

These are the two things holding us back:

<i>1) Draft Position. </i>

In general, we have sucked over our existence. But we have always been “just good enough” to miss out on drafting the true offensive superstars. Atlanta got Kolachuk and Heatley. Minnesota got Gaborik. Columbus got Nash.

Contrary to popular belief, the reason we haven’t drafted these dominant offensive players isn’t because of “bad drafting.” It’s because of bad, unlucky, draft position.

Our luck has simply sucked when it comes to where we draft…

In 1998, there was only one “can’t miss” dominant offensive player. That player was Lecalavier. He was drafted #1, we picked at the #2 spot.

In 1999, there were no can’t miss, dominant offensive players.

In 2000, Minnesota and Columbus entered the league. Had they not, we would’ve been picking at the #3 position. And yes, Marian Gaborik would likely be a Predator.

In 2001, we picked at the 12th spot after having an almost .500 season. You can’t expect an offensive superstar at the 12th spot, though Edmonton may have hit the jackpot with the #13 pick, Ales Hemsky.

In 2002, had we lost ONE MORE GAME, we would’ve been picking at the #4 spot, Joni Pitkanen.

We’ll see how 2003 turns out. I thought we should’ve drafted one of the many high end offensive players available in the first round. We drafted a defenseman. I’m not knowledgeable enough to judge the selection now, but I will be seriously pissed if Suter isn’t a dominant defenseman and guys like Parise, Nilsson, Kasistyn, and/or Brown are putting up major offensive numbers.

<i>#2) Poile is afraid to take risks. He won’t even consider trading prospects. And yes, Leipold’s reluctance to spend money contributes to his fear of risks. </i>

In Columbus, they are proactive in getting scoring, picking up guys like Whitney, Sandersson, Caseels etc. That would not happen in Nashville. Why? Those guys have salaries of over 2 million. They just won’t do it. Ya, Columbus has a higher payroll than us, but they are brining in a lot more revenue.

In Atlanta, they take risks as well, for example, Marc Savard. That wouldn’t happen in Nashville. Why? Because Savard makes over 2 million and we would’ve likely had to trade a prospect. Poile seems to have a hard-lined stance--- DO NOT DEAL PROSPECTS. Thee only exception being when he traded Tomas Slovak, who of course, was traded for another prospect.

Poile’s fear of trading prospects probably dates to back to his days in Washington when he traded two prospects (Jason Allison and Anson Carter) for aging veterans (Oates and Tocchett). Since he botched that one, he is afraid of botching another one.

When talking about scorers, the thing that Poile has to be killing himself over is not picking Milan Hejduk in the expansion draft. Sure, it’d be easy to say that he was an unknown that was hidden in Europe. But that’s not the reality of the situation. Hejduk was tearing up the Czech League and played on the goal medal Olympic Team (yes, the one with NHL players). But Poile was afraid to take the risk. He saw an opportunity to get a free 2nd round draft pick by picking up Uwe Krupp. Hejduk wasn’t worth the risk of that sure-fire 2nd round draft pick.

PredsMan 10-29-2003 07:02 AM

REALLY good stuff Dulzhok.

:handclap:

Basher 10-29-2003 07:12 AM

So then, if we don't change anything about our losing ways now, does that mean we are just trying to survive. Just because Poile thinks building through the draft is a good idea, it doesn't mean he is right, heck, dulzhok, you just prooved him wrong! Why would be choose to build through drafts if they have all sucked, that is being dumb. If the "plan" hasn't worked in the alloted time frame, what makes them think it will work now. Soon enough fans will really start to leave, the homegrown fans, and our base will be squat. This is why I question this franchise's motives. I really am just tired of being that expansion team (hah, 6 years now) that is always on the bottom. My idea was that we could pick up one scorer, and I don't think that we have ANY 1 player in our entire system that deserves to be here just because they might be good in a couple more years. Nobody has prooven anything to anyone about being the go-to guy that we need. When you are loosing games and fans, respectively, something has to change.

