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-   -   All over for Joe? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=248744)

RedHotChiliPanthers 05-03-2006 10:18 AM

All over for Joe?
 
This was in the paper today. Sorry HG, according to this report, Joe is expected to retire. It is not surprising considering he played the season with a awful back.


See the botom of the article

If he does retire, there's a better chance of the cats getting a 25-30 goal scorer this off-season.

catfan927 05-03-2006 10:44 AM

Consider the source, it is Garrioch after all! Considering the way Newy finished the year I would be shocked if it were true. Sorry, I just dont buy it!!!

RedHotChiliPanthers 05-03-2006 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catfan927
Consider the source, it is Garrioch after all! Considering the way Newy finished the year I would be shocked if it were true. Sorry, I just dont buy it!!!

I know Garrioch likes to bring attention to himself but the guy is right more than he's wrong as I read the Ottawa Sun everyday. We'll see, I'm not sold on it too but considering the fact that doctors advised him to not play hockey anymore when he was out, I wouldn't dismiss it.

Nieuwy25 05-03-2006 11:27 AM

Nooooooooo! :cry: One more year, Joe!

Crossbar 05-03-2006 12:50 PM

Not surprising if it's true, everyone knew what we were getting with his age and he was worth every penny IMO.

Mogo 05-03-2006 01:08 PM

Ugh this would suck. Although I'd rather have extra 2M$ to play with than have Joe play 10 games for us next season. Anyways.. If Joe does go dont look for Panthers to acquire any new centers look for them to use Gratton as the #2 center :(

catfan927 05-03-2006 01:29 PM

I fwd this to several other hockey writers both local and national. So far 2 have gotten back to me and both dont give it much weight. One said that after the season all of Joe's comments were about coming back and playing next season.

Clint 05-03-2006 01:38 PM

It would be a big, BIG, loss for the Panthers. Without Nieuwendyk, we have no legit 2nd line pivot with scoring touch to keep some pressure off Jokinen. Gratton just isn't the guy for the job, and Weiss just isn't good enough yet to take over full time 2nd line duties. Not to mention the leadership and maturity he brings to the locker-room.

I certainly hope this isn't true. He's been invaluable this past year, when healthy.

Acadmus 05-03-2006 01:48 PM

I'm also hoping it's not true - another year with HG's Joey in the lineup would be great for this team, especially when they reach the playoffs next season.

If he does hang 'em up, look for Weiss to be handed the job (ready or not, Clint).

My biggest concern losing Joe is who's going to win important faceoffs?

RedHotChiliPanthers 05-03-2006 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogo
Ugh this would suck. Although I'd rather have extra 2M$ to play with than have Joe play 10 games for us next season. Anyways(

Very true, just look at how the cats sucked when he was injured and we had no one to replace him.

FlaPnthrsPunk 05-03-2006 03:07 PM

I'm really hoping this won't happen. I feel Joe was worth the $2.5 mil we signed him for, not just because of his 20 something goals, but more on a leadership scale to the younger guys. The team played much better overall when he was in the lineup. At least the decision should come early enough so Keenan will know whether to sign any good Centers in free agency.

Coolburn 05-03-2006 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbar
Not surprising if it's true, everyone knew what we were getting with his age and he was worth every penny IMO.

When Mogilny was rumored to be retiring this season (and then again brought up by McKenzie when Andreychuk was waived), there was apparently something in the new CBA that doesn't get the team off the hook for his cap amount in future yrs. So if he retires, his cap number for next yr apparently still counts...are you sure he was worth EVERY penny (or are you just referring to this season based on his production)? So for you guys expecting to get that money to be used if he does retire...think again.

Also found the McKenzie article about this: Careful Signing Veterans

Happy Girl 05-03-2006 05:43 PM

Garrioch can bite me. He said this same crap back in November. When my Joey says it, then I guess I'll have to believe it. But I ain't buyin it just from this.

RedHotChiliPanthers 05-03-2006 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn
When Mogilny was rumored to be retiring this season (and then again brought up by McKenzie when Andreychuk was waived), there was apparently something in the new CBA that doesn't get the team off the hook for his cap amount in future yrs. So if he retires, his cap number for next yr apparently still counts...are you sure he was worth EVERY penny (or are you just referring to this season based on his production)? So for you guys expecting to get that money to be used if he does retire...think again.

Also found the McKenzie article about this: Careful Signing Veterans

man, this is crazy! Players can just decide to retire and then the team is still stuck with their salary for the cap. Wow!

Still, if Niewy decides to retire, the cats won't have to really pay the salary, so they have the money to spend as long as they are not next to the cap.

angry_treefrog 05-03-2006 10:26 PM

Despite some nice moments, towards the end of the season he seemed out of sorts and much of the time was not an asset on the ice. (This was much more apparent when watching the game in person than on TV.) I am not surprised to hear that the back has been bothering him. I hope for his sake (and his family's) he retires before it gets worse. I think he's earned a bit of rest on those laurels of his.

Crossbar 05-03-2006 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn
When Mogilny was rumored to be retiring this season (and then again brought up by McKenzie when Andreychuk was waived), there was apparently something in the new CBA that doesn't get the team off the hook for his cap amount in future yrs. So if he retires, his cap number for next yr apparently still counts...are you sure he was worth EVERY penny (or are you just referring to this season based on his production)? So for you guys expecting to get that money to be used if he does retire...think again.

Also found the McKenzie article about this: Careful Signing Veterans

Yeah I was referring to the latter.

