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-   -   My 2 cents on Ovechkin (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=24318)

Sundried TOmato 10-31-2003 07:48 AM

My 2 cents on Ovechkin
 
I was lucky enough to follow both Kovalchuk's and Ovechkin's development from a young age. Here is my take on Ovechkin. He is very good in every aspect of the game. He can be downright brilliant at times. Dominating grown man at a tender age of 17, and still growing physically. He is quiet, polished, and determined. Much more media savvy than Kovalchuk at his age. Similar to Joe Sakic in many ways, but with Bure-like pure skill.

Here is why I prefer Kovalchuk. These two approach the game differently. Kovalchuk is all about passion and burning desire to win. Ovechkin is measured and professional. He is not playing Kovalchuk/Kovalev pond hockey - he is highly disciplined and wise beyond his years. Which is cool, of course – but I will take passion over polish.

Ilya is rougher around the edges then Alexander; but sky is the limit for him. I want to see how Ovechkin progresses. He is already a complete player; I wonder how much better he can get. Kovalchuk has progressed tremendously over the past 3 years. I watched him in Russia, and then saw him again in 03-04 in the NHL. Man, has he matured… If Ovechkin develops at the same pace, he’ll dominate the league by 06-07. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Mizral 10-31-2003 08:45 AM

I think the key difference between the two is simply talent. While Ovechkin is surely a great talent, guys of Kovalchuk's ilk come around once every 10 years. Ovechkin will, in my mind, no doubt be one of the better NHL'ers one day. But Kovalchuk will be *the best*.

Both are terrific guys off the ice, particularly Ovechkin, who is much more mature than Kovalchuk was/is.

Blatny Spears 10-31-2003 09:22 AM

Eh? Practically everything I hear says Ovechkin is the better talent of the two.

Jeffrey 10-31-2003 09:38 AM

IMO ovechkin is more talented than kovy ... but kovy is so determinated to dominate the league .. he play with passion and desire...

ovechkin is as fast as kovy(IMO) but kovy is stronger on his skate(that make him hard to stop him)..
on the other end Ovechkin has a EXEPTIONAL vision on ice (a la lemieux) !

but IMO kovy on his game is more hard to stop than ovechkin..

Kovalchuk : he plays a power forward type of game and his desires to suceed will help him to pass each step one by one .. and eventually became(i hope) the greatest russian player ever ...
potential: Mix between naslund and forsberg!(ouch!)

Ovechkin : He's still young but this guy is so mature it's incredible! he has IMO more upside than kovy ... but he will need a good place to develop (on a team that dont play crap hockey ... oh sorry.. trap hockey) ..
potential : i now i'll get killed for that but ... he could became as dominant as gretzky was at the time.. but he will have to work a lots ..


right now i would take kovy over ovechkin ( kovy is a sure bet)
future : if both guys reach their full potential i would take ovechkin anytime of the week !!! so much talents on him it's incredible..
but it's still too soon to tell..

just my opinion..

GB 10-31-2003 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blatny Spears
Eh? Practically everything I hear says Ovechkin is the better talent of the two.

True, but the more talented player isn't always the most exciting to watch, which is why Kovalchuk may be more people's favourite.

Liam

Mizral 10-31-2003 09:48 AM

Who is saying Ovechkin's talent level is better than Kovalchuk's? I've never heard this once. Most Russian Scouts reporting on Ovechkin say he's not quite as talented as Kovalchuk was in Russia.

Jeffrey 10-31-2003 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Who is saying Ovechkin's talent level is better than Kovalchuk's? I've never heard this once. Most Russian Scouts reporting on Ovechkin say he's not quite as talented as Kovalchuk was in Russia.

Ovechkin vision on ice is way more impressing than kovalchuk...
kovalchuk was known as a Pure goal scorer at the time...

AJ1982 10-31-2003 10:52 AM

Kovalchuk is a bigger,more fiery, rough and tumble version of Pavel Bure. That's something that doesn't happen very often, maybe once in 30 years. Ovechkin I haven't seen so I can't comment with first hand knowledge, unfortunately. What I've heard about him is basically what was said above. He's a model professional, very intelligent on the ice, with a skill level near Kovalchuk's. The intelligence is what is most intriguing because the best player in the game was Gretz and the reason he was so good was his unerstanding of the game and smarts on the ice.

