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-   -   Toronto eyeing Gonchar, proposals? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=23709)

EroCaps 10-28-2003 08:19 PM

Toronto eyeing Gonchar, proposals?
 
so says "sources in TO" from the Washington Times...

what's he worth to you Leaf fans?

Steve 10-28-2003 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EroCaps
what's he worth to you Leaf fans?

I would assume he's worth no where near what Washington would want for him

RoyIsALegend* 10-28-2003 08:31 PM

Nik Antropov, Carlo Colaiccavo and TOR's 1st round pick.

BlueAndWhite 10-28-2003 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EroCaps
so says "sources in TO" from the Washington Times...

what's he worth to you Leaf fans?

A LOT.

What does Toronto have to offer ?

Not much that Washington would be interested in.
The Caps can do much better from about half the league. Whether half the league is interested or not (and IMO, A LOT of teams would be) remains to be seen.

BlueAndWhite 10-28-2003 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Nik Antropov, Carlo Colaiccavo and TOR's 1st round pick.

He said Toronto fans, not "I left my heart in Denver, though I've probably never been there" fans.

Epsilon 10-28-2003 08:34 PM

If Toronto could pick him up without moving one of their roster d-men they should definitely look at doing it. A top 4 of Gonchar/Kaberle/McCabe/Klee would easily be among the best in the Eastern conference. It's too bad for Toronto they wasted so many expendable assets on Owen Nolan.

nucks2001 10-28-2003 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
He said Toronto fans, not "I left my heart in Denver, though I've probably never been there" fans.

yeah... thats what its going to take I'm afraid.. I think you guys should be happy to get something for Oops I'm Hurt Again Antropov.

BlueAndWhite 10-28-2003 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nucks2001
yeah... thats what its going to take I'm afraid.. I think you guys should be happy to get something for Oops I'm Hurt Again Antropov.

Oh I don't doubt that it may take that or more. I don't doubt that at all. In my first post, I already stated I would give up A LOT. However, I don't really see the Leafs as "front runners" for Gonchar, because I am positive that many teams could make better offers.

Michalek 10-28-2003 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Nik Antropov, Carlo Colaiccavo and TOR's 1st round pick.

Isnt antrapov seriously injured again , I think that his health drops his value drastically

BlueAndWhite 10-28-2003 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michalek
Isnt antrapov seriously injured again , I think that his health drops his value drastically

His value wasn't that high to begin with. Antropov is out a month with a seperated shoulder. He tripped over an ATL player's skate and fell into the boards.

It is my contention that it would serve the Leafs better to keep Antropov and hope that he a.) stays healthy and b.) progresses as he has to date, than it is to trade him. The return you would get on Antropov (for the most part) is not significant enough when you consider the potential rewards he can bring his current team.

leafaholix* 10-28-2003 09:12 PM

If the Leafs can make a deal sooner rather then late, it would be great.

We've seen in the past where players become available and the Leafs take forever to make a serious bid, but by then there comes another team that is willing to part with more...

My offer...

To Toronto: Sergei Gonchar
To Washington: Darcy Tucker, Jay Harrison, 1st (2004), Cash

Ajacied 10-28-2003 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
If the Leafs can make a deal sooner rather then late, it would be great.

We've seen in the past where players become available and the Leafs take forever to make a serious bid, but by then there comes another team that is willing to part with more...

My offer...

To Toronto: Sergei Gonchar
To Washington: Darcy Tucker, Jay Harrison, 1st (2004), Cash

And tell me why the Washington Capitals would make that move?

Trading a top 5 defenseman in the entire National Hockey League for a pest, a below average prospect and a mid to low first?

Jay Harrison? WTF..

Darcy Tucker? With Halpern, Sutherby and Grier playing a somewhat simular, feisty checking game, Tucker would not be needed.

And a first.. even the Hawks have a first round pick, who cares about picks.

RIAL summed up my feelings on a package for Gonchar from a Leafs point of view pretty damn good. You wouldn't have any chance landing Gonchar without including a defenseman in return, but since the Leafs can't afford to deal either Kaberle or McCabe, Cola becomes the most logical option, and if Leaf fans or management refuse to include him, then you can totally forget about Gonchar. And even then, you'd still have to add a ton more, Antropov and a lil something else and that might do the trick.

Cause this proposal is pretty darn pathethic, no offense, it's not like you would do such a deal for Kaberle.

Kaberle for Doig, Grier and a low first?

leafaholix* 10-28-2003 09:32 PM

To Toronto: Sergei Gonchar
To Washington: Nikolai Antropov, Brendan Bell, 1st (2004)

andora 10-28-2003 09:36 PM

colaiacovo would surely have to be a part, and if we're getting gonchar.. bon voyage carlo

think-blue- 10-28-2003 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
If the Leafs can make a deal sooner rather then late, it would be great.

We've seen in the past where players become available and the Leafs take forever to make a serious bid, but by then there comes another team that is willing to part with more...

My offer...