PantherBlood6* 05-03-2006 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angry_treefrog
Despite some nice moments, towards the end of the season he seemed out of sorts and much of the time was not an asset on the ice. (This was much more apparent when watching the game in person than on TV.) I am not surprised to hear that the back has been bothering him. I hope for his sake (and his family's) he retires before it gets worse. I think he's earned a bit of rest on those laurels of his.

....i'm a season ticket holder and i have no clue what you're talking about. he finished the season awfully strong. 15 points in 9 games in the month of april with 7 of those being goals.

i don't buy this for a minute. i thought towards the trade deadline that nieuwy may retire and we may be better off dealing him - but he convinced me with his speech after the last game of the season. he gave every indication he would be back and he doesn't strike me as the type to lead a fanbase on one way then turn his back on them.

garrioch is an idiot - he constantly throws crap up against the wall and hopes it sticks. he's probably going off those retirement rumors earlier on this season when joe was having back problems and was forced to sit out for 10 games or so. maybe he does have some inside source on this one, but i am skeptical since i havent heard a thing from the local media or any other canadian outlet (joe nieuwendyk possibly retiring would be big news - especially in toronto).

hope for our sake it is not true...i really wouldn't be surprised either way, though.

Coolburn 05-04-2006 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupFever
man, this is crazy! Players can just decide to retire and then the team is still stuck with their salary for the cap. Wow!

Still, if Niewy decides to retire, the cats won't have to really pay the salary, so they have the money to spend as long as they are not next to the cap.

Hey that's the risk a team takes for signing a veteran over 35 to a long term deal. Look at NJ who will be taking a cap hit of $7 mill next season for Mogilny & Malakhov. They learned the hard way as well and will have cap issues now for next season. But now you won't find any players over 35 get more than 1 yr deals...probably for the rest of this CBA I bet.

Sure they don't have to pay the salary but it could impact how they can spend in the summer. First and foremost, if he retires, you need someone to replace him with. Let's just say that'll cost about the same as what Niewy would've gotten...$2.25 mil. That's less money in the supposed $10 million pool that Cohen was going to up spending on the team to upgrade the defense like so many of you want.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbar
Yeah I was referring to the latter.

But now what do you think if he retires with what I've brought attention to? Do you really think he was worth $4.5 million of cap space for just 1 season of play if he retires (heck he didn't even play the whole season)?

angry_treefrog 05-04-2006 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKF37
....i'm a season ticket holder and i have no clue what you're talking about. he finished the season awfully strong. 15 points in 9 games in the month of april with 7 of those being goals.

As I said, he had some nice moments. This is what you'd expect from a talented guy who is playing hurt. He didn't seem like the same player I saw earlier in the season though.

Happy Girl 05-04-2006 07:01 AM

Joe played some amazing hockey at the end of the season and single handedly won us a few of those games. He played great after the olympic break - I fail to see how that qualifies as a few nice moments. The bottom line is that when he was out of the lineup we lost. When he was in it we were winning more. And as far as the contract and "over spending" on a 35+ year old player, yeah it is quite surprising given Florida's outstanding ability at attracting free agents and it's strong hockey market. Gee all of the best UFAs want to play for Mike Keenan. Yay! Any player of any age can get injured and miss part of the season like Horton and Olesz.

Besides, this whole thread is based on the last line of Garrioch's article. You would think if Toronto native and former Maple Leaf Joe Nieuwendyk was retiring, TSN or one of the Toronto based outlets would be all over it. I know at least Dallas would. So really until Joe announces his retirement this much ado about nothing.

I would take the time to look up stats and etc... but I am late for work.

RedHotChiliPanthers 05-04-2006 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn
Sure they don't have to pay the salary but it could impact how they can spend in the summer. First and foremost, if he retires, you need someone to replace him with. Let's just say that'll cost about the same as what Niewy would've gotten...$2.25 mil. That's less money in the supposed $10 million pool that Cohen was going to up spending on the team to upgrade the defense like so many of you want.

If Niewy retires the $10 million pool would become a $12.25 million pool :teach: I'm sure that the $10 million pool that Cohen promised is in real spending.

Clash* 05-04-2006 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupFever
If Niewy retires the $10 million pool would become a $12.25 million pool :teach: I'm sure that the $10 million pool that Cohen promised is in real spending.

Spending is in payroll, now cap figure. So that $10 million doesn't go up. It becomes $7.5 mil if they look to replace Joe. Just like they say every year they have $10 million to spend on free agents, except they don't tell you that figure includes the money spent on resigning their own. Cohen was already pissed about the contract terms given to Roberts and Nieuwendyk. Joe retiring a year ahead of time just makes things worse.

wint 05-04-2006 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn
Do you really think he was worth $4.5 million of cap space for just 1 season of play if he retires (heck he didn't even play the whole season)?

Cap space is irrelevant. Even if the Panthers spend what they say they will next year, they should be well below the cap.

Crossbar 05-04-2006 02:25 PM

With the cap expected to rise some where between $43-46 million for next season, the Panthers will still be in good shape if Joe retires (which still remains to be seen). It would only go against the cap for 1-year, so it's not too big of a deal. Cohen wasn't going to spend up to the cap anyway, so that's probably $2.25 million going torwards someone's extended/long-term contract.

Nieuwy25 05-04-2006 03:49 PM

I emailed the hockey writer for the Dallas Morning News to see if he's heard anything about this.


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