MentalPowerHouse 10-31-2003 11:11 AM

Kovalchuk is almost like a Russian Maurice Richard.

Evilo 10-31-2003 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Who is saying Ovechkin's talent level is better than Kovalchuk's? I've never heard this once. Most Russian Scouts reporting on Ovechkin say he's not quite as talented as Kovalchuk was in Russia.

Link me to ANY report saying Ovechkin is less talented than Kovalchuk.

Ovechkin is twice the player Kovalchuk was at the same age.
We'll see how he develops, but he's probably the biggest phenom since Lindros or even Mario.

Le Golie 10-31-2003 12:03 PM

I have never read a report saying Kovalchuk is more talented than Ovechkin. Every scout I've read claims Ovechkin has more talent and potential.

It may be another product of today's hype-machine. I find it hard to believe he has the same skill set Kovalchuk has. I must admit I sure am looking forward to watching him develop though.

BlackJack21 10-31-2003 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryoptix
i now i'll get killed for that but ... he could became as dominant as gretzky was at the time.. but he will have to work a lots ..

I will be glad to live it for the 3rd time of my life if this happen, but I'm not sure ...

At 17 years old Wane was already the BEST player of the WHA, playing with mans and prbaly has been one of the top 5-10 players of the NHL.

I doubt that Alexander is that far in his developement...

Hopping you are Right... but I really think, as I said last year that Kowalchuck is the next 80 goal scorer and that Orvechkin is more like a 40g - 70a 110 pts players... that is far to be bad

BJ21

Big McLargehuge 10-31-2003 02:18 PM

I, too, have only heard that Ocechkin has more talent and potential than Kovalchuk.

AEKaki 10-31-2003 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral
Who is saying Ovechkin's talent level is better than Kovalchuk's? I've never heard this once. Most Russian Scouts reporting on Ovechkin say he's not quite as talented as Kovalchuk was in Russia.


They played in DIFFERENT LEAGUES!!!!
Ovechkin is far superior to Kovalchuk as ALL scouts indicate!

Ovechkin, at 16, is already contributing in the Superleague, as Ilya Kovalchuk dominated with Spartak Moscow of the High League in his last year. The 2 leagues don't even compare in playing style. The High League to the Superleague is like the AHL to the NHL.

Evilo 11-01-2003 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackJack21
I will be glad to live it for the 3rd time of my life if this happen, but I'm not sure ...

At 17 years old Wane was already the BEST player of the WHA, playing with mans and prbaly has been one of the top 5-10 players of the NHL.

I doubt that Alexander is that far in his developement...

Hopping you are Right... but I really think, as I said last year that Kowalchuck is the next 80 goal scorer and that Orvechkin is more like a 40g - 70a 110 pts players... that is far to be bad

BJ21

Well, not saying he's the next 99, but Ovechkin is among the best scorers in the Superleague which is a superior league to what the WHA was.
He's also playing with men. And he's among the best.

Captain8 11-01-2003 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundried TOmato
I was lucky enough to follow both Kovalchuk's and Ovechkin's development from a young age. Here is my take on Ovechkin. He is very good in every aspect of the game. He can be downright brilliant at times. Dominating grown man at a tender age of 17, and still growing physically. He is quiet, polished, and determined. Much more media savvy than Kovalchuk at his age. Similar to Joe Sakic in many ways, but with Bure-like pure skill.

Here is why I prefer Kovalchuk. These two approach the game differently. Kovalchuk is all about passion and burning desire to win. Ovechkin is measured and professional. He is not playing Kovalchuk/Kovalev pond hockey - he is highly disciplined and wise beyond his years. Which is cool, of course – but I will take passion over polish.

Ilya is rougher around the edges then Alexander; but sky is the limit for him. I want to see how Ovechkin progresses. He is already a complete player; I wonder how much better he can get. Kovalchuk has progressed tremendously over the past 3 years. I watched him in Russia, and then saw him again in 03-04 in the NHL. Man, has he matured… If Ovechkin develops at the same pace, he’ll dominate the league by 06-07. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

It's an interesting outlook and I think we have already seen some form of this divergence in the careers of Mogliny and Bure.