To Toronto: Sergei Gonchar
To Washington: Darcy Tucker, Jay Harrison, 1st (2004), Cash

That's pretty bad.

Tucker and a 1st are a start, but you'd have to add something worth more than those individually for it to work. Antropov, Covo and/or Steen maybe.

And if thats the case - just forget it. The Leafs really can't afford to deal any of their few high end prospects or youth. The system is just now being replinished; and a move like this would set us back another year or two. Don't get me wrong, I love Gonchar, but the long term costs for the Leafs would be a bit too pricey to pay - espc. considering the window of opportunity for this Leafs team is rapidly closing (1, 2 , 3 years max depending on if there's a lock out).

Ideal situation for the Leafs - wait for a salary dump at the deadline, or persue an impending UFA on a non-playoff team (Rathje comes to mind)

leafaholix* 10-28-2003 09:41 PM

I agree, but people insist that Antropov would have to be a part of the offer as well... from a Leafs perspective, giving up both Antropov and Colaiacovo for Gonchar makes absolutely no sense. Especially with the whole CBA thing, are you willing to give up 14 years (or so) for Gonchar who very well may move home to Russia, maybe permanentely.

loveshack2 10-28-2003 09:45 PM

Quote:

The Schneider deal was a 1st, a 2nd, Avery, and Kuznetsov for Schneider.

The Blake deal was Blake and Reinprecht for Deadmarsh, Miller, Aulin, and a 1st (Correct me if I am wrong.)

Ninnima, a 2nd, and a 4th went for Torres and Isbister.

Those 3 guys "should" be somewhat good templates for a Gonchar trade. Anything that would be close to these trades would be fair.
This is quoted from another thread on these boards about a possible trade between Vancouver and Washington. I pretty much agree with it. Obviously none are exact templates though; Niinimaa is younger, while Blake and Schneider were both of UFA age, but when taken together they give a relatively good idea of the ballpark an offer should be in.

Also just to add, any deal between the Leafs and Washington involving Gonchar would *have* to involve the Caps receiving one of the Leafs roster defensemen. With Pilar now signed the Leafs will be carrying 7 d-men, plus Belak, plus Gonchar, plus they want to bring Kondratiev back up. So while it has nothing to do with value, I can almost guarantee that Berg, Jackman, or Pilar (or possibly more than one of them) would be heading to Washington. Not that it would be a huge problem since Washington is currently lacking defensemen and all three of those guys are relatively cheap.

EroCaps 10-28-2003 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
I agree, but people insist that Antropov would have to be a part of the offer as well... from a Leafs perspective, giving up both Antropov and Colaiacovo for Gonchar makes absolutely no sense. Especially with the whole CBA thing, are you willing to give up 14 years (or so) for Gonchar who very well may move home to Russia, maybe permanentely.

sorry, Gonchar hasn't mentioned or even insinuated moving to Russia; you could be thinking of Jagr...

andora 10-28-2003 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loveshack2
This is quoted from another thread on these boards about a possible trade between Vancouver and Washington. I pretty much agree with it. Obviously none are exact templates though; Niinimaa is younger, while Blake and Schneider were both of UFA age, but when taken together they give a relatively good idea of the ballpark an offer should be in.

interesting.. i'd say the blake deal is the closest comparison.. so maybe something like...

to toronto : gonchar and pettinger
to washington : colaiacovo, antropov, first rounder, berg

:dunno:

gonchar = blake
pettinger = rhino
colaiacovo = aulin
antropov = deadmarsh
first rounder = first rounder
berg = miller

??

EroCaps 10-28-2003 09:51 PM

TO TO: Gonchar, Halpern

TO WSH: Antropov, Colio, Berg, 1st (2004)

andora 10-28-2003 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EroCaps
TO TO: Gonchar, Halpern

TO WSH: Antropov, Colio, Berg, 1st (2004)


fricken done imo...

EroCaps 10-28-2003 09:53 PM

andora you read my mind! lol

leafaholix* 10-28-2003 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EroCaps
sorry, Gonchar hasn't mentioned or even insinuated moving to Russia; you could be thinking of Jagr...

No, although Jagr will go to Russia next season if there is no NHL, you can count on Gonchar to join him.

Gonchar goes home to Russia every summer and most likely would stay there if the NHL mess doesn't get resolved. Possibly a similar situation to Lidstrom, Forsberg, and possibly Naslund.

European guys who will be going home to play next season and may decide not to return. Money in the Russian Elite League isn't that bad, I believe Tverdovsky's making about $2,000,000 for this season.

MVP 10-28-2003 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Nik Antropov, Carlo Colaiccavo and TOR's 1st round pick.



That is about right in term of trade value.

leafaholix* 10-28-2003 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP
That is about right in term of trade value.

No it's not!

My trade offers may have been crappy, but I know that possibly 1 year of Sergei Gonchar's services is not worth a 23 year old, 6'6 second line centre... a top 25 prospect, and possibly a top 20 draft pick!

If there's any truth to the articles, we'll just have to wait and see...


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