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-   -   Whats wrong: our line formations are horrible (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=248135)

InGaineyWeTrust* 05-01-2006 10:40 PM

Whats wrong: our line formations are horrible
 
Im a passionate habs fan and i truly believe that we can win the series, but what i want to know is how can we win our defensemen are a bigger offensive threat than our forwards, and other than kovalev, theres really no1 producing on attack...kovalev loves the team but i feel that hes frustrated because his linemates arent good enough to play with him. I think the only way for us to win 2morow is to change our line formations abit.

ryder-ribeiro-kovalev
kostitsyn-bonk-bulis
zednik-plekanec-perezhogin
higgins-murray-downey

drastic changes such as these will not happen and ill be the 1st one to say that experimenting when ur 1 loss away from elimination is not wise, but some of these changes should occur, and for the ppl who think splitting ryder and higgins is a mistake, just look at what they have done minus koivu, a big NOTHING, they look like lost sheep out there without koivu, so before things get worse we must make some changes

les3couleurs 05-01-2006 10:47 PM

I'm sorry but if the current lines are working, they're still way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way better than what you've proposed.

Shabutie 05-01-2006 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les3couleurs
I'm sorry but if the current lines are working, they're still way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way better than what you've proposed.

They aren't though. The only line that shouldn't be split up, is the Plek line. Imo, we definitely need either Higgins or Ryder on the Ribs line. My lines would be;

Higgins - Ribs - Kovalev
Perez - Plek - Zed
Kost - Begin - Ryder
Murray - Bonk - Downey/Sunny

Imo, Gainey has to work with what we've got and since Koivu was injured, he hasn't. It's time to mix it up a little.

guapo23 05-01-2006 11:23 PM

line combos
 
I think the best solution is to look at who is playing hard.

For the forwards, only Kovalev, the Plekanec line and Murray & Begin are playing with energy in the last 2 games.

I suggest :

1. Zednik Plekanec Kovalev
2. Higgins Begin Ryder
3. Perez Ribeiro Bulis
4. Murray Bonk Sunstrom


The Plekanec line gets chances but can't bury the puck.
With Kovalev that would change. Zednik & Kovalez were great together in last seasonn's playoffs.

Ryder & Higgins could use some energy to create turnovers : hence Begin.
Higgins & Begin work the boards, feed Ryder.

Ribeiro needs to play with speedy players. Bulis & Perez have lots of speed and Bulis backchecks well.

The 4th line played great the 1st two games. I say bring them back together...

I think these create some balanced lines : each line has a bit of speed, board cycling ability and offensive skills.

gohabsgo2010 05-02-2006 06:51 AM

Zednik - Plek - Perez
Higgins - Bonk - Ryder
Kost - Ribeiro - Kovalev
Bulis - Begin - Murray

Netro 05-02-2006 07:32 AM

Habs lines do need a change - Only 1 line really working, the Pleks line.

I would go with:
Higgins-Bonk-Kovalev
Bulis-Ribs-Ryder
Zednik-Plekanec-Perezhogin
Sundstrom-Begin-Murray

Tough call to insert Sunny over Kost but game 6 is not the time to insert a rookie into the line-up for his first playoff game

Russeltown 05-02-2006 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie
They aren't though. The only line that shouldn't be split up, is the Plek line. Imo, we definitely need either Higgins or Ryder on the Ribs line. My lines would be;

Higgins - Ribs - Kovalev
Perez - Plek - Zed
Kost - Begin - Ryder
Murray - Bonk - Downey/Sunny

Imo, Gainey has to work with what we've got and since Koivu was injured, he hasn't. It's time to mix it up a little.

Best lines without Saku I've seen on this board. :clap: You should be a coach ;)

Shabutie 05-02-2006 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sYn
Best lines without Saku I've seen on this board. :clap: You should be a coach ;)

Pretty simple, I think if you put every thing together, every line should have at least 1 defensively reliable player, at least 1 player who's good along the boards, and at least 1 who's good at forchecking/backchecking. I also know that Bonk is not suited for top 2 line duties on this team.

