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-   -   Would Peca come back? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=24958)

Ghost of Dale Hunter 11-02-2003 02:37 PM

Would Peca come back?
 
Would he come back now that rigas is gone. I am wondering if maybe he buys the Regier, I am just doing what i am told to do line after seeing how Rigas really operates.

I think with the Isles cost cutting upon them, Buffalo could really make an impact move here.

Afinogenov, Brown, Novotny,Boulton
for
Peca, Cairns

I could see this move being approved financially by Golisano just for the box office impact.

Darth Milbury 11-02-2003 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost of Dale Hunter
Would he come back now that rigas is gone. I am wondering if maybe he buys the Regier, I am just doing what i am told to do line after seeing how Rigas really operates.

I think with the Isles cost cutting upon them, Buffalo could really make an impact move here.

Afinogenov, Brown, Novotny,Boulton
for
Peca, Cairns

I could see this move being approved financially by Golisano just for the box office impact.


First of all, the notion that the Isles are about to go on some cost cutting binge hasn't got a whole lot of evidence in support of it. There has been some SPECULATION in the media, but the Isles have shown no interest in making any moves. Both the owner and our evil GM have said Peca is going nowhere and Peca himself confirmed that he has been told that he will not be moved.

Second, if the Isles do decide to cutt payroll, Hamrlik and Parrish will be moved before Peca.

Third, you basically offered only player that would actually be of interest to the Isles. Brown is no better than Scatchard or Bates (and, IMO, not as good as either). Afinogenov adds nothing. Boulton is inferior to Wiemer. This is just a collection of spare parts and players the Sabres would like to move.

I can't say I know much about Novotny, but I assume he is a talented young prospect.

If the Isles were willing to deal Peca, which I seriously doubt, the deal would have to involve somebody the Isles actually want, not a handful of third line forwards .

BTW, if you add up the numbers, my guess is your deal is even't saving the Isles a whole lot of $. Peca will make 4.25 million this year. I'm willing to bet that you've added close to that to the Isles payroll.

TehDoak 11-02-2003 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury

BTW, if you add up the numbers, my guess is your deal is even't saving the Isles a whole lot of $. Peca will make 4.25 million this year. I'm willing to bet that you've added close to that to the Isles payroll.

Somewhat close: Afingoenov (1.4) + Brown (1.6)= 3.0.
Then Boutlon+Novotny<1 million total (don't know the exact numbers)

But i tend to agree with you, that the Isles have a few more players that will be dealt before Peca goes. Most of the things floating around that the Isles need to cut salary have been speculation, spectualtion grounded in reality, but speculation none the less. If there is any salary dumping, my guess it would be to rid themselves of Hamirlik and a few others before Peca goes, unless they were wowed by an offer (very one sided NYIs way), which the proposed deal does not do. Even if Peca was available, this is Drury's team now, IMHO. What does Peca bring that Drury doesnt? Drury is better offensivly, cheaper, more a clutch goal scorer. Peca IS a great shutdown forward and a great leader, but is he THAT much better than Drury?

djhn579 11-02-2003 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdoak
Somewhat close: Afingoenov (1.4) + Brown (1.6)= 3.0.
Then Boutlon+Novotny<1 million total (don't know the exact numbers)

But i tend to agree with you, that the Isles have a few more players that will be dealt before Peca goes. Most of the things floating around that the Isles need to cut salary have been speculation, spectualtion grounded in reality, but speculation none the less. If there is any salary dumping, my guess it would be to rid themselves of Hamirlik and a few others before Peca goes, unless they were wowed by an offer (very one sided NYIs way), which the proposed deal does not do. Even if Peca was available, this is Drury's team now, IMHO. What does Peca bring that Drury doesnt? Drury is better offensivly, cheaper, more a clutch goal scorer. Peca IS a great shutdown forward and a great leader, but is he THAT much better than Drury?

Great points. I was thinking that this deal gave up a lot of potential, but wouldn't help us a hell of a lot, and could potentially be disruptive if it was true that the locker room was divided when he was here last time.

buffalowing 11-02-2003 06:06 PM

I'd still rather have Pyatt and Connolly.... Peca is getting old and that little body of his is starting to fall apart.

Chainshot 11-02-2003 06:58 PM

Peca, like Nolan, will not be coming back.

Chainshot 11-02-2003 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTL
I wouldn't mind Owen Nolan. :p

Why, have you got a lot of stock in Grecian Formula? :P

Owen's a bit worn out and worn down. His best years are past and there remains the concerns about him and his injuries--be they real or phantom.

