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-   -   Time to trade Theo.... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=25643)

montreal25m 11-05-2003 07:07 AM

Time to trade Theo....
 
Before I make some points, I just want to let you guys know that I love theo, my dog is named after him. I have an autograph jersey from him. Ok, on that note, he has two years remaining in his contract after this year. Therefore, you have to trade him this year or next because you don't want to go into his last year of his contract without trading him or signing him because as you approach that last year, his value will decrease on the trade market. Yes he will be a restricted free agent after his contract...but...you have to qualify him I believe. Do you really want to qualify his 6 million contract? In addition, besides a rough game yesterday from Garon, the goals weren't his fault , just some bad bounces, this kid is ready to become a number 1 goalie. He is tall, confident, poised.....with his size, he looks like the legendary Patty Roy.

My last major point is that if I were GM, I would only trade a player if he is hot. Theo has had a good start to the season except for maybe one or two games, for the most part he has regained his form. Teams have taken notice of this. There is one perfect team for him who is going for the cup and are having some goaltending difficulties. Colorado with Aeibesher and Sauve, they haven't developed as planned or I am sure they were expecting much, much more. It is a perfect match, but I am not sure If I or Bob would have the gutts to make such a trade that can either kill us like the patty trade or add some missing pieces. If the offer is right, I think it can make an impact right away.

Now, my question, if this could be done, what would you look for return? Me personally, you have to get a back up in Sauve or Aeibersher, and I would try to land Tanguay OR Hejduk OR MORRIS and a third line player like Hinote. For those of you who think we have to many defensement, that is true..we have to many 5,6 defensemen. We don't have a legitimate number 1 defensemen. Markov is a 2 or 3 so is Souray. The rest are 5 and 6 on any decent team.

Theo is one guy that can land us something significant! Anyway, just a thought.

RE-HABS 11-05-2003 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
I would only trade a player if he is hot.

So trade your good players because they are hot and keep the guys who aren't producing and are being benched or scratched, I see your logic. :shakehead
You make no sense, sorry.

TwineSniper 11-05-2003 07:40 AM

Theodore's contract won't be a problem if he continues to play the way he has. Now, I don;t mean he has played bad, he just hasn't played the Hart and Vezina caliber that got him his big contract. For that reason I believ he would sign for the obligatory 10% raise, because he probably wouldn't get any more anywhere else.

$6 000 000 to $6 600 000, isn't so bad.

habfan4 11-05-2003 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The~Franchise
Theodore's contract won't be a problem if he continues to play the way he has. Now, I don;t mean he has played bad, he just hasn't played the Hart and Vezina caliber that got him his big contract. For that reason I believ he would sign for the obligatory 10% raise, because he probably wouldn't get any more anywhere else.

$6 000 000 to $6 600 000, isn't so bad.

The 10% raise in a qualifying offer is only for players who make less than the league average.

Habber 11-05-2003 07:51 AM

You don't trade a guy away cause his contract is due almost three years from now. That's retarded.

You especially don't trade Theo for Morris and Hinote. That's retarded,too. Theo's value to us is much higher than what we could get on the trade market for him.

I have not seen anything out of Garon that makes me think he's anything more than an average starter in the NHL.

Rather Gingerly 1* 11-05-2003 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
Now, my question, if this could be done, what would you look for return? Me personally, you have to get a back up in Sauve or Aeibersher, and I would try to land Tanguay OR Hejduk OR MORRIS and a third line player like Hinote.

Can't be done! Why could Colorado trade away such a big part of their youth for Theodore when they could acquire a #1 goalie in CuJo or Burke just by taking on their salary?

There is no market right now for goaltenders. Maybe, by the deadline when injuries and such occur but not now. Very few teams are looking to add a goalie with a big contract and there's a number of them available

Darz 11-05-2003 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
In addition, besides a rough game yesterday from Garon, the goals weren't his fault , just some bad bounces, this kid is ready to become a number 1 goalie. He is tall, confident, poised.....with his size, he looks like the legendary Patty Roy.

Why is it if Garon lets in 4 goals they are all 'bad bounces' and 'weren't his fault' but if Theo was in net and let in the same 4 goals people would of been all over him, calling for his head????
Please don't start comparing Garon to Patrick Roy. I think part of the reason we get so down on our players is we build them up so high to begin with.
BTW, Patrick Roy at 6'0" 185 lbs is alot closer in size to Theodore (5'11" 184 lbs) than Garon (6'2" 199 lbs).

montreal25m 11-05-2003 10:22 AM

hmmmmmmmm
 
Just checked on Nhl.com, patrick roy is 6'2, 195lbs. Anyway, I like theo, I just don't want his contract. Colorado wouldn't be trading away there future as it is. They are getting a young number 1 goalie. What I am saying, we have strength in the goalie position. That is are only strength. Lets use use it to our advantage. Personally, 1 to 2 yrs down the road, I rather see Garon as our number one if he keeps developing the way he has. In terms of why would Lacroix want Theo, Lacroix loves his French Goalies. Burke is a possible anwser, a real short term anwser, Cujo is one of the most overated goalies in the world. I am sure Lacroix loves the fact that Detroit is stuck with him. Theo is young, dynamite and he can be the anwser for him to getting the cup back in Colorado, just like Patty did for him. I personally think that is impossible until they make a coaching change.