Bure could perhaps be portrayed as the more passionate and more flashy of the two. But Mogilny has a fine point to his game which Bure does not. It shows up in all areas -- passing, shooting, stickhandling, vision, defensive awareness, and overall team play. And yet it's Bure who has always been viewed as a fan draw, while Mogilny has quietly managed to become a very valuable component of contending teams while not necessarily playing the star role.

It will be intriguing to see to what extent Kovalchuk's and Ovechkin's careers parallel Bure's and Mogilny's. Kovalchuk's progress this year indicates that he is evolving into a stronger team player, so the comparison may not hold for long.

Foppa_Rules 11-01-2003 01:15 PM

Ovechkin
 
From what I've read, Ovechkin is more of a team player than Kovalchuk. Ovechkin also seems to be more developed defensively. And Ovechkin broke Kovalchuk's record along with Bure's and Maltsev's. No one has dominated the U20 championship the way Ovechkin did since Wayne Gretzky. When Ovechkin comes into the league I think you might see Kovalchuk get more goals but Ovechkin be a contender for the Hart and Art Ross in a few years. I found video of Ovechkin and he looks quite good. A lot of speed, definetly. He has a very good wrist shot and on the videos he likes to go 5-hole. He can also make plays so it's not all about him. Both Ovechkin and Kovalchuk will be huge forces in the league but I think Ovechkin will be more rounded and that Kovalchuk will probably score more goals but get fewer assists than Ovechkin. There is definetly some great hockey coming up.

JordanStaal#1Fan 11-01-2003 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MentalPowerHouse
Kovalchuk is almost like a Russian Maurice Richard.

Stupidiest statement ever...

Foppa_Rules 11-01-2003 08:24 PM

There is no doubt Kovalchuk is very good now, especially this season, but I just don't think he's much of a team player. How many assists does he have? He has 11 goals, 6 assists. Thats about half as many assists as goals.

Epsilon 11-01-2003 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foppa_Rules
There is no doubt Kovalchuk is very good now, especially this season, but I just don't think he's much of a team player. How many assists does he have? He has 11 goals, 6 assists. Thats about half as many assists as goals.

That's because he's the only player on the team that can put the puck in the net consistently. So should he be more of a "team player" by sacrificing goals to pass the puck to players who are less likely to score, and thereby decrease his team's chances of winning? Right now it looks like the Thrashers are doing pretty well for themselves with Kovalchuk as their offensive centerpiece.

Foppa_Rules 11-02-2003 04:41 AM

But surely he can't keep up this pace. If he can he's superman. Forsberg's going to have to work hard for the Hart and Art Ross this year!

Foppa_Rules 11-02-2003 04:42 AM

And I had read that he was less of a team player than Ovechkin before this year. I think Ovechkin is probably more of a playmaker.

Sundried TOmato 11-02-2003 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foppa_Rules
There is no doubt Kovalchuk is very good now, especially this season, but I just don't think he's much of a team player. How many assists does he have? He has 11 goals, 6 assists. Thats about half as many assists as goals.

Do us all a favor - watch the Thrashers game before making silly statements. Kovalchuk tries to involve his teammates as much as he can; the problem is, they can't finish. No wonder Kovalchuk and Heatley would only pass to each other when they played on the same line. Doing anything else would mean wasting an opportunity.

Sundried TOmato 11-02-2003 01:49 PM

I agree with everyone who says Ovechkin is a much better player at 17 than Kovalchuk was at that age. There is simply no comparison. Ovechkin plays like a man, Kovy played like a kid high on sugar. The question is: how will they develop over the course of their careers?

I expect Ovechkin to become a Sakic/Modano/Fedorov type of player; but not a player of Lemieux's or Gretzky's magnitude. Kovalchuk to me has some magic about him. I guess will see in a few years.

Pachoo 11-02-2003 02:20 PM

Ovechkin seems to be a better prospect at 17 then Kovy was at 17 from what everyone is saying.

But, will Ovechkin develop as well and as quickly in the NHL as Kovy has? Many great prospects never progress as far as we think they will.

Kovy HAS progressed. That is one unknown about Ovechkin that we don't really have about Kovy anymore.


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