Chainshot 11-02-2003 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTL
Sarcasm chain...although he was born in Ireland :handclap:

Is your Jameson detector broken? Do you need to import one? :p

Darth Milbury 11-03-2003 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdoak
Somewhat close: Afingoenov (1.4) + Brown (1.6)= 3.0.
Then Boutlon+Novotny<1 million total (don't know the exact numbers)

But i tend to agree with you, that the Isles have a few more players that will be dealt before Peca goes. Most of the things floating around that the Isles need to cut salary have been speculation, spectualtion grounded in reality, but speculation none the less. If there is any salary dumping, my guess it would be to rid themselves of Hamirlik and a few others before Peca goes, unless they were wowed by an offer (very one sided NYIs way), which the proposed deal does not do. Even if Peca was available, this is Drury's team now, IMHO. What does Peca bring that Drury doesnt? Drury is better offensivly, cheaper, more a clutch goal scorer. Peca IS a great shutdown forward and a great leader, but is he THAT much better than Drury?


Peca make 4.25 million. If Novotny gets any sort of signing bonus at all, the deal adds payroll - not deletes it.

What does Peca add that Drury doesn't? I'm not sure. They're different sorts of players. But, I agree that Drury is a very capable player.

Darth Milbury 11-03-2003 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalowing
I'd still rather have Pyatt and Connolly.... Peca is getting old and that little body of his is starting to fall apart.

Not sure that I agree that Peca is "falling apart." To me, he basically looks like the player he was in his best years in Buffalo. Very physical, excellent defensively, but mediocre offensive skills.

But, that said, I think Pyatt will be a stud and I still think Connolly will develop. I am one of the few Islander fans who did not like this deal from the start.

SuperNintendoChalmrs 11-03-2003 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chainshot
Peca, like Nolan, will not be coming back.

Thank you.....I get tired of reading about the nostalgia angle.....I don't see any Stanley Cup titles in this team's history.....move forward, not backward. And no.....picklekid can stay on Long Island. After a year's holdout, someone would actually consider trading for him? What's past is past....move on.

:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

Darth Milbury 11-03-2003 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs
Thank you.....I get tired of reading about the nostalgia angle.....I don't see any Stanley Cup titles in this team's history.....move forward, not backward. And no.....picklekid can stay on Long Island. After a year's holdout, someone would actually consider trading for him? What's past is past....move on.

:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

Another side of this: Buffalo is absolutely loaded with top notch young talent. There is a good reason to look forward because the future for the Sabres is quite bright.

Ghost of Dale Hunter 11-03-2003 10:23 AM

I'd say the only reason you would make this deal is to make a statement to the fans that you are dead serious about winning.

Lets be honest, short of bringing Nolan back, the Peca deal, though it is starting to look far better the way Pyatt is playing now, signifies everything that was wrong with the Sabres under Regis. am simply thinking more from a put the butts in the seats perspective.

I can think of a lot of players that Buffalo could bring in for Hockey reasons that fit far better than Peca and i am sure you all can too.

Good debate though.

Tiki 11-03-2003 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Not sure that I agree that Peca is "falling apart." To me, he basically looks like the player he was in his best years in Buffalo. Very physical, excellent defensively, but mediocre offensive skills.

But, that said, I think Pyatt will be a stud and I still think Connolly will develop. I am one of the few Islander fans who did not like this deal from the start.

Darth, I have to disagree with you about this one (again). As a Sabres Tix holder and a Islesfan I cuold not have been more thrilled at that trade. Peca is exactly the type of player the Isles needed then and now. A very good defensive player and good offensively.

Connolly has always been a favorite of mine and Pyatt is looking to come on, but the the Isles badly needed a vet of his caliber back then. This was a good trade for both teams IMO. For some reason the teams fans feel the need to put the spin of a "winner" on the deal, but in reality both teams go what they hoped for out of it.

-Tiki

Darth Milbury 11-03-2003 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiki
Darth, I have to disagree with you about this one (again). As a Sabres Tix holder and a Islesfan I cuold not have been more thrilled at that trade. Peca is exactly the type of player the Isles needed then and now. A very good defensive player and good offensively.

Connolly has always been a favorite of mine and Pyatt is looking to come on, but the the Isles badly needed a vet of his caliber back then. This was a good trade for both teams IMO. For some reason the teams fans feel the need to put the spin of a "winner" on the deal, but in reality both teams go what they hoped for out of it.

-Tiki


I understand your reasoning, and can't fault it. I just don't agree. I think teams that win build around a core of young talent. That is how the AVs and SENS became winners. The Isles strategy, trading youth for vets, is the road to being a .500 team for a short period, followed by collapse when your vets reach UFA status or go into decline.

