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-   -   2005-06 Ontario Hockey League All-Rookie Teams (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=246419)

ReLyT 04-26-2006 10:27 PM

2005-06 Ontario Hockey League All-Rookie Teams
 
First Team
Centre John Tavares, Oshawa (95)
Left Wing Bryan Cameron, Belleville (73)
Right Wing Sergei Kostitsyn, London (87)
Defence Drew Doughty, Guelph (95)
Defence Mark Katic, Sarnia (89)
Goal Ryan Daniels, Saginaw (52)

Second Team
Centre Logan Couture, Ottawa (57)
Left Wing Oskar Osala, Mississauga 35)
Right Wing Dale Mitchell, Oshawa (33)
Defence Scott Aarssen, London (41)
Defence Jakub Vojta, Ottawa (32)
Goal Sebastian Dahm, Belleville (37)

Voting points in brackets

Petes1 04-26-2006 11:56 PM

Kind of shocked Trevor Cann doesn't atleast get 2nd all-rookie team for goalies. 16 year old with a 16-2-0-2 record, 1 shutout, 2.65 GAA, .919 Save %. Far better numbers then 18 year old Sebastien Dahm. I guess Cann benefited by playing for Peterborough, but still, it's very rare a 16 year old makes it in this league, let alone puts up stats like he did, they're better then Shantz's.

jwalk 04-27-2006 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReLyT
First Team
Centre John Tavares, Oshawa (95)
Left Wing Bryan Cameron, Belleville (73)
Right Wing Sergei Kostitsyn, London (87)
Defence Drew Doughty, Guelph (95)
Defence Mark Katic, Sarnia (89)
Goal Ryan Daniels, Saginaw (52)

Second Team
Centre Logan Couture, Ottawa (57)
Left Wing Oskar Osala, Mississauga 35)
Right Wing Dale Mitchell, Oshawa (33)
Defence Scott Aarssen, London (41)
Defence Jakub Vojta, Ottawa (32)
Goal Sebastian Dahm, Belleville (37)

Voting points in brackets


jwalk 04-27-2006 09:45 PM

Who votes on this ?
 
Thomas Pospisil has 26 more points than Cameron in 4 less games and 12 more points than Osala in 8 less games and he doesn't get voted in ? Kind of makes you think whoever voted didn't know what they were talking about.
Also, Katic beats Doughty by 1 point and plays 14 less games,and receives 6 less votes. See above.

Ex Storm 04-27-2006 10:33 PM

I'm pretty sure coaches, GMs etc vote on it, just like the other awards. I trust their opinions.

jwalk 04-29-2006 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippyime
I'm pretty sure coaches, GMs etc vote on it, just like the other awards. I trust their opinions.

Come on trippy - Pospisil got robbed. He played in the Czech elite league and is an excellent player. When a guy gets 2x as many points there's no question he should get the nod . What they probably should do is separate the European guys from the regular rookies and have 2 categories. But under the current rules Pospisil clearly should have been on at least the second team.

Ex Storm 04-29-2006 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalk
Come on trippy - Pospisil got robbed. He played in the Czech elite league and is an excellent player. When a guy gets 2x as many points there's no question he should get the nod . What they probably should do is separate the European guys from the regular rookies and have 2 categories. But under the current rules Pospisil clearly should have been on at least the second team.

Rafael Rotter also played in an elite league for three years before coming here, what's your point? Not every rookie can be named and not every rookie stands out. I'm sure they base it on more than just stats.

jwalk 04-29-2006 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippyime
Rafael Rotter also played in an elite league for three years before coming here, what's your point? Not every rookie can be named and not every rookie stands out. I'm sure they base it on more than just stats.

The point is very simple. It's clear that there is a voting bias against some of the Europeans because they are not considered true rookies by the voters.
By the way - I notice that Rotter is only 18 years old - which means he started playing in an European Elite league at 15. Which European Elite league can you play in at 15 ?

STS44 04-29-2006 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalk
The point is very simple. It's clear that there is a voting bias against some of the Europeans because they are not considered true rookies by the voters.
By the way - I notice that Rotter is only 18 years old - which means he started playing in an European Elite league at 15. Which European Elite league can you play in at 15 ?

If I remember what I had heard - you can play in any of the elite European leagues regardless of age. Good enough to make the team - you're on it. No age restrictions like there are here in North America. That is why in some European
countries the junior programs are stiffled - the best younger players play on the elite teams but get limited ice time. A good reason to come to the North American junior leagues - more ice time and a chance to develop as a player.