Enoch 10-29-2003 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulzhok
When talking about scorers, the thing that Poile has to be killing himself over is not picking Milan Hejduk in the expansion draft. Sure, it’d be easy to say that he was an unknown that was hidden in Europe. But that’s not the reality of the situation. Hejduk was tearing up the Czech League and played on the goal medal Olympic Team (yes, the one with NHL players). But Poile was afraid to take the risk. He saw an opportunity to get a free 2nd round draft pick by picking up Uwe Krupp. Hejduk wasn’t worth the risk of that sure-fire 2nd round draft pick.

Hejduk was a fourth round pick, so I imagine every GM is kicking themselves right now.

Enoch 10-29-2003 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basher
So then, if we don't change anything about our losing ways now, does that mean we are just trying to survive. Just because Poile thinks building through the draft is a good idea, it doesn't mean he is right, heck, dulzhok, you just prooved him wrong!

You show me a good, cheap scorer, that would love to play in Nashville, and I will agree with you. Otherwise, your wrong. Their are not that many super-scorers in this league right now. Unfortunately we do not have one. I don't see how we can trade for one either, without seriously weaking our farm and team. We have a good steady stream of good players that will be coming in for many years to come. What do other teams have? Sure, we haven't found that goal-scorer yet, but they aren't the easiest thing to come by. Pollie will most likely make a trade for some offense this year, but I, personally, am glad that he chose to build through the draft. Now we have a future, and if we could get our players to play up to their abilities, could win now. Its hard enough that Nashville management had to start a franchise in a football town, but that they also had to do it in a low-market town to begin with. This alone tells of the struggles that Nashville almost uniquely has to face in this league.

dulzhok 10-29-2003 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch
Hejduk was a fourth round pick, so I imagine every GM is kicking themselves right now.

It's a little bit different. Hejduk was a 4th round pick in 1994. By 1996, he had established himself as a true sniper in the Czech League. In 1997, he was one of the best players in the Czech league at only 20 years old. He represented the Czech Republic at the 1998 Olympics, playing with NHL players like Jagr, Hasek, etc. The team won the gold medal. In the summer of 1998, Hejduk was left exposed in the expansion draft.

I'm sure there was some consideration on picking Hejduk (atleast I hope there was). But, by picking Krupp, Poile saw an opportunity to get a 2nd round pick through the free agent compensation loophole.

I'm not saying Poile is an idiot for not picking Hejduk. For an new franchise, getting more draft picks is usually a good thing. But in this instance, Poile has to be kicking himself in the head. Even more so that the GMs that passed him up in 1994. Because in 1998, he was an established sniper at a professional and Olympic level

Enoch 10-29-2003 07:34 AM

Well all I can say is that they must have believed Colorado's evaluation of him as subpar, as he was left exposed. :dunno:

triggrman 10-29-2003 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch
You show me a good, cheap scorer, that would love to play in Nashville, and I will agree with you. Otherwise, your wrong. Their are not that many super-scorers in this league right now. Unfortunately we do not have one. I don't see how we can trade for one either, without seriously weaking our farm and team. We have a good steady stream of good players that will be coming in for many years to come. What do other teams have? Sure, we haven't found that goal-scorer yet, but they aren't the easiest thing to come by. Pollie will most likely make a trade for some offense this year, but I, personally, am glad that he chose to build through the draft. Now we have a future, and if we could get our players to play up to their abilities, could win now. Its hard enough that Nashville management had to start a franchise in a football town, but that they also had to do it in a low-market town to begin with. This alone tells of the struggles that Nashville almost uniquely has to face in this league.

How about Martin St. Louis? How about Savard? How about Daigle?

Enoch 10-29-2003 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
How about Martin St. Louis? How about Savard? How about Daigle?

These guys are all high-powered offensive talent????

I'll give you St. Louis, and Savard is turning it around. However, these are not types of players I'm talking about.

triggrman 10-29-2003 08:54 AM

What do you want then? I give you examples of players we could have easily had on our roster that our actually producing and then you say that's not what you're talking about? Dulzhok is right.

For 6 years this club has needed a goal scorer for 6 years they've ignored it, and it is the only thing keeping this team from being a legit playoff contender. Poile has repeatedly dropped the ball on chances to bring in guys that can put the puck in the net, preferring grow the scorers on his own, it hasn't happened yet. You can tell me Shishkanov and you may be right, or he could be another Bartek, Cisar or Tenkrat.

hipcheck85 10-29-2003 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
What do you want then? I give you examples of players we could have easily had on our roster that our actually producing and then you say that's not what you're talking about? Dulzhok is right.

