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Artyukhin* 05-05-2006 01:55 AM

restricted free agents "group II" get ready
 
i think this season espicallly your going to start to see alot of gm's taking a run at other teams "group II" restricted free agents
who arent under contract ....


sure there some " unrestricted guys" on the market free and clear of compensation but its the group II guys i say we take a run at !!!!

for instance Patrice Bergeron (II) salary: $646,000

what would you offer him ?

we would have to offer draft picks no more thqan a 1 and 3 rounder but the bruins would have to match our offer . :D intresting senerio isnt it ?

on the other hand if anyone try to " hijack ryder" for instance the least wed get is a 2nd rounder if we'd didint match there offer...


its goona be intresting i really belive it .....







According to the CBA, if a Group II free agent signs an offer sheet from another team, the team that owns his rights has the option of matching the offer or receiving compensation in the form of draft picks from the new team. If the original team chooses not to match, it will receive draft picks in return, based on the average annual value of the deal:

$660,000 or below: no compensation


Over $660,000 to $1 million: third round pick

Over $1 million to $2 million: second round pick

Over $2 million to $3 million: first and third round picks

Over $3 million to $4 million: first, second and third round picks

Over $4 million to $5 million: two first rounders, one second and one third rounder

Over $5 million: four first rounders







Restricted Free Agents

* Players who are no longer consider "entry-level" but do not qualify as unrestricted free agents become restricted free agents when their contracts expire.

* A team must extend a "qualifying offer" to its restricted free agent to retain negotiating rights to that player. Players making less than $660,000 must be offered 110 percent of last season's salary.


Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent. Under the previous deal, qualifying offers had to be at least 100 percent of the previous year's salary, with 10 percent raises due to many players.

* Restricted free agents must sign NHL contracts by December 1, or they are not eligible to play for the rest of the season.

* Both teams and players have the right to ask for salary arbitration as a mechanism to settle contract disputes. A team can take a player to arbitration once in his career, and cannot ask for a salary reduction greater than 15 percent. Players can ask for salary arbitration as often as they want. Only players had the right to request salary arbitration under the old CBA.


Group II (restricted; original team has right to match or accept draft-pick compensation);

- Group III (unrestricted; original team has no right to match)

- Group IV (restricted; players who have never signed a contract and are considered defected players)

- Group V (unrestricted; a player who has played in 11 professional games in each of the last 10 years, and makes less than the average salary of $1.312 million can declare for unrestricted free agency once in his career)

- Group VI (unrestricted; a player who is 25 years or older, has completed three or more professional seasons and in the case of a player other than a goaltender has played fewer than 80 NHL games, or in the case of a goaltender has played fewer than 28 NHL games).

- UFA (Unrestricted; a player who has played in at least 8 professional seasons, or a player who has been released from their current contract by a buyout, a 2/3 of remaining salary option all teams carry with all contracts, or Group II restricted free agents not offered a contract by their teams become Group III unrestricted free agents.)

Rather Gingerly 1* 05-05-2006 02:06 AM

Offer Bergeron 3 million. I would give up a 1st andn 3rd for Bergeron. Put some heat on the cheap B's
Quote:

Originally Posted by doug mckenzie
i think this season espicallly your going to start to see alot of gm's taking a run at other teams "group II" restricted free agents
who arent under contract ....


sure there some " unrestricted guys" on the market free and clear of compensation but its the group II guys i say we take a run at !!!!

for instance Patrice Bergeron (II) salary: $646,000

we wouldnt have to offer any draft picks but the bruins would have to match our offer . :D intresting senerio isnt it ?

on the other hand if anyone try to " hijack ryder" for instance we'd get a 2nd rounder if we'd didint match there offer...


its goona be intresting i really belive it .....