Ex Storm 04-29-2006 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalk
The point is very simple. It's clear that there is a voting bias against some of the Europeans because they are not considered true rookies by the voters.
By the way - I notice that Rotter is only 18 years old - which means he started playing in an European Elite league at 15. Which European Elite league can you play in at 15 ?

I don't think there's a bias against the Euros at all, it's the coaches and GMs that vote for it and have those Euros on their own teams, why would they be against them? It's not like we're talking about biased newspaper reporters.

Rotter played in the Austrian Elite League. Last season he played on a team with Jay Pandolfo and Eric Chouinard (two NHL players).

jwalk 04-29-2006 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STS44
If I remember what I had heard - you can play in any of the elite European leagues regardless of age. Good enough to make the team - you're on it. No age restrictions like there are here in North America. That is why in some European
countries the junior programs are stiffled - the best younger players play on the elite teams but get limited ice time. A good reason to come to the North American junior leagues - more ice time and a chance to develop as a player.

Unless we're talking about a real hockey backwater here like Romania or something where there maybe 15 hockey sticks in the whole country - I would find it extremely difficult to believe that a 15 (FIFTEEN !) year old year could be playing in a European Elite League.

jwalk 04-29-2006 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippyime
I don't think there's a bias against the Euros at all, it's the coaches and GMs that vote for it and have those Euros on their own teams, why would they be against them? It's not like we're talking about biased newspaper reporters.

Rotter played in the Austrian Elite League. Last season he played on a team with Jay Pandolfo and Eric Chouinard (two NHL players).

Trippy -you're obviously a knowledgable hockey fan. You yourself expressed in post 36 of the Kostitsyn - Tavares debate that "Age does play a factor " when one is considering voting for rookies. It's my opinion that a lot of the guys that do the voting think the same way as you do. The simple solution is to have a second category for the Europeans.
By the way I was sorry to see your Storm go down to the hated Knights !

JrHockeyFan 04-29-2006 05:50 PM

Well
 
I expect that voting on the team is not limited to points scored. If it was, why vote? All you would have to do is fill in the teams based upon points scored.

There are other things to consider like defensive play, checking skills, skating skills, stick handling, passing skills, shooting, sportsmanship, etc.

I see no bias against Europeans. There are 4 chosen, when there are quite few in the league. Pospisil could score but quite frankly he needs to work on the rest of his game. Besides wasn't he a Right Wing? That puts him up against Sergei Kostitsyn and Mitchell for Oshawa. Mitchell scored 43 points for the Gens and was a -1 for Plus/Minus! Even Tavares was a minus 13.

Ex Storm 04-29-2006 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalk
Trippy -you're obviously a knowledgable hockey fan. You yourself expressed in post 36 of the Kostitsyn - Tavares debate that "Age does play a factor " when one is considering voting for rookies. It's my opinion that a lot of the guys that do the voting think the same way as you do. The simple solution is to have a second category for the Europeans.
By the way I was sorry to see your Storm go down to the hated Knights !

I agreed with you...somewhere...that I like the idea of having another category for imports.

jwalk 04-30-2006 11:48 AM

[QUOTE=JrHockeyFan]I expect that voting on the team is not limited to points scored. If it was, why vote? All you would have to do is fill in the teams based upon points scored.

There are other things to consider like defensive play, checking skills, skating skills, stick handling, passing skills, shooting, sportsmanship, etc.

I see no bias against Europeans. There are 4 chosen, when there are quite few in the league. Pospisil could score but quite frankly he needs to work on the rest of his game. Besides wasn't he a Right Wing? That puts him up against Sergei Kostitsyn and Mitchell for Oshawa. Mitchell scored 43 points for the Gens and was a -1 for Plus/Minus! Even Tavares was a minus 13.[/QUOTE
For the sake of argument if we consider Pospisil a RW (altho he played LW as well as centre)and put him up against Mitchell. He still scored 30 % more ppg than Mitchell,and if you factor in the differential in games - that's close to 40 % higher ppg. Statisically speaking that's a huge differential.

I agree with you that stats aren't everything because like you stated were then whats the point of the exercise. However, having watched the Gens play most Sunday nights ( I live in Ajax and watch them on channel 10 ) Mitchell in my view is a fireplug who's tough and can grind it out. Skillwise, I don't think he can touch Pospisil.

JrHockeyFan 04-30-2006 03:22 PM

Hmmmm
 
[QUOTE=jwalk]
Quote:

Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
I expect that voting on the team is not limited to points scored. If it was, why vote? All you would have to do is fill in the teams based upon points scored.