Chainshot 11-03-2003 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiki
Darth, I have to disagree with you about this one (again). As a Sabres Tix holder and a Islesfan I cuold not have been more thrilled at that trade. Peca is exactly the type of player the Isles needed then and now. A very good defensive player and good offensively.

Connolly has always been a favorite of mine and Pyatt is looking to come on, but the the Isles badly needed a vet of his caliber back then. This was a good trade for both teams IMO. For some reason the teams fans feel the need to put the spin of a "winner" on the deal, but in reality both teams go what they hoped for out of it.

-Tiki

Exactly. One did well in acquiring the leader it wanted to move forward, the other did well in acquiring youngsters with high upside. The Isles went to the playoffs, as desired, the Sabres have had to wait for the talent to develop but as Pyatt continues to improve the deal looks pretty good for both teams. Throw Connolly in as a wildcard in the equation, since his early production was evident as a loss for the Isles and a gain for the Sabres yet his disappearence is almost embraced by frustrated Buffalo fans as a good thing---despite what he did in his first season.

I think a lot of people view the deal as linear, that it tips from one side to the other as though that was unsuspected, when it was probable and likely that Buffalo would look good out of the deal in 4-6 years while the Isles got <i>exactly</i> what they wanted in the immediate. Since both got what they wanted... it's a win-win.

But there's no strife in both sides getting what they want. ;)

SuperNintendoChalmrs 11-03-2003 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Another side of this: Buffalo is absolutely loaded with top notch young talent. There is a good reason to look forward because the future for the Sabres is quite bright.

The Sabres look to be in pretty good shape.....Derek Roy is adjusting well to AHL play, Jason Pominville is beginning to breakout some.....Paul Gaustad looks solid.....some kid named Miller is tending net in Rochester. I'm content with the way things are, and where they may be headed.....I just can't figure Buffalo fans sometimes, and why many attempt to reach back to the past to set the future course.....

There's still calls for Ted Nolan.....when do people decide to finally let go???

:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

LALALALALALAFONTAINE 11-04-2003 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Peca make 4.25 million. If Novotny gets any sort of signing bonus at all, the deal adds payroll - not deletes it.

What does Peca add that Drury doesn't? I'm not sure. They're different sorts of players. But, I agree that Drury is a very capable player.

Peca's better defensively, and can occasionally add a physical presence. He's much different than Drury.

Novotny's already signed and playing in Rochester. His bonus has been paid.

My mind tells me that Peca should not be reacquired, because:
1. He makes too much for what he brings to the table
2. He's small and injury prone, and his style of play will make this worse as time goes on.

Still, I would love to see Peca here. It all depends who we would have to give up.

Darth Milbury 11-04-2003 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Peca's better defensively, and can occasionally add a physical presence. He's much different than Drury.

Novotny's already signed and playing in Rochester. His bonus has been paid.

My mind tells me that Peca should not be reacquired, because:
1. He makes too much for what he brings to the table
2. He's small and injury prone, and his style of play will make this worse as time goes on.

Still, I would love to see Peca here. It all depends who we would have to give up.


His bonus is paid, but not the incentives.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE 11-04-2003 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
His bonus is paid, but not the incentives.

Novotny's going to be in the AHL for a couple of years. I don't see how he's going to get rich on incentives in the near future.

Takeo 11-05-2003 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs
The Sabres look to be in pretty good shape.....Derek Roy is adjusting well to AHL play, Jason Pominville is beginning to breakout some.....Paul Gaustad looks solid.....some kid named Miller is tending net in Rochester. I'm content with the way things are, and where they may be headed.....

Wish you coulda listed a couple d-men... :(

WhoIsJimBob 11-05-2003 04:17 AM

I'm still bitter that they took Jan Hejda over Corey Locke and he's not in Rochester this year.

disles1 11-05-2003 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I understand your reasoning, and can't fault it. I just don't agree. I think teams that win build around a core of young talent. That is how the AVs and SENS became winners. The Isles strategy, trading youth for vets, is the road to being a .500 team for a short period, followed by collapse when your vets reach UFA status or go into decline.

Hold on Darth --the isles traded away their youth for vets in their mid to late 20's not late 30's come on. Peca is only 29 and will just be entering his prime 28-33 so lets hold on here. Peca is signed for 3 more years so I don't see a "collapse" for some time now. I mean Messier is still playing and he is 42 for c--sakes. Peca and most of the team for that matter are just starting to enter their prime. The trade was a good and fair trade for both sides--I would do it again.

LALALALALALAFONTAINE 11-06-2003 05:35 AM

Players enter their prime for the most part at 27. Not everyone is a Mark Messier. I don't foresee Peca playing at 42.


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