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-   -   What is Kovalev's worth? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=256087)

sXe 05-30-2006 07:39 PM

What is Kovalev's worth?
 
Posted this on the main boards but wanted an unbalanced opinion from Habs fan.

Kovalev's value in a trade. Not if, not why, not for who, this is hypothetical. I'm just a curious guy, I don't really have the power to trade him.

Habsaku 05-30-2006 07:42 PM

Three cookies and probably either a decent prospect and a pick or an established talent who's production and salary is similar to his. Palffy at the start of the year for example or Demitra.

sXe 05-30-2006 07:58 PM

They better be some damn good cookies.

Shabutie 05-30-2006 08:04 PM

I'm definitely not Kovalev's biggest fan, but I don't think the guy should be traded cuz his value isn't the greatest. Imo he'd get us a decent prospect but not much more.

KaptainKourage* 05-30-2006 08:08 PM

Jozef Balej :sarcasm:

Habs13 05-30-2006 08:12 PM

He's worth more playing for us then on the market, imo.

Teufelsdreck 05-30-2006 08:25 PM

All Kovalev did is score the most playoff goals for the Habs in '04 and '06. If only he took lessons from Ribeiro and learned how not to score, then all his critics would love him.

Shabutie 05-30-2006 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
All Kovalev did is score the most playoff goals for the Habs in '04 and '06. If only he took lessons from Ribeiro and learned how not to score, then all his critics would love him.

In the other thread, you mentioned how you hate threads that bash players. So why do you make such a comment? He asked a simple question, which wasn't meant to bash Kovalev it was simply to know how we had him valued.

Habsaku 05-30-2006 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
All Kovalev did is score the most playoff goals for the Habs in '04 and '06. If only he took lessons from Ribeiro and learned how not to score, then all his critics would love him.

I agree with Shabutie, but will say that this comment made me laugh.

Teufelsdreck 05-30-2006 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie
In the other thread, you mentioned how you hate threads that bash players. So why do you make such a comment? He asked a simple question, which wasn't meant to bash Kovalev it was simply to know how we had him valued.

I was answering your post, although obliquely. You say Kovalev has little value elsewhere, but you fail to apprecioate his value to the Habs. He can score in the playoffs, and the Habs don't have anyone else who does. I say he's saddled with linemates who are no help to him. Put him with a great center, and your eyes would open wide.

Shabutie 05-30-2006 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
I was answering your post, although obliquely. You say Kovalev has little value elsewhere, but you fail to apprecioate his value to the Habs. He can score in the playoffs, and the Habs don't have anyone else who does. I say he's saddled with linemates who are no help to him. Put him with a great center, and your eyes would open wide.

I do bash him on occasion, only cuz I know that he's our best player, and some nights doesn't play like it. I don't think putting him with a great center would make him far better. He was nearly a PPG player, and admitely said that he was happy with Ribs as his center. I don't think they're a great match together, cuz they both like to carry the puck, and 1 has little scoring touch (ribs). Anywho, as I was saying, Kovalev has more value on the team, than he would fetch on the market.

Stiffler 05-30-2006 09:11 PM

It's funny, had Kovalev been elsewhere, people would claim he is worth so much more, but since he is with us, he's not worth much... A 32yo, ultra-talented winger at 4.5M a year for 3 years?? I say he's worth a star player of equal value, no less. A ppg+ player, with experience and a comparable salary. Palffy and Demitra were good examples, perhaps Glen Murray, if not with Boston, could be on that list. Even then, I think Murray is not worth Kovalev at that point, he could be a bargain right now if matched with the right centre. But I would keep Kovalev at all cost, the guy is a superb player and still among the most talented in the whole league.

Shabutie 05-30-2006 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiffler
It's funny, had Kovalev been elsewhere, people would claim he is worth so much more, but since he is with us, he's not worth much... A 32yo, ultra-talented winger at 4.5M a year for 3 years?? I say he's worth a star player of equal value, no less. A ppg+ player, with experience and a comparable salary. Palffy and Demitra were good examples, perhaps Glen Murray, if not with Boston, could be on that list. Even then, I think Murray is not worth Kovalev at that point, he could be a bargain right now if matched with the right centre. But I would keep Kovalev at all cost, the guy is a superb player and still among the most talented in the whole league.

He's perhaps worth a PPG player with a bigger contract (say 6m$). However, I don't think it would be worth it.

Teufelsdreck 05-30-2006 10:38 PM

Kovalev is here. Let's enjoy him, not dissect him.

Habs 4 Life 05-31-2006 08:00 AM

We can get something ok for him a good second line player and a prospect..

I think and I am willing to bet that next season at some point in the Bell Centre #27 will get booooed

habfan4 05-31-2006 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie
I do bash him on occasion, only cuz I know that he's our best player, and some nights doesn't play like it. I don't think putting him with a great center would make him far better. He was nearly a PPG player, and admitely said that he was happy with Ribs as his center. I don't think they're a great match together, cuz they both like to carry the puck, and 1 has little scoring touch (ribs). Anywho, as I was saying, Kovalev has more value on the team, than he would fetch on the market.

I generally don't have much to quibble about with your posts, but I can't understand why you continually give Ribeiro a free pass yet pound Kovalev for showing the same inconsistancy. :dunno:

habfan4 05-31-2006 08:35 AM

It's tough to gauge his worth without asking about specific players, he has undisputed talent and is a proven playoff preformer. His salary is reasonable, but certainly not bargain basement. He'd fetch another veteran winger of similar skill and salary.

