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-   -   Allen could be suspended. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=25658)

Biggest Canuck Fan 11-05-2003 07:57 AM

Allen could be suspended.
 
Allen is going to get a hearing today for his slash on Zetterberg, and the conjecture is 1 to 2 games.

What bothers me is these slashes are a dime a dozen, and Allen's slash was nothing out of the ordinary.

So you set the precedent that if you call this, then every team can send in tapes and get players suspended left, right and center.

Reign Nateo 11-05-2003 08:00 AM

Well he hasn't been suspended yet, but I agree, setting a precident with a call like this is not a good idea. It did not garner a penalty, it wasn't even noteworthy until after the game.

Vatican Roulette 11-05-2003 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan
Allen is going to get a hearing today for his slash on Zetterberg, and the conjecture is 1 to 2 games.

What bothers me is these slashes are a dime a dozen, and Allen's slash was nothing out of the ordinary.

So you set the precedent that if you call this, then every team can send in tapes and get players suspended left, right and center.

I agree with the slash point....i saw the play on review and it honestly didn't look that bad at all. I think he just hit him in the wrong spot at the wrong angle or something.

I actually think this is more of a past history of players being injured by him to warrant the suspension rather than this one incident. Now i dont think thats fair, but i think thats what's going on.

If anything, a game, maybe 2 will be all he gets.

Habsolution 11-05-2003 08:08 AM

He should be suspended 10 games. Sticks aren't meant to be used like that. Particularly on good talented players. Sean Hill made such a slash against St-Louis. I'm disgusted by this. Use your freakin' fists and shoulders. That's how the game of hockey is meant to be played. Leave the sticks on the ice. It's a freakin' attempt to injure. It should be punished as such. Those 1-2 games suspensions are ridiculous. Zetterberg is gonna miss a whole lot more time than than Allen. I don't even see how you guys can defend such actions. You'd be the first to cry for murder if Fischer had done the same thing to Naslund.

incawg 11-05-2003 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution
He should be suspended 10 games. Sticks aren't meant to be used like that. Particularly on good talented players. Sean Hill made such a slash against St-Louis. I'm disgusted by this. Use your freakin' fists and shoulders. That's how the game of hockey is meant to be played. Leave the sticks on the ice. It's a freakin' attempt to injure. It should be punished as such. Those 1-2 games suspensions are ridiculous. Zetterberg is gonna miss a whole lot more time than than Allen. I don't even see how you guys can defend such actions. You'd be the first to cry for murder if Fischer had done the same thing to Naslund.

Have you even seen the play? It was a one-hand tap. Chelios himself had at least 4 or 5 slashes in that game alone that were worse. My guess is that Zetterberg already had a partial break because the slash was literally nothing.

Biggest Canuck Fan 11-05-2003 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution
He should be suspended 10 games. Sticks aren't meant to be used like that. Particularly on good talented players. Sean Hill made such a slash against St-Louis. I'm disgusted by this. Use your freakin' fists and shoulders. That's how the game of hockey is meant to be played. Leave the sticks on the ice. It's a freakin' attempt to injure. It should be punished as such. Those 1-2 games suspensions are ridiculous. Zetterberg is gonna miss a whole lot more time than than Allen. I don't even see how you guys can defend such actions. You'd be the first to cry for murder if Fischer had done the same thing to Naslund.

First of all you are entitled to your opinion.

Second, I can only speak for me, but if the slash was on the wrist, then I would be upset, but I play hockey and take at least 10-15 of those slashes, so if Fischer did that to Naslund, and his leg broke, I would be upset at the shin pad not the player.

3rd remember this when Zednik gets suspended for a harmless slash.

The point is this happens millions of times a season. Why should one instance be singled out? It is a war on the PK, and if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Habsolution 11-05-2003 08:12 AM

I saw a replay where you only see the stick hit Zetterberg somewhere on the leg.

Wether or not it was a soft slash or a hard one makes no difference in my mind. Sticks shouldn't be used like that. That is one of the thing that is ruining the league. The league could use more talent not less. When good players like Zetterberg go down because of slashes the NHL suffers as a whole.

Biggest Canuck Fan 11-05-2003 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution
I saw a replay where you only see the stick hit Zetterberg somewhere on the leg.

Wether or not it was a soft slash or a hard one makes no difference in my mind. Sticks shouldn't be used like that. That is one of the thing that is ruining the league. The league could use more talent not less. When good players like Zetterberg go down because of slashes the NHL suffers as a whole.

Are you proud of team Canada's win in 1972 over team USSR?

Motown Beatdown 11-05-2003 08:14 AM

I dont know if Allens slash warrants a suspension or not. Maybe a game. But that about it. But what is the NHL gonna do about the refs who missed the call? If the league feels Allen is worthy of a suspension, maybe so should the refs who missed the call.