In terms of qualifying offers, I am pretty sure that it doesn't matter if you are making lower than the avg min. If you don't qualify him, he becomes a unrestricted free agent. If you qualify him, it is a min of 10% raise, in Theo's case that means 6.6 million approx for the 5th year. He then has a choice to accept the offer or become a restricted free agent. I am pretty sure on this because I think Saku was qualified a couple of years ago. I believe Sami Kapanen, one of the stumbling blocks why we didn't want him is because we would have to qualify his 3 millin contract after last year.


In terms of Theo's trade value, it is high but not at as high as we think. You have to remember, the goalie market is pretty bad especially goalies that are due to make around 6 mill a year over the next 3 yrs with the CBA up. If you can get a solid prospect goalie in Sauve, a first line winger OR defensemen and a third liner, you have done really, really, well.

Anyway, this is just a discussion. Personally, I don't know if i would have the guts of trading Theo.

Darz 11-05-2003 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
Just checked on Nhl.com, patrick roy is 6'2, 195lbs.

I guess it depends on where you look up the info. I've seen him listed at 6'-0" in a few different places and seen his weight listed anywhere between 160 lbs and 195 lbs!!!!


Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
In terms of qualifying offers, I am pretty sure that it doesn't matter if you are making lower than the avg min. If you don't qualify him, he becomes a unrestricted free agent. If you qualify him, it is a min of 10% raise, in Theo's case that means 6.6 million approx for the 5th year.

I didn't think we would have to qualify him, but regardless a new set of rules will be in place by then with the new CBA and all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
Anyway, this is just a discussion. Personally, I don't know if i would have the guts of trading Theo.

I understand where you are coming from, it is better to deal from a source of strenght than a place of weakness, but I think your comment about having the guts is bang on. BG probablely has the guts to trade anyone (I'm guessing), but I have a feeling even he gets nervous thinking about the thought of trading Theo right now.

KOMO_ROCKS 11-05-2003 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darz
Why is it if Garon lets in 4 goals they are all 'bad bounces' and 'weren't his fault' but if Theo was in net and let in the same 4 goals people would of been all over him, calling for his head????
Please don't start comparing Garon to Patrick Roy. I think part of the reason we get so down on our players is we build them up so high to begin with.
BTW, Patrick Roy at 6'0" 185 lbs is alot closer in size to Theodore (5'11" 184 lbs) than Garon (6'2" 199 lbs).

Good point....clearly the fans and media have big expectations from Theo after his monster year in 2002....

BTW: Roy is closer to Garon in size than Theo

Roy is 6'0, 190lbs
Garon is 6'2, 195lbs
Theodore is 5'11, 185lbs

Darz 11-05-2003 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOMO_ROCKS
BTW: Roy is closer to Garon in size than Theo

Roy is 6'0, 190lbs
Garon is 6'2, 195lbs
Theodore is 5'11, 185lbs

I meant Roy is closer to the same size as Theodore than he (Roy) is to Garon.

KOMO_ROCKS 11-05-2003 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darz
I meant Roy is closer to the same size as Theodore than he (Roy) is to Garon.

Oh, I see :)

montreal25m 11-05-2003 11:37 AM

according to tsn and nhl.com
 
According to them he is 6'2 195lbs. They are two pretty good sources. I would like to see a reliable sourse that list him at 6 feet.

Rather Gingerly 1* 11-05-2003 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
Colorado wouldn't be trading away there future as it is. They are getting a young number 1 goalie. What I am saying, we have strength in the goalie position. That is are only strength. Lets use use it to our advantage. Personally, 1 to 2 yrs down the road, I rather see Garon as our number one if he keeps developing the way he has. In terms of why would Lacroix want Theo, Lacroix loves his French Goalies. Burke is a possible anwser, a real short term anwser, Cujo is one of the most overated goalies in the world. I am sure Lacroix loves the fact that Detroit is stuck with him. Theo is young, dynamite and he can be the anwser for him to getting the cup back in Colorado, just like Patty did for him. I personally think that is impossible until they make a coaching change.

In terms of Theo's trade value, it is high but not at as high as we think. You have to remember, the goalie market is pretty bad especially goalies that are due to make around 6 mill a year over the next 3 yrs with the CBA up. If you can get a solid prospect goalie in Sauve, a first line winger OR defensemen and a third liner, you have done really, really, well.

