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-   -   Is Simon Gagne undercredited? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=257195)

wildone26* 06-03-2006 06:32 PM

Is Simon Gagne undercredited?
 
I find it intersting that it is often said of the Flyers that that team is a 1-man show on forwards, just Peter Forsberg. Isnt that unfair to Simon Gagne who is an elite player in the league?

The Kingslayer 06-03-2006 06:40 PM

Its the "Milan Hejduk" syndrome....Peter has a way of making his wingers look so good that people often forget that his wingers are no slootch themselves. Simon Gagne needs to be a little more consistent before he can be called elite but he is getting there.

wildone26* 06-03-2006 06:45 PM

There must be a reason Gagne has been on every Canadian Olympic and World Cup team since 2002 though and made the team as a 22-year old when somebody like Thorton who is the same age did not.

He is an excellent two way player I find, he scores alot of points and he shuts people down as well.


He was a great player for the Flyers before Forsberg came.

Lupul* 06-03-2006 06:45 PM

I don't think Gagne gets enough credit sometimes. IMO what makes him a great player is his hockey sense and always being in an open spot, not his skill level. So people see he's not that flashy or think he doesn't work hard and he doesn't get the credit he deserves.

Colorado Avalanche 06-03-2006 06:46 PM

Forsberg is great player and he makes players on his line better.

Winston Wolf 06-03-2006 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildone26
I find it intersting that it is often said of the Flyers that that team is a 1-man show on forwards, just Peter Forsberg. Isnt that unfair to Simon Gagne who is an elite player in the league?

Gagne is great and all, but certainly not an 'elite' player in the league.

Colorado Avalanche 06-03-2006 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicto10
I don't think Gagne gets enough credit sometimes. IMO what makes him a great player is his hockey sense and always being in an open spot, not his skill level. So people see he's not that flashy or think he doesn't work hard and he doesn't get the credit he deserves.

Well, Gagne usually just crashed the net. Forsberg was making the plays and that's propably why Gagne 'disappears' sometimes, because he don't have the puck so much.

but we should remember Gagne is huge part of Forsberg's line defense. Gagne can use his great speed and many times he saved situations with his speed. He's excellent two-way player.

Colorado Avalanche 06-03-2006 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston Wolf
Gagne is great and all, but certainly not an 'elite' player in the league.

Forsberg is elite, Gagne no.

GKJ 06-03-2006 07:11 PM

Gagne is not undercredited. If anything he is given too much credit. I just hope he doesn't think he is worth more than he really is.

FearTheFlyers 06-03-2006 07:31 PM

Certain misguided Flyer fans think they could get a more valuable player as a free agent for 4.5 million than Gagne will likely get.

That's just absolutely ridiculous.

Blackjack 06-03-2006 07:52 PM

Wow, I almost can't believe what I am reading. After Forsburg, there is no Flyer that I respect more than Gagne. Whoever said that he's not flashy, I have to disagree, I've seen him pull some sick moves on Brodeur. I would absolutly love for NJ to get him, but it would never happen.

Colorado Avalanche 06-03-2006 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagneOwnsYou
Certain misguided Flyer fans think they could get a more valuable player as a free agent for 4.5 million than Gagne will likely get.

That's just absolutely ridiculous.

Isn't he UFA after next year? If you want to sign him long-term contract then you have to pay more than 4.5 million per year.

FearTheFlyers 06-03-2006 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackjack
Wow, I almost can't believe what I am reading. After Forsburg, there is no Flyer that I respect more than Gagne. Whoever said that he's not flashy, I have to disagree, I've seen him pull some sick moves on Brodeur. I would absolutly love for NJ to get him, but it would never happen.

For some reason I've never been able to figure out there has been a subtle dislike of him among Flyer fans for years.

FearTheFlyers 06-03-2006 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
Isn't he UFA after next year? If you want to sign him long-term contract then you have to pay more than 4.5 million per year.

I don't think so.

For a guy who wants to spend his whole career in Philly, I could see him signing maybe 22mil/ 5 year contract this summer.

Colorado Avalanche 06-03-2006 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagneOwnsYou
I don't think so.