LeMAD 05-02-2006 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in gainey we trust

ryder-ribeiro-kovalev
kostitsyn-bonk-bulis
zednik-plekanec-perezhogin
higgins-murray-downey

Talk about an awful 2nd line...

And what's doing higgins on the 4th? Bulis RW? Ryder LW?

mcphee 05-02-2006 08:42 AM

I think Gainey,Carbo and co. look at every possible mix. They've written down everything we have, probably more often. I think the problem comes down to matchups. We list this stuff daily and it's what we do, so do I, but the issue is what will work against particular players. Pleks line is working, esp. against Staal, who though he's been productive has been played at least even, 5 on 5. Kovy has to play with Ribs imo, because Kovy has the low presence defensively that Ribs needs help with. Bonk,Murray,Begin are the center options, and imo, none of them are that good. Higgins and Ryder contribute best on a high tempo line. Bonk isn't that guy and the other 2 aren't really legit NHL centers imo, though both are good players. You can get a game or 2 out of them maybe, but the Canes are a tough team to match up with at C. Weiht isn't the player he was, Addams is a grinder, but they're experienced C's who know how to position themselves and play a fundamental game.

The problem with a long series is by the middle, there are no surprises, it's a matter of determination and winning 1 on 1 battles. The Ryder's and Higgins and Bullis' have to realize that they don't have to score on very shift, but they have to get to the puck first and make the Canes commit 2 men to stopping them.

LeMAD 05-02-2006 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie
They aren't though. The only line that shouldn't be split up, is the Plek line. Imo, we definitely need either Higgins or Ryder on the Ribs line. My lines would be;

Higgins - Ribs - Kovalev
Perez - Plek - Zed
Kost - Begin - Ryder
Murray - Bonk - Downey/Sunny

Imo, Gainey has to work with what we've got and since Koivu was injured, he hasn't. It's time to mix it up a little.

Your 3rd line doesn't make any sense. The rest looks good thought...

Shabutie 05-02-2006 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMAD
Your 3rd line doesn't make any sense. The rest looks good thought...

I inserted Begin there, cuz if you put Bonk, the line will be horrible. Bonk and Ryder are both slow and both suffer from a lack of creativity in the offensive zone (well in Ryder's case...he tries too much and always loses the puck).

Edit: oh and you could insert Bulis as the 3rd center, totally forgot about him (wonder why).

e-e 05-02-2006 08:58 AM

how about

markov-ribs-kovalev
perezogin-plekanec-zednik
higgins-begin-downey/ryder
downey/bulis- bonk- murray

suroay-komi
cube-rivet
dandy-streit

huet

InGaineyWeTrust* 05-02-2006 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-e
how about

markov-ribs-kovalev
perezogin-plekanec-zednik
higgins-begin-downey/ryder
downey/bulis- bonk- murray

suroay-komi
cube-rivet
dandy-streit

huet

maybe markov would be better on offense after seeing him play this series :confused:

InGaineyWeTrust* 05-02-2006 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMAD
Talk about an awful 2nd line...

And what's doing higgins on the 4th? Bulis RW? Ryder LW?

ya ur right now that i think about it :shakehead

e-e 05-02-2006 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in gainey we trust
maybe markov would be better on offense after seeing him play this series :confused:

u never know. i'd try that. kovalev would be happy too.

Hab at it 05-02-2006 10:34 AM

I would try:

Higgins - Ribs - Kovalev(Higgins to go in there and work where Ribs and Kovy won't)
Perezhogin - Plekanec - Zednik(there working so don't break it up)
Begin - Bonk - Kostitsyn(begin & Bonk were great at the end of the season)
Bulis - Murray - Ryder

Marc the Habs Fan 05-02-2006 10:40 AM

How many more times does it need to be said? Gainey said on Saturday they are NOT using the callups for the rest of this series. They are going with players who have been in the NHL for the whole season essentially. Kostitsyn will not play, stop dreaming of him being inserted into the lineup. :)

Watsatheo 05-02-2006 10:53 AM

zed ribs kovalev
higgy pleks perez
begin bonk ryder
sunny murray bulis

StanleyCH25 05-02-2006 11:21 AM

McPhee said it best.. it's not only about who plays well with who but also about having to match up against the other team's lines. It also depends on who has last line change as this can impact the type of lineup you want to put out.