I saw it on TV, Pat Verbeek who does color for road Wings games saw it. How comes the zebra's missed it?

incawg 11-05-2003 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution
Wether or not it was a soft slash or a hard one makes no difference in my mind.

It doesn't? Then I'm sure you'll be thrilled when the entire habs defensive corps is suspended under this precedent then...because I counted at least 1 comparable slash by every one of them in last night's oilers/habs game.

If the NHL wants to crack down on these things they need to start calling penalties, not arbitrarily assessing suspensions when players suffer freak injuries.

Habsolution 11-05-2003 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan
Are you proud of team Canada's win in 1972 over team USSR?

Not really. The slash on Kharlamov was just classless.

Hockey is the only sport where you have a weapon in your hands and where you are not punished when you use it. I think it's stupid.

shveik 11-05-2003 08:19 AM

I do not see what's so wrong with suspending Allen for the slash. Was it intended to injure Zetterberg? Certainly not, otherwise Allen would be deserving of a few months of suspension.

I do not think that suspensions based on the outcome are wrong. I guess it is like speeding. Most of the time you do not get caught. Sometimes you do and then you pay a fine. Sometimes it causes dire consequences and you go to jail. I myself would like to see more lengthy suspensions based on the outcome of the infraction (boarding, slashing, kneeing, etc.)

Mr. Canucklehead 11-05-2003 08:19 AM

Should Allen be suspended? No, I don't think so. It wasn't a malicious slash and those types of slashes happen all the time. Someone else commented, Chris Chelios makes several of those chops per game. If you're going to call one, call all of them. It was bad luck that it happened to break Zetterberg's leg.

Will Allen be suspended? Yes, I believe so. I don't agree with it, but the NHL will probably do it, same as they did with Brad May's check on McKee earlier this year. TSN is reporting the suspension could reach up to 4 games.

~Canucklehead~

Habsolution 11-05-2003 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incawg
If the NHL wants to crack down on these things they need to start calling penalties, not arbitrarily assessing suspensions when players suffer freak injuries.

I actually agree with that on a certain extent. They should call every slashes. It's written fair and square in the rules. Slashing is a penalty. But when an injury happens because of slashing the league should also suspend the player.

incawg 11-05-2003 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shveik
Was it intended to injure Zetterberg? Certainly not, otherwise Allen would be deserving of a few months of suspension.

That the slash was the sole cause of the injury isn't even clear. Zetterberg played several shifts - including his longest of the game - following the supposed break. I'm not medical expert, but I can't imagine it being too easy to skate around with a broken fibula. When you see just how weak this slash actually was it becomes pretty clear that there may have been other circumstances involved in the break.

A Good Flying Bird* 11-05-2003 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Well he hasn't been suspended yet, but I agree, setting a precident with a call like this is not a good idea. It did not garner a penalty, it wasn't even noteworthy until after the game.

It was noteworthy right when it happened, and Zetterberg went down and struggled to get up.

A Good Flying Bird* 11-05-2003 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan
Are you proud of team Canada's win in 1972 over team USSR?

Great question.
Don't use all your brain cells on one post

incawg 11-05-2003 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucklehead17
Will Allen be suspended? Yes, I believe so. I don't agree with it, but the NHL will probably do it, same as they did with Brad May's check on McKee earlier this year. TSN is reporting the suspension could reach up to 4 games.

Yep, I get this same feeling. The NHL will once again avoid the actual issue (calling penalties) and instead try to appease a "wronged" team by giving Allen a game or two. Honestly, the suspension itself isn't a big deal. Allen plays 10 minutes most nights and can be replaced by Slegr. It's the principle here that I have a problem with.

Biggest Canuck Fan 11-05-2003 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsolution
I actually agree with that on a certain extent. They should call every slashes. It's written fair and square in the rules. Slashing is a penalty. But when an injury happens because of slashing the league should also suspend the player.

See this is the more apporpriate response to this incident. Don't suspend the guy. Tell every team "look enough is enough! Every slash will be called. You slash, expect 2 minutes"

Seems harsh, but it's better than suspending every player for a game or two because they are doing what they've been taught to do from competitive youth hockey on up.

Biggest Canuck Fan 11-05-2003 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Great question.
Don't use all your brain cells on one post

And don't try to act like you know hockey when you don't!

Slashing has been a part of this sport since it's inception I'll wager... let's just address the issue now and have a smart ass like yourself act like you have some degree on the subject.

darth5 11-05-2003 08:31 AM

Couple of observations.
1. What difference does it make what style a player is-- whether he is a grinder, sniper, high skill, etc. is irrelevant to whether a slash with intent to injure occurred. THAT is what I think is ruining the NHL-- inconsistent officiating, letting some more established player get away with diving, cross-checking, etc. as opposed to calling infractions consistently regardless of who the player is.
2. Anybody that thinks a suspension would encourage clubs to send more game tapes protesting calls is nuts. They all do it quite frequently enough without encouragement.
3. When intent to injure is completely clear and well established, a player should be suspended for the entire length of the injured player's absence PLUS additional games. That would keep players from malicious misuse of their sticks, etc.
4. Officials need to be penalized also if they clearly witnessed the incident in question and did not call a penalty.