For a guy who wants to spend his whole career in Philly, I could see him signing maybe 22mil/ 5 year contract this summer.

Nah, he could easily ask more. Do you really think Flyers will let him go for free? but yeah, he might give some kind of homediscount.

BobbyClarkeFan16 06-03-2006 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagneOwnsYou
For some reason I've never been able to figure out there has been a subtle dislike of him among Flyer fans for years.

I'll tell you exactly why some of us dislike Gagne. I dislike him simply because he has all the tools to be a superstar, yet, he seems to be content with just being good. He's not selfish enough and is always willing to sacrifice his ability for someone else. I just wish he'd say enough is enough and carry this team on his shoulders and become a little more selfish. There's no reason why he can't be a dominant player. You listen to some people on here and his performance is enough for them.

Like I said, it's all about greatness and he has everything to be a great player, yet he seems to be content with just being good. That bugs me about Gagne.

swflyers8* 06-03-2006 10:25 PM

I think Gagne is underrated. The guy is a great 2 way player. He hasn't a center like Forsberg since he has been in Philly. I don't think he played at all with Lindros so who else was a great centerman that we had to help him get the numbers he got this year? No center I can think of. Plus, in the old NHL it was defense first, he had some good years. He had some bad ones with injury but he is only what..26 years old. He has time to get even better. 46 goals is definitely a good start.

FearTheFlyers 06-03-2006 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
I'll tell you exactly why some of us dislike Gagne. I dislike him simply because he has all the tools to be a superstar, yet, he seems to be content with just being good. He's not selfish enough and is always willing to sacrifice his ability for someone else. I just wish he'd say enough is enough and carry this team on his shoulders and become a little more selfish. There's no reason why he can't be a dominant player. You listen to some people on here and his performance is enough for them.

Simon sacrifices being a guy who will wow you with offence and hashas become a 40 goal guy who is a premiere defensive player also. It is my belief that he has worked hard to become everything he has, not being a huge name coming into and out of the draft.

You want him to be more selfish but he was top 5 in the league in shots this year. Let's be realistic here.
Quote:

Like I said, it's all about greatness and he has everything to be a great player, yet he seems to be content with just being good.
I don't buy it for one second.

I think it's a myth created by fans who want him to become more than he is to make up for the deficiencies of others.

BobbyClarkeFan16 06-03-2006 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagneOwnsYou
Simon sacrifices being a guy who will wow you with offence and hashas become a 40 goal guy who is a premiere defensive player also. It is my belief that he has worked hard to become everything he has, not being a huge name coming into and out of the draft.

You want him to be more selfish but he was top 5 in the league in shots this year. Let's be realistic here.


I don't buy it for one second.

I think it's a myth created by fans who want him to become more than he is to make up for the deficiencies of others.

Not really. I take a look at the guy and I see the guy dripping in talent. Not many people in the league have as much natural talent as he does. But I watch him and sometimes, he just seems so uninspired, like he's hesitant on wanting to be in the spotlight. That's what makes me mad. I do wish he were a little bit more selfish. I think he's too unselfish to the point where it's a detriment for him. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting Simon to be more selfish. And it isn't a point about offense, it's a point about being a leader and not being afraid of grabbing the ring and running with it.

FearTheFlyers 06-03-2006 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
Not really. I take a look at the guy and I see the guy dripping in talent. Not many people in the league have as much natural talent as he does. But I watch him and sometimes, he just seems so uninspired, like he's hesitant on wanting to be in the spotlight. That's what makes me mad. I do wish he were a little bit more selfish. I think he's too unselfish to the point where it's a detriment for him. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting Simon to be more selfish. And it isn't a point about offense, it's a point about being a leader and not being afraid of grabbing the ring and running with it.

I don't see a guy dripping in talent. I don't think that's what he is at all.

He's a guy that's worked hard so that his natural ability is maximized in the NHL. To me, Simon Gagne is never going to be more than a premiere defensive forward who can score 40 goals.

If Philly fans want more, they need to look elsewhere. If this guy is supposed to carry the team like a franchise player no wonder there's dissappointment.