The most Montreal would get for Theodore is a Patrick Roy type deal. And, I can't see Gainey foolishly making a move like that. The goalie market is at an all-time low right now and, besides Theodore's big contract he is coming off a so-so year with a scandal surrounding him. Lacroix knows this and will not throw young players like that out there. Unless we want another Roy trade? Cannot happen.

Rahan 11-05-2003 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
Lacroix knows this and will not throw young players like that out there.

He surely doesn't mind about throwing young players, he did it in almost all of his latest trades.

Malmsteen44 11-05-2003 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
According to them he is 6'2 195lbs. They are two pretty good sources. I would like to see a reliable sourse that list him at 6 feet.

For the longest time he was listed at 6 foot tall and his weight ranged from 1986 (170 lbs) to 2002 (192 lbs). He might have filled out, but that 6'2 sounds a bit taller than what I ever recalled seeing him listed, and I have Hockey previews dating back to 1989.

Closer in size to Theo, and don't trade Theo. The majority of goals I've seen on TSN couldn't be stopped by a brick wall. Time to bring in Komisarek + Hainsey and let them take their lumps and PLAY. I don't think playing hurt the development of Pronger (not that they are as good).

danboulie 11-05-2003 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montreal25m
Before I make some points, I just want to let you guys know that I love theo, my dog is named after him. I have an autograph jersey from him. Ok, on that note, he has two years remaining in his contract after this year. Therefore, you have to trade him this year or next because you don't want to go into his last year of his contract without trading him or signing him because as you approach that last year, his value will decrease on the trade market. Yes he will be a restricted free agent after his contract...but...you have to qualify him I believe. Do you really want to qualify his 6 million contract? In addition, besides a rough game yesterday from Garon, the goals weren't his fault , just some bad bounces, this kid is ready to become a number 1 goalie. He is tall, confident, poised.....with his size, he looks like the legendary Patty Roy.

My last major point is that if I were GM, I would only trade a player if he is hot. Theo has had a good start to the season except for maybe one or two games, for the most part he has regained his form. Teams have taken notice of this. There is one perfect team for him who is going for the cup and are having some goaltending difficulties. Colorado with Aeibesher and Sauve, they haven't developed as planned or I am sure they were expecting much, much more. It is a perfect match, but I am not sure If I or Bob would have the gutts to make such a trade that can either kill us like the patty trade or add some missing pieces. If the offer is right, I think it can make an impact right away.

Now, my question, if this could be done, what would you look for return? Me personally, you have to get a back up in Sauve or Aeibersher, and I would try to land Tanguay OR Hejduk OR MORRIS and a third line player like Hinote. For those of you who think we have to many defensement, that is true..we have to many 5,6 defensemen. We don't have a legitimate number 1 defensemen. Markov is a 2 or 3 so is Souray. The rest are 5 and 6 on any decent team.

Theo is one guy that can land us something significant! Anyway, just a thought.


First off, Garon is a good goalie, no doubt about it. BUt I don't think he's ready to become a number 1 goalie.
Secondly, we won't have to worry much about Theo's contract after it's up because the new CBA is almost guarenteed to make that decrease.
Thirdly, the Theo to Colorado thing has been played to death, and won't happen.
Fourthly, Why would we trade away for a few missing pieces now? as you've said, goaltending is our only strength. Maybe we should wait a few years for some prospects to strengthen this team before there is any big trades happening to bring in a key player or two.
And lastly, we have too many many players on our roster as it is. Trading one goaltender for 2 or 3 other players would only complicate matters.

Bud The Spud* 11-05-2003 04:35 PM

I agree with Aphotic that Garon is not ready to be #1 yet. We need a good #1 and I still think Theo can do the job. Right now the whole team sucks :(

Claude4Eva 11-05-2003 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darz
Why is it if Garon lets in 4 goals they are all 'bad bounces' and 'weren't his fault' but if Theo was in net and let in the same 4 goals people would of been all over him, calling for his head????
Please don't start comparing Garon to Patrick Roy. I think part of the reason we get so down on our players is we build them up so high to begin with.
BTW, Patrick Roy at 6'0" 185 lbs is alot closer in size to Theodore (5'11" 184 lbs) than Garon (6'2" 199 lbs).


I completely agree with you. Montreal fans always put too much pressure on certain players and have high expectations and then get let down!

Rather Gingerly 1* 11-06-2003 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahan
He surely doesn't mind about throwing young players, he did it in almost all of his latest trades.

Tanguay is second in league scoring. The most Montreal could get for Theo right now, would be a Sauve, Hinote and a top prospect or #1 pick type package. Why would Gainey want such a deal?


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