I fully expect to be flamed. Those are my opinions on how to handle the situations, however unlikely they are in the real world.

wazee 11-05-2003 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by incawg
My guess is that Zetterberg already had a partial break because the slash was literally nothing.

That is an absolutely amazing stretch of logic. Let's look at your argument...

1. Zetterberg's leg broke when he was slashed.

2. The slash didn't look too bad to you.

3. Therefore, Zetterberg's leg must have had a partial break before.

You not only twist information to make it fit your hypothesis, you flat make it up. Amazing.

incawg 11-05-2003 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnrocketman
Couple of observations.
1. What difference does it make what style a player is-- whether he is a grinder, sniper, high skill, etc. is irrelevant to whether a slash with intent to injure occurred. THAT is what I think is ruining the NHL-- inconsistent officiating, letting some more established player get away with diving, cross-checking, etc. as opposed to calling infractions consistently regardless of who the player is.

No argument there. At the same time, it shouldn't matter who the injured player is either. If this had been a star slashing some no-name player from a small market club you can bet it wouldn't be reviewed. There are far too many double standards in today's NHL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnrocketman
2. Anybody that thinks a suspension would encourage clubs to send more game tapes protesting calls is nuts. They all do it quite frequently enough without encouragement.

It's not an issue of sending in tapes. It's an issue of precedent. If Allen gets suspended, how can the NHL justify not suspending Chelios in every game he plays considering that he has multiple slashes each game that are more vicious than the Allen one. Correlating suspensions to injury times is a flawed concept when injuries are so variable and often have very little to do with the infraction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnrocketman
3. When intent to injure is completely clear and well established, a player should be suspended for the entire length of the injured player's absence PLUS additional games. That would keep players from malicious misuse of their sticks, etc.

But how often is intent to injure clear and well established? It's not easy to get inside a player's head. Anyway, this is certainly one case where it's obvious Allen wasn't trying to injure the player. If he had wanted to do so I think he would have done more than a one handed tap.

Biggest Canuck Fan 11-05-2003 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnrocketman
Couple of observations.
1. What difference does it make what style a player is-- whether he is a grinder, sniper, high skill, etc. is irrelevant to whether a slash with intent to injure occurred. THAT is what I think is ruining the NHL-- inconsistent officiating, letting some more established player get away with diving, cross-checking, etc. as opposed to calling infractions consistently regardless of who the player is.
2. Anybody that thinks a suspension would encourage clubs to send more game tapes protesting calls is nuts. They all do it quite frequently enough without encouragement.
3. When intent to injure is completely clear and well established, a player should be suspended for the entire length of the injured player's absence PLUS additional games. That would keep players from malicious misuse of their sticks, etc.
4. Officials need to be penalized also if they clearly witnessed the incident in question and did not call a penalty.

I fully expect to be flamed. Those are my opinions on how to handle the situations, however unlikely they are in the real world.

I think your calls are just. I have two concerns...

Our rules are based on precedent. If the NHL calls this one, but then denies the next incident of similar type, then they open up a huge can of worms.

second slashing has been in this sport for longer than most who post here have been alive. Now all the sudden the NHL is going to do soething about the so-called harmless slashes?

I respect everyones opinions on this. I will never tell someone else what they should believe, but can't you all see the ramifications?

I am all for getting slashing out of the game, but suspending players is not the way. Cost teams games with penalties... that will start to make a bigger impact.

wazee 11-05-2003 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnrocketman
Couple of observations.
1. What difference does it make what style a player is-- whether he is a grinder, sniper, high skill, etc. is irrelevant to whether a slash with intent to injure occurred. THAT is what I think is ruining the NHL-- inconsistent officiating, letting some more established player get away with diving, cross-checking, etc. as opposed to calling infractions consistently regardless of who the player is.
2. Anybody that thinks a suspension would encourage clubs to send more game tapes protesting calls is nuts. They all do it quite frequently enough without encouragement.
3. When intent to injure is completely clear and well established, a player should be suspended for the entire length of the injured player's absence PLUS additional games. That would keep players from malicious misuse of their sticks, etc.
4. Officials need to be penalized also if they clearly witnessed the incident in question and did not call a penalty.

I fully expect to be flamed. Those are my opinions on how to handle the situations, however unlikely they are in the real world.

I agree. Call the game by the book and let the chips fall where they may.


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