For 6 years this club has needed a goal scorer for 6 years they've ignored it, and it is the only thing keeping this team from being a legit playoff contender. Poile has repeatedly dropped the ball on chances to bring in guys that can put the puck in the net, preferring grow the scorers on his own, it hasn't happened yet. You can tell me Shishkanov and you may be right, or he could be another Bartek, Cisar or Tenkrat.

That last sentence made me do one of those Homer Simpson screams.

Czerkawski is another that could have been had for under 1 mill.
I know he is playing with Yashin right now but he is finishing his chances.
We have no player that can say that right now.

Enoch 10-29-2003 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggrman
What do you want then? I give you examples of players we could have easily had on our roster that our actually producing and then you say that's not what you're talking about? Dulzhok is right.

I didn't say we shouldn't go after scorers. I was only pointing out how hard it is to get a super-scorer. By that I mean, a Kovalchuk, Sakic, Modano, etc. I guess I'm being a little confusing here, and hey I agree with you ;)

My point was only that the price a super-scorer could command would likely weaken our team significantly. Not so much now as in the past, but it still would.

triggrman 10-29-2003 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipcheck85
That last sentence made me do one of those Homer Simpson screams.

Czerkawski is another that could have been had for under 1 mill.
I know he is playing with Yashin right now but he is finishing his chances.
We have no player that can say that right now.

thank you

The chances to pick up finishers have been there, Poile or someone has just dropped the ball on it, repeatedly.

Jarnberg 10-29-2003 05:27 PM

I find it amusing how quickly some people's tones change after a a few games.

Joe T Choker 10-29-2003 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csstranger
I find it amusing how quickly some people's tones change after a a few games.

you don't think we've played like crap the last 9 periods?

SmokeyClause 10-29-2003 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csstranger
I find it amusing how quickly some people's tones change after a a few games.

What's equally amazing is how the team can change after a few games. They haven't played with the same level of enthusiasm that they played the first 4 with (granted I didn't see the St. Louis game). I won't fault the team if they lose. I fault the team when they don't play with intensity. I didn't see that level of intensity through the past few games. That's the main reason why my attitude has changed. I don't think I am alone in this reasoning.

Jarnberg 10-29-2003 07:00 PM

I'm not saying the Preds have played well the past few games. But I find it amusing that people go from praising the team so much to totally questioning the whole organization. Are the Preds playing bad right now? Yes. Its still very early in the season. 3-5 is not the best start, but it isn't horrible either. Atleast we got off to a better start than last year. Give this season sometime before you completely knock the team.

Basher 10-30-2003 09:16 AM

I won't allow myself to be blinded with an occasional win. Right now, we stink! As far as questioning the franchise, that is different than downing the team. Saying we stink, is coming closer to downing the team, which right now they deserve.

SmokeyClause 10-30-2003 10:34 AM

I hold this franchise in a high regard. I trust David Poile to make the right decisions within the parameters given. I think he has put together a great team with tons of potential. We don't have snipers yet, but we have two on the horizon (Glazachev and Shiskanov). It's not all coming together immediately and it takes a little longer for us because we can't go out and get a Savard, Sydor, Marchant and Co. Our biggest FA signing (at the time the signing was made) was Tom Fitzgerald. With that in mind, it's going to take a while to create what I want to see on the ice. We are close, very close, but we aren't there yet. We are a proven scorer away from being a playoff team. And we are one more really solid Dman (which may emerge from our current crop) away from giving St. Louis a run for the 2nd overall in the division [provided we nab that scorer as well].

That being said, the team is still not performing up to par. I don't care if they can't score. I won't blame the team if they play a physically dominant game and lose. I want effort. The past couple of games that I have seen, I haven't seen the effort I was hoping. Sometimes, the puck just doesn't go in the net. But if I don't see effort consistently, I'll start complaing. And with the Colorado game and the Chicago game fresh in my mind, I'm still in a whiny mood.


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