According to the CBA, if a Group II free agent signs an offer sheet from another team, the team that owns his rights has the option of matching the offer or receiving compensation in the form of draft picks from the new team. If the original team chooses not to match, it will receive draft picks in return, based on the average annual value of the deal:

$660,000 or below: no compensation


Over $660,000 to $1 million: third round pick

Over $1 million to $2 million: second round pick

Over $2 million to $3 million: first and third round picks

Over $3 million to $4 million: first, second and third round picks

Over $4 million to $5 million: two first rounders, one second and one third rounder

Over $5 million: four first rounders







Restricted Free Agents

* Players who are no longer consider "entry-level" but do not qualify as unrestricted free agents become restricted free agents when their contracts expire.

* A team must extend a "qualifying offer" to its restricted free agent to retain negotiating rights to that player. Players making less than $660,000 must be offered 110 percent of last season's salary.


Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent. Under the previous deal, qualifying offers had to be at least 100 percent of the previous year's salary, with 10 percent raises due to many players.

* Restricted free agents must sign NHL contracts by December 1, or they are not eligible to play for the rest of the season.

* Both teams and players have the right to ask for salary arbitration as a mechanism to settle contract disputes. A team can take a player to arbitration once in his career, and cannot ask for a salary reduction greater than 15 percent. Players can ask for salary arbitration as often as they want. Only players had the right to request salary arbitration under the old CBA.


Artyukhin* 05-05-2006 02:13 AM

Bryan Allen from vancouver

6'4
Weight: 220 lbs.

just the kind of big guy we need back there

last year Salary: $941,441

needs a contract this year ....group II

i think i could give up a second rounder for him with out even blinking !! :D

NewHabsEra* 05-05-2006 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
Offer Bergeron 3 million. I would give up a 1st andn 3rd for Bergeron. Put some heat on the cheap B's

You probably didnt hear his comments when drafted... He commented about not being drafted by the Habs... that he didnt care about the Habs, that he has always been a Nordique fan anyway...

Artyukhin* 05-05-2006 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
You probably didnt hear his comments when drafted... He commented about not being drafted by the Habs... that he didnt care about the Habs, that he has always been a Nordique fan anyway...


right well i was just using bergeron as a example . you know someone is going to try to pick him off .

daniel breire is up for grabs to as a group II
would take a 1 and a 3 for him also id

Simon Gagne group II


Maxim Afinogenov ufa isnt he?



i mean technically the habs could take hainsey back from columbus is they wanted him and only have to give up probally a 3 rd pick .. or less ... :D

not sayin there going to do that not even suggesting it .. but you see what is possible

big allen outta vancvouer now thats a guy id love to have on this team

Clumsyhab 05-05-2006 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
You probably didnt hear his comments when drafted... He commented about not being drafted by the Habs... that he didnt care about the Habs, that he has always been a Nordique fan anyway...

I love that kid and love him even more with those comments for some reason. Bergeron and Crosby with the Habs in 2012 :yo:

NewHabsEra* 05-05-2006 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug mckenzie
right well i was just using bergeron as a example . you know someone is going to try to pick him off .

daniel breire is up for grabs to as a group II
would take a 1 and a 3 for him also id think


Maxim Afinogenov -1 and a 3 for him also id think



i mean technically the habs could take hainsey back from columbus is they wanted him and only have to give up probally a 3 rd pick .. or less ... :D

not sayin there going to do that not even suggesting it .. but you see what is possible

big allen outta vancvouer now thats a guy id love to have on this team

Personally I think we need 1 impact player at the blueline, an elite puckmover able to handle the job on the PP... Redden would be great... I dont want a #3,#4,#5,#6,#7 defenseman, I think we are quite fine with the group of defensemans in place.. Replace Souray by Redden and package Souray in a deal to improve up front...

Up front well.. I dont want to come back on the Ribeiro case again but we need to replace him with better material... Among the RFA avalaible my pick would be Richards... Add a big PF on the wings and we are easily a top contender team. I dont think we have the money to acquire Redden Richards and a Bertuzzi or a Shanahan though.. Kovalev would have to quit... Kovalev for Bertuzzi straight up? :innocent:

Kovalev + Souray + Théo + Abiescher gone = 14 million saved

Redden = 6 millions Bertuzzi = 5 millions Richards would cost us about 4,5 millions = 15.5

Higgins Koivu Bertuzzi

Kostitsyn Richards Ryder

Perezhogin Plekanec Zednik

Begin Bonk Murray

extra:Ferland

Rivet Redden

Komisarek Markov

Bouillon Dandy

extra:Coté

Huet
Danis

:yo:

Artyukhin* 05-05-2006 03:48 AM

ok here is mine
.


gone are ribs , zed, sunny , bonk .bulis



in are

Tuomo Ruutu

Brain Allen for a 2nd rounder

Marty Reasoner ufa from boston



to start the season .......


