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-   -   Three way proposal CGY/MTL/NYI (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=26258)

Sled2300 11-07-2003 09:53 AM

Three way proposal CGY/MTL/NYI
 
To CGY
Parrish 2.35
Zednick 1.85

To MTL
Peca 4.25
Gauthier 1.3
CGY 3rd 2004

To NYI
Conroy 2.2
Saprykin 1.0
Bulis 1.15
MTL 2nd 2004

MTL - In is Peca and Gauthier and CGY 3rd rd pick 2004 at a combined salary of 5.55 mil out is Zednick, Bulis and MTL 2nd pick 2004 for an addition in salary of 2.55 mil

CGY - In is Parrish and Zednick for a combined salary of 4.2 mil. Out is Conroy, Saprykin, Gauthier and CGY 3rd rd pick for a decrease in salary of 300 k

NYI - In is Conroy, Saprykin, Bulis and MTL 2nd 2004 at a salary of 4.35 out are Parrish and Peca for a salary dump of 2.4 mil

I make this proposal under these assumptions:

Peca needs out of NYI due to the Yashin/Peca head butting rumors
NYI is tired of Parrish's inconsistent game
MTL is willing to take on salary to land the "star" player to appease the masses
CGY needs primary/secondary scoring

My proposals have been less then stellar as of late but I think this would shake up these three clubs for the better.

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
To CGY
Parrish 2.35
Zednick 1.85

To MTL
Peca 4.25
Gauthier 1.3
CGY 3rd 2004

To NYI
Conroy 2.2
Saprykin 1.0
Bulis 1.15
MTL 2nd 2004

MTL - In is Peca and Gauthier and CGY 3rd rd pick 2004 at a combined salary of 5.55 mil out is Zednick, Bulis and MTL 2nd pick 2004 for an addition in salary of 2.55 mil

CGY - In is Parrish and Zednick for a combined salary of 4.2 mil. Out is Conroy, Saprykin, Gauthier and CGY 3rd rd pick for a decrease in salary of 300 k

NYI - In is Conroy, Saprykin, Bulis and MTL 2nd 2004 at a salary of 4.35 out are Parrish and Peca for a salary dump of 2.4 mil

I make this proposal under these assumptions:

Peca needs out of NYI due to the Yashin/Peca head butting rumors
NYI is tired of Parrish's inconsistent game
MTL is willing to take on salary to land the "star" player to appease the masses
CGY needs primary/secondary scoring

My proposals have been less then stellar as of late but I think this would shake up these three clubs for the better.

I'm guessing you are a Calgary fan.

Peca doesn't need out of NY. The Yashin/Peca rumors were nonsense. Both players are doing well and the Isles are leading their conference right now and off to their best start in years. They've just won three games in a row. They're not about to make any major trades, and they're certainly not going to decimate the second line and give away the team captain.

Parrish's "inconsistent game" has him on his usual 25- 30 goal pace. He has 4 goals in 12 games, on track for 27. He is also serving a valuable role on the PK and supplying his usual gritty game.

Conroy is a UFA this summer and the policy of the Islander organization is not to trade for impending UFAs. So, that shoots this deal right out of the water from the start. Besides, there is no reason for the Isles to want to ship out Peca for Conroy. Similar players in some ways, but the Isles are happy with Peca and he is the team leader. If the Isles really want Conroy, they should wait to this summer since Calgary will not be able to sign him. At that point, the Isles could sign him at no cost in player personnel (if they had the money - which they do not).

Saprkyn is of no interest at all. He is a promising young forward, to be sure, but has a lot to prove and the Isles want to make the playoffs now.

Isles already have a zillion players like Bullis.

This is a brutal deal for the Isles.

No disrespect meant, because you were obviously trying to be fair. But, the Isles aren't interested in this kind of shake up and this deal leaves them in worse shape for now, and for the future.

Sec of Partying Down 11-07-2003 10:03 AM

I like it from a Flames perspective but I doubt the Isles would do it...

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF_IN_LV
I like it from a Flames perspective but I doubt the Isles would do it...

Sure, the Flames give up an impending UFA and two players who aren't really doing well and get two potential 30 goal scorers in return. I'd like that deal if I was a Flames fan as well.

Sled2300 11-07-2003 10:18 AM

How would the deal look if Peca, Zednick and Conroy were left out then? For that matter even MTL then.

Like I said it was under the assumption that Peca HAD to go. I wasn't exactly sure about the rumors but you never know.

The other assumption was this link http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/story/6435297

But Calgary can not afford to take on a large salary like Hamrlik's when he is a d-man and CGY needs scorers. I'm sure Sutter would be more interested in Parrish.

To CGY
Parrish

To NYI
Gauthier
Saprykin

The NYI shops Hamrlik elsewhere.

Cariboux 11-07-2003 10:24 AM

I don't think that Peca in MTL is a good thing. The team is far from being a team and a guy like Peca, who the rumours involved in some internal problems, would not be good for the Habs.

CREW99AW 11-07-2003 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
To CGY
Parrish 2.35
Zednick 1.85

To MTL
Peca 4.25
Gauthier 1.3
CGY 3rd 2004

To NYI
Conroy 2.2
Saprykin 1.0
Bulis 1.15
MTL 2nd 2004

MTL - In is Peca and Gauthier and CGY 3rd rd pick 2004 at a combined salary of 5.55 mil out is Zednick, Bulis and MTL 2nd pick 2004 for an addition in salary of 2.55 mil

CGY - In is Parrish and Zednick for a combined salary of 4.2 mil. Out is Conroy, Saprykin, Gauthier and CGY 3rd rd pick for a decrease in salary of 300 k

NYI - In is Conroy, Saprykin, Bulis and MTL 2nd 2004 at a salary of 4.35 out are Parrish and Peca for a salary dump of 2.4 mil

I make this proposal under these assumptions:

Peca needs out of NYI due to the Yashin/Peca head butting rumors
NYI is tired of Parrish's inconsistent game
MTL is willing to take on salary to land the "star" player to appease the masses
CGY needs primary/secondary scoring

My proposals have been less then stellar as of late but I think this would shake up these three clubs for the better.

Isles don't want 30 yr old Conroy(he's too close to becoming a ufa)and with a surplus of young forward prospects on this yr's roster-Weinhandl,Bergenheim,Hunter,Papineau,I doubt they have interest in Saprykin.

nyi fans maybe tired of Parrish's inconsistent game,but the nyi front office hasn't shown that displeasure.If that was so,we'd see Parrish($2.2M) playing for the Panthers and Novo($800,000) +spare parts playing for the nyi.

and Wang personally called Peca to say Peca wasn't being moved.Trading Peca for spare parts will create quite an ugly backlash.

Sled2300 11-07-2003 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Sure, the Flames give up an impending UFA and two players who aren't really doing well and get two potential 30 goal scorers in return. I'd like that deal if I was a Flames fan as well.

Saprykin will be a 20 goal man eventually and Gauthier brings a lot of intangables to the game other then scoring.

More then any other team in the entire NHL Calgary needs to show signs of improvment this season. The fans have been starved for playoff hockey long enough and the weight of the entire city is on Sutter's shoulders. If the Flames