I've been pretty happy with what we've seen without Koivu as I don't think that much else would give us a better result. If anything, it shows us something that is blatently obvious: we aren't very deep at C. When we lost Koivu, it really was a turning point in this series but I'm rather surprised that we've managed to keep up with the Canes and stay alive. We've lost each game by only 1 goal so we're doing better than you guys might think and drastic line changes aren't necessarily the answer.

I'm hoping that Ryder can produce a couple of points because without any production, he's a complete liability out there. I've seen so many turnovers come from his play or just losing the puck or battles along the boards.

Hopefully the guys come to play hard tonight and limit their mistakes as little things have cost us the game (Souray going for a big hit and missing, Bouillon trying to keep a puck in the offensive zone and going for a hit but allowing a 2 on 1, etc..). Some of these risks are worthwhile but those ones wouldn't have lead to anything beneficial since the play was kind of broken up anyways but instead lead to the opposition having a great scoring chance (or actually scoring).

Keep the lines the way they are and hope that we can outplay and outwork the Canes tonight but more importantly, limit our mistakes.

e-e 05-02-2006 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patp77
McPhee said it best.. it's not only about who plays well with who but also about having to match up against the other team's lines. It also depends on who has last line change as this can impact the type of lineup you want to put out.

I've been pretty happy with what we've seen without Koivu as I don't think that much else would give us a better result. If anything, it shows us something that is blatently obvious: we aren't very deep at C. When we lost Koivu, it really was a turning point in this series but I'm rather surprised that we've managed to keep up with the Canes and stay alive. We've lost each game by only 1 goal so we're doing better than you guys might think and drastic line changes aren't necessarily the answer.

I'm hoping that Ryder can produce a couple of points because without any production, he's a complete liability out there. I've seen so many turnovers come from his play or just losing the puck or battles along the boards.

Hopefully the guys come to play hard tonight and limit their mistakes as little things have cost us the game (Souray going for a big hit and missing, Bouillon trying to keep a puck in the offensive zone and going for a hit but allowing a 2 on 1, etc..). Some of these risks are worthwhile but those ones wouldn't have lead to anything beneficial since the play was kind of broken up anyways but instead lead to the opposition having a great scoring chance (or actually scoring).

Keep the lines the way they are and hope that we can outplay and outwork the Canes tonight but more importantly, limit our mistakes.


we have more C that we need. higgins and bulis played center but bg doesnt use them there, bulis had great last season as a center. i don't recall him playing ceneter as a hab.

Habruti! 05-02-2006 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hab at it
I would try:

Higgins - Ribs - Kovalev(Higgins to go in there and work where Ribs and Kovy won't)
Perezhogin - Plekanec - Zednik(there working so don't break it up)
Begin - Bonk - Kostitsyn(begin & Bonk were great at the end of the season)
Bulis - Murray - Ryder


I think this would likely be the best lineup... except I doubt that we would bring in Kostsitsyn. The following might be more probable....

Higgins, Ribs, Kovalev <---------- For the same reasons
Perezhogin, Plekanek, Zednik <--- For the same reasons
Begin, Bonk, Ryder <---------- I think they need a sniper with them
Bulis, Murray <---------- Mostly to keep fresh for PK
Play with 7d, alternate Murray/Ryder to provide more robustness. Alternate Perez with Ryder for PP. I think we could win that way...

ChemiseBleuHonnete 05-02-2006 11:46 AM

Higgins-Bulis-Kovalev
Ryder-Ribeiro-Zednik
Murray-Plekanec-Perezhogin
Begin-Bonk-Downey

Markov-Komisarek
Souray-Rivet
Bouillon-Dandenault

Huet

Habs4Lyfe 05-02-2006 11:49 AM

isnt Bulis a natural center?
I remember the few games that Julien/Gainey played him at Center...he played REALLY well...much better than he does on the wing :dunno:

Mike8 05-02-2006 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-e
we have more C that we need. higgins and bulis played center but bg doesnt use them there, bulis had great last season as a center. i don't recall him playing ceneter as a hab.

They're both lousy on the draw. Which is important.


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