Higgins Koivu Kosty

Latendresse Ruutu Kovelev

Perezhogin Plekanec Ryder

Begin Reasoner Murray




Markov
Komisarek
Rivet
Allen
Bouillon
Souray
Dandy



Huet
and who ever


is Perezhogin coming back next season or stay over sea's? isnt that the rumour?

NewHabsEra* 05-05-2006 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug mckenzie



is Perezhogin coming back next season or stay over sea's? isnt that the rumour?

The rumor started about the time where Perezhogin was sent down... His confidence was quite down and he looked lost out there... With the playoffs he had he will be back be sure.

Hackett 05-05-2006 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug mckenzie
i think this season espicallly your going to start to see alot of gm's taking a run at other teams "group II" restricted free agents
who arent under contract ....


sure there some " unrestricted guys" on the market free and clear of compensation but its the group II guys i say we take a run at !!!!

for instance Patrice Bergeron (II) salary: $646,000

what would you offer him ?

we would have to offer draft picks no more thqan a 1 and 3 rounder but the bruins would have to match our offer . :D intresting senerio isnt it ?

on the other hand if anyone try to " hijack ryder" for instance the least wed get is a 2nd rounder if we'd didint match there offer...


its goona be intresting i really belive it .....







According to the CBA, if a Group II free agent signs an offer sheet from another team, the team that owns his rights has the option of matching the offer or receiving compensation in the form of draft picks from the new team. If the original team chooses not to match, it will receive draft picks in return, based on the average annual value of the deal:

$660,000 or below: no compensation


Over $660,000 to $1 million: third round pick

Over $1 million to $2 million: second round pick

Over $2 million to $3 million: first and third round picks

Over $3 million to $4 million: first, second and third round picks

Over $4 million to $5 million: two first rounders, one second and one third rounder

Over $5 million: four first rounders







Restricted Free Agents

* Players who are no longer consider "entry-level" but do not qualify as unrestricted free agents become restricted free agents when their contracts expire.

* A team must extend a "qualifying offer" to its restricted free agent to retain negotiating rights to that player. Players making less than $660,000 must be offered 110 percent of last season's salary.


Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent. Under the previous deal, qualifying offers had to be at least 100 percent of the previous year's salary, with 10 percent raises due to many players.

* Restricted free agents must sign NHL contracts by December 1, or they are not eligible to play for the rest of the season.

* Both teams and players have the right to ask for salary arbitration as a mechanism to settle contract disputes. A team can take a player to arbitration once in his career, and cannot ask for a salary reduction greater than 15 percent. Players can ask for salary arbitration as often as they want. Only players had the right to request salary arbitration under the old CBA.


Group II (restricted; original team has right to match or accept draft-pick compensation);

- Group III (unrestricted; original team has no right to match)

- Group IV (restricted; players who have never signed a contract and are considered defected players)

- Group V (unrestricted; a player who has played in 11 professional games in each of the last 10 years, and makes less than the average salary of $1.312 million can declare for unrestricted free agency once in his career)

- Group VI (unrestricted; a player who is 25 years or older, has completed three or more professional seasons and in the case of a player other than a goaltender has played fewer than 80 NHL games, or in the case of a goaltender has played fewer than 28 NHL games).

- UFA (Unrestricted; a player who has played in at least 8 professional seasons, or a player who has been released from their current contract by a buyout, a 2/3 of remaining salary option all teams carry with all contracts, or Group II restricted free agents not offered a contract by their teams become Group III unrestricted free agents.)

I'm just curious, what makes you think that this year will be different than any other year in terms of offer sheets given to group 2's?