There are other things to consider like defensive play, checking skills, skating skills, stick handling, passing skills, shooting, sportsmanship, etc.

I see no bias against Europeans. There are 4 chosen, when there are quite few in the league. Pospisil could score but quite frankly he needs to work on the rest of his game. Besides wasn't he a Right Wing? That puts him up against Sergei Kostitsyn and Mitchell for Oshawa. Mitchell scored 43 points for the Gens and was a -1 for Plus/Minus! Even Tavares was a minus 13.[/QUOTE
For the sake of argument if we consider Pospisil a RW (altho he played LW as well as centre)and put him up against Mitchell. He still scored 30 % more ppg than Mitchell,and if you factor in the differential in games - that's close to 40 % higher ppg. Statisically speaking that's a huge differential.

I agree with you that stats aren't everything because like you stated were then whats the point of the exercise. However, having watched the Gens play most Sunday nights ( I live in Ajax and watch them on channel 10 ) Mitchell in my view is a fireplug who's tough and can grind it out. Skillwise, I don't think he can touch Pospisil.

Any fireplug who can pull off a -1 for the Gens (while Tavares with all his points was a -13) must be doing something that requires skills other than scoring.

There isn't much point in arguing one way or the other. Both players are skilled. But I can see why Mitchell got votes.

Default101 05-02-2006 03:55 AM

how Tomas Pospisil wasn't named is a complete mystery, i he was about as good as Kostitsyn, he played injured for about 5 games and was out for a few more, when Painchaud left he was the one tha tmade the offense happen in upset wins vs. teams like Owen Sound and Guelph, he was an unbelieveable player every time i saw him play, and was i think 6/6 on shootouts or something like that?


Also Mark Katic was injured for awhile, that must have been what hurt him, because his strength's to his game are mostly the same as doughty except better plus as you said 1 less point and he played on a much worse team with worse d-partners most of the season they had an enforcer as his d-pairing to protect him.

Ex Storm 05-02-2006 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ry-Dogg
Also Mark Katic was injured for awhile, that must have been what hurt him, because his strength's to his game are mostly the same as doughty except better .

This guy is quickly becoming one of the most overrated players in the OHL. He's good, but come on.

Default101 05-02-2006 01:55 PM

katic's biggest skills are his skating and his passing, in the coaches poll this year he was rated a third, and wasn't too far off to 2 guys that are 19, Katic is still 16 and was only 2 votes out of 3rd so that in itself is something special, i haven't seen sekera skate, Katic and Doughty's passing abilities are very close, so edge could go either way, but from what i've heard about Doughty is his skating and passing are his best skills, i don't think Katic is a blowout ahead of him, but the ISS has Katic ranked 3rd overall in the 2007 draft, and the top pick out of the OHL so right now Katic is being hyped up everywhere, and i've seen him play on a good day and i think he's earned everything he's got, he'll be a clear cut top 5 pick if he stays healthy

JrHockeyFan 05-03-2006 11:40 AM

Agreed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trippyime
This guy is quickly becoming one of the most overrated players in the OHL. He's good, but come on.

I agree with you on that. Also, regarding Pospisil . . .

I saw plenty of Pospisil and trying to put him at the same level of Tavares, Couture, or Kostitsyn is wishful thinking. He is a good player but not great. Those three bring more to the table than Pospisil does. And I believe all of those players missed games too going to various World events. Kosty was gone for the WJHC B pool and was awarded best player in the event.

JrHockeyFan 05-03-2006 11:50 AM

RE Pospisil Shootouts
 
Quote:

he (Pospisil) was an unbelieveable player every time i saw him play, and was i think 6/6 on shootouts or something like that?
How about 3 for 5 with one game winner

Wolski was the leader at 6 for 6

Default101 05-04-2006 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
How about 3 for 5 with one game winner

Wolski was the leader at 6 for 6

hmm... i heard all season he was undefeated in shootouts, i saw 2 sarnia shootouts and Pospisil scored easily on both of them

Default101 05-04-2006 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
I agree with you on that. Also, regarding Pospisil . . .

I saw plenty of Pospisil and trying to put him at the same level of Tavares, Couture, or Kostitsyn is wishful thinking. He is a good player but not great. Those three bring more to the table than Pospisil does. And I believe all of those players missed games too going to various World events. Kosty was gone for the WJHC B pool and was awarded best player in the event.

Pospisil had his spot at the WJC but he was replaced when he went down iwth a leg injury in early/mid december.


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