What Kovalev is worth to the Habs, is credibility on the UFA market. He could have left but choose to stay in Montréal, he symbolizes the fact that the Canadiens are back and that they are capable of attracting and keeping talent.

Shabutie 05-31-2006 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habfan4
I generally don't have much to quibble about with your posts, but I can't understand why you continually give Ribeiro a free pass yet pound Kovalev for showing the same inconsistancy. :dunno:

Cuz to me it doesn't make sens to put all the blame on someone who's only in his "2nd" season. I've knocked on Ribs a few times, when I see no effort. Kovalev, like I said is our best player, and people consider him a "leader", however he takes 1/2 the nights off. It's just frustrating some nights.

Teufelsdreck 05-31-2006 09:33 AM

Kovalev was a free agent in a market that included some notable players, including Pavol Demitra, Glen Murray, Paul Kariya, and Teemu Selanne, among others. Gainey saw Kovalev as the one that best suited the Habs. There might be grousing about why Selanne in particular wasn't targeted, but at the time Selanne appeared to be on his last legs (literally) and he was obliged to accept a lowball offer. I for one am glad the Habs took Kovalev, particularly since he has a history of showing up in the playoffs. Who else on the Habs does?

Teufelsdreck 05-31-2006 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie
Cuz to me it doesn't make sens to put all the blame on someone who's only in his "2nd" season. I've knocked on Ribs a few times, when I see no effort. Kovalev, like I said is our best player, and people consider him a "leader", however he takes 1/2 the nights off. It's just frustrating some nights.

Talk about frustration, Ribs takes entire postseasons off.

22SteveBegin22 05-31-2006 09:47 AM

Everyone knows Kovy takes nights off... we knew it when we signed him. But, he's one of the only players on the team who can score goals that no one else in that same position at that same moment could have scored. In other words, many of Ryder's goals were scored because Ryder put himself in the right place and buried a rebound or took a quality pass and roofed it or whatever, but if it had been any other decent forward swapping places with him at that moment, they would have scored the same goal.. it's just that Ryder has a good sense for putting himself in position to score those goals, which is a skill in itself. But with Kovalev, in addition to having that sense for putting himself in scoring positions, he can also make things happen that other players in that same place and time could not.

Also, I don't like to bring this up because it shouldn't matter from a hockey perspective, but let's be honest -- even when he's not scoring, Kovalev is worth the price of admission almost every night. He makes plays while carrying the puck that only a small handful of people in the whole world can make. That, to me, is always entertaining whether or not it results in goals.

habfan4 05-31-2006 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shabutie
Cuz to me it doesn't make sens to put all the blame on someone who's only in his "2nd" season. I've knocked on Ribs a few times, when I see no effort. Kovalev, like I said is our best player, and people consider him a "leader", however he takes 1/2 the nights off. It's just frustrating some nights.

2nd season :dunno: Ribs played over 40 games in 2001-2002 and over 50 games in 2002-2003 (he's played in excess of 270 total games in the NHL). Sorry the 2nd season excuse is not cutting it.

In terms of Kovalev, every game where he doesn't show up on the scoreboard someone accuses the guy of taking the night off. He might not be dazzling or 100% for 82 regular season games, but saying he takes every other night off is absurd.

Shabutie 05-31-2006 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habfan4
2nd season :dunno: Ribs played over 40 games in 2001-2002 and over 50 games in 2002-2003 (he's played in excess of 270 total games in the NHL). Sorry the 2nd season excuse is not cutting it.

When I say 2nd season, I mean 2nd season which he's been depended upon. How many ppl knew his name in 01-02 or 02-03?


Quote:

Originally Posted by habfan4
In terms of Kovalev, every game where he doesn't show up on the scoreboard someone accuses the guy of taking the night off. He might not be dazzling or 100% for 82 regular season games, but saying he takes every other night off is absurd.

Then I wonder why Gainey would say that Kovalev could do more? Kovalev doesn't give his 100% every night, it's well known.

Shabutie 05-31-2006 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
Talk about frustration, Ribs takes entire postseasons off.

Ahh yes, cuz he didn't find the scoreboard more often, Ribs slept during the playoffs. If you recorded the games, do yourself a favor and watch them over.

Anksun 05-31-2006 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habfan4
2nd season :dunno: Ribs played over 40 games in 2001-2002 and over 50 games in 2002-2003 (he's played in excess of 270 total games in the NHL). Sorry the 2nd season excuse is not cutting it.

In terms of Kovalev, every game where he doesn't show up on the scoreboard someone accuses the guy of taking the night off. He might not be dazzling or 100% for 82 regular season games, but saying he takes every other night off is absurd.

Ribeiro was 23-24 years old in what Shabutie calls his first season. I also consider Ribeiro last season as his 2nd true one. That guy was calls up way to fast, we are usually bashing the habs for bringing the young guys to slowly in the nhl, well Ribeiro is the exception. I wouldnt consider Ribeiro an experience player because he was playing 40-50 games at 4 min. a game before 2003-2004. Hardly.
_____--

As for Kovalev, my favorite post was 22SteveBegin22 one. True, Kovalev is not playing at the same level every single game, he said so himself that you cant play at his playoffs level for a whole 82 games. But the opponent still have to cover him on a nightly basis or he will burn them, this alone, helps the rest of the team in each game.


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