Its been many many years since a group 2 offer was given to a player and we have yet to see teams not matching those offer sheets.

Off the top of my head, the only group 2 offer sheets given that I can remember since the CBA implemented this in 1995 were for the following players:

Toronto offered for ohlund (Vancouver Matched)

Carolina offered for Fedorov (Detroit Matched)

Rangers offered for Sakic (Avs matched)

All these offers were made in the 90's. You never see these offers anymore.


I might be missing some names but its historically extremly rare for a team to go after a group 2 guy and I cant even remeber a time when the team holding the rights didn't match the offer.

I dont see how this year is going to be any different.

Blind Gardien 05-05-2006 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackett
I dont see how this year is going to be any different.

The only difference I would expect is that with the cap in, now teams might be less likely to qualify some of their Group II's, and those guys will then become unrestricted. So you might get more guys being available through this.

But I agree... can't see why teams would suddenly start making more offers for restricted free agents. The compensation is down, but then, there are also lower ages for unrestricted free agency. So the guy you might think of giving up some picks to sign today may become unrestricted in a couple of years anyway. So either you can get him later for no compensation, or if you did get him you'd be at risk to lose him earlier. And then there are more alternative options every year on the unrestricted market anyway, so why give up any compensation at all?

I'm sure the armchair GMs will start off having lots of fun trying to imagine RFAs to sign, but I will be shocked if anything actually happens.
:dunno:

predz 05-05-2006 10:17 AM

Well, some teams might now have more trouble matching an offer because of the room cap available (ex: Brad Richards)

Legolas 05-05-2006 10:30 AM

The compensation for Group II's in the new CBA is completely different...that's why.

But I don't think you'll see a ton of changes though...I think most GM's are still pretty old school that they won't want to piss each other off by picking off Group II's. On top of that, Gainey is not the guy who will start the ball rolling.

felixd 05-05-2006 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legolas
The compensation for Group II's in the new CBA is completely different...that's why.

But I don't think you'll see a ton of changes though...I think most GM's are still pretty old school that they won't want to piss each other off by picking off Group II's. On top of that, Gainey is not the guy who will start the ball rolling.

Yep. Essentially by "stealing" a player from another GM, it creates animosity, and you never want that with a GM, because of future negotiations. I doubt we'll see it.

toshiro 05-05-2006 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felixd
Yep. Essentially by "stealing" a player from another GM, it creates animosity, and you never want that with a GM, because of future negotiations. I doubt we'll see it.

It is a competition. You are there to screw the competition. Sign Bergeron to 5 million a year.

Artyukhin* 05-05-2006 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felixd
Yep. Essentially by "stealing" a player from another GM, it creates animosity, and you never want that with a GM, because of future negotiations. I doubt we'll see it.


its the " new nhl"

you'll see what's goona happen .....

Artyukhin* 05-05-2006 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legolas
The compensation for Group II's in the new CBA is completely different...that's why.

But I don't think you'll see a ton of changes though...I think most GM's are still pretty old school that they won't want to piss each other off by picking off Group II's. On top of that, Gainey is not the guy who will start the ball rolling.


it will only take the 1 guy... then flood gates will open ....


if you can " steal " a potentail high calibre player such as ruttuu from the blackhawks or allen from vancouver for a 2 round draft pick you dam well take a run at them now .......



why because in the last cba any player over

Over $1,208,554 - $1,487,452: cost you a First-round choice.



in the new cba they only cost you a 2 rounder

Over $1 million to $2 million: second round pick








2004


Draft choice compensation for signing Group II restricted free agents:

Offer: $743,725 or below; compensation: none.

Over $743,725 - $1,022,622: Third-round choice.

Over $1,022,622 - $1,208,554: Second-round choice.

Over $1,208,554 - $1,487,452: First-round choice.

Over $1,487,452 - $1,859,312: First and third-round choices.

Over $1,859,312 - $2,231,175: First and second-round choices.

Over $2,231,175 - $2,603,038: Two first-round choices.

Over $2,603,038 - $3,160,831: Two first-round and one second-round choice.