And I find him to be perfectly selfish. Again, top 5 in shots.

BobbyClarkeFan16 06-04-2006 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GagneOwnsYou
I don't see a guy dripping in talent. I don't think that's what he is at all.

He's a guy that's worked hard so that his natural ability is maximized in the NHL. To me, Simon Gagne is never going to be more than a premiere defensive forward who can score 40 goals.

If Philly fans want more, they need to look elsewhere. If this guy is supposed to carry the team like a franchise player no wonder there's dissappointment.

And I find him to be perfectly selfish. Again, top 5 in shots.

Well, I don't know about you, but I watched this kid right from junior hockey to his time with the Philadelphia Flyers. This was a kid that put up great numbers in junior hockey and this was a kid who dominated the WJC tournament when he played there in his only year as an 18 year old.

When he came to Philadelphia, in his rookie season, he scored 24 goals. From there, he progressed with 29 and then 33 goals. Then Hitch came along. For two of the three seasons under Hitch, he scored 8 and then 24 goals. It was only this season that he hit the 47 goal mark. This was, and I can honestly say this, the only season in which he progressed after season three. Seasons four and five, he digressed. Now, say what you want in terms of injuries and linemates, he digressed when you compare the numbers.

He was given the number one left wing position this season and he showed what he can do. But he's capable of doing more. I don't think any of us are asking the world of Simon. Play with consistency, play with some heart and play when the game matters. And contrary to what many on here may think, the fact that he's a veteran in Philadelphia, he's pretty much expected to be a leader his. His reluctance to be any sort of leader is what disturbs me more than anything else. Whether he wants to be or not, he is a veteran on this team. You ask your veteran players to lead. He's reluctant to lead. If he were a more vocal guy, and by vocal, I don't mean a rah rah kind of guy, but a guy who can step forward and say "this is what needs to be done to win and this is what I'm willing to do...." then I'd be content. But he doesn't do that.

I think there's something that's holding Simon back. I can't put my finger on it, but there's something that keeps him back. I don't think it's coaching, I don't think it's anything from management. I think it might be the way he was groomed in terms of working with various leaders on the team. He's gone from Lindros, to Desjardins, to Primeau, to Hatcher. I often wonder if this might have stunted his development. I think what Simon needs is someone from the coaching staff to become his mentor. I'd love to see Dave Poulin come onboard as an assistant because I really believe he can be the guy who could bring Simon out of his shell without putting pressure on him. John Stevens would also be a good choice as well.

I think what Simon needs is just someone to give him little rubs every now and then - keep him confident when he isn't feeling confident and keep him firmly planted when he is feeling confident. If he can find that balance, then I believe we'll see the best from Simon.

GKJ 06-04-2006 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackjack
Wow, I almost can't believe what I am reading. After Forsburg, there is no Flyer that I respect more than Gagne. Whoever said that he's not flashy, I have to disagree, I've seen him pull some sick moves on Brodeur. I would absolutly love for NJ to get him, but it would never happen.


The problem is that Gagne simply doesn't want to be great, and he doesn't to be THE guy. Almost like Lindros. Gagne didn't want to be captian because he didn't want the attention. He is a fantastic player but he is a 2nd liner on a championship team I think

Ex Storm 06-04-2006 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
The problem is that Gagne simply doesn't want to be great, and he doesn't to be THE guy. Almost like Lindros. Gagne didn't want to be captian because he didn't want the attention. He is a fantastic player but he is a 2nd liner on a championship team I think

Do you know that for sure? I just thought it was out of respect for Primeau - at least that was the main reason.

FlyersFanJS 06-04-2006 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston Wolf
Gagne is great and all, but certainly not an 'elite' player in the league.

i completely agree. before he can be considered elite he needs to prove that he can get it done in the playoffs. so far his career playoff success has been modest at best

GKJ 06-04-2006 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippyime
Do you know that for sure? I just thought it was out of respect for Primeau - at least that was the main reason.

If that's what was said I dont buy it. Especially since someone else was named captain.


Some people have said this about Joe Thornton, but I just get the sense that Gagne doesn't hate to lose.


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