Over $3,160,831: Three first-round choices.

Each additional $1,859,312: One additional first-round choice to a maximum of five.

If a team were to offer $8 million a year to a Group II restricted free agent, and the player's 2003-2004 team does not match within seven days, the 2003-2004 team would receive five first-round draft picks as compensation.




vs


2005 new cba


$660,000 or below: no compensation


Over $660,000 to $1 million: third round pick

Over $1 million to $2 million: second round pick

Over $2 million to $3 million: first and third round picks

Over $3 million to $4 million: first, second and third round picks

Over $4 million to $5 million: two first rounders, one second and one third rounder

Over $5 million: four first rounders

felixd 05-05-2006 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toshiro
It is a competition. You are there to screw the competition. Sign Bergeron to 5 million a year.

It is a competition, but there is still a "code of honor". The NHL is just a big "old boys network".

I doubt it'll happen, but we'll see.

And, 5 million for Bergeron is way too much.

Le Tricolore 05-05-2006 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
You probably didnt hear his comments when drafted... He commented about not being drafted by the Habs... that he didnt care about the Habs, that he has always been a Nordique fan anyway...

yeah, he hates the Habs. He's my friend's friend's brother.

Le Tricolore 05-05-2006 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toshiro
It is a competition. You are there to screw the competition. Sign Bergeron to 5 million a year.

four first round picks for Bergeron? Plus 5 million on the cap? Not a chance...

Habber 05-05-2006 07:45 PM

I still haven't seen a reason why Group II's are going to be switching teams.

If you make a fair offer to a RFA, it will be matched. If you make a ridiculous offer, and the team doesn't match you're stuck with a bad contract and a guy who can walk in a couple years. Doesn't make sense.

I can't see any GM's wasting their time with stuff like this.

Artyukhin* 05-06-2006 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habber
I still haven't seen a reason why Group II's are going to be switching teams.

If you make a fair offer to a RFA, it will be matched. If you make a ridiculous offer, and the team doesn't match you're stuck with a bad contract and a guy who can walk in a couple years. Doesn't make sense.

I can't see any GM's wasting their time with stuff like this.


2 words and it called the

"salray cap "

im telling you it goona happen. before the teams would have to match what ever the other team offered and do so reculantly " federov" comes to mind


now in the " new nhl" the teams still have to match but " salry cap" comes into play


now you have a cap and the compenstation for " stealing players" is lower... so what happens with a team is 2 million from the cap and you walk in and offer 3 million to one of there group 2 free agents ..there screwed...

its goona happen .. the taboo " i wont steal your player" days was out of resepct as to not drive up the other team payroll . now with the cap in place many teams are going to be suprised and stuck with losing some group 2 guys


wait and see

Hackett 05-06-2006 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
The only difference I would expect is that with the cap in, now teams might be less likely to qualify some of their Group II's, and those guys will then become unrestricted. So you might get more guys being available through this.

But I agree... can't see why teams would suddenly start making more offers for restricted free agents. The compensation is down, but then, there are also lower ages for unrestricted free agency. So the guy you might think of giving up some picks to sign today may become unrestricted in a couple of years anyway. So either you can get him later for no compensation, or if you did get him you'd be at risk to lose him earlier. And then there are more alternative options every year on the unrestricted market anyway, so why give up any compensation at all?

I'm sure the armchair GMs will start off having lots of fun trying to imagine RFAs to sign, but I will be shocked if anything actually happens.
:dunno:

I agree with your points.

Even if some teams want to go after a certain group 2 player. They will probably request the other team to sign him first so that they can make a deal with their own preferred compensations.

Basically like the sign and trde deals you see in the NBA.

les Habs 05-06-2006 11:11 PM

I'd go for Bergeron. I wouldn't offer too much though. Still would love to have him.

greatlakeshab 05-06-2006 11:26 PM

Offer Bergeron 3, 3.25, 3.5, 3.5, 3.75 over five years. This would burn the Bruins. Gainey probably wouldn't do it but it would be funny if another team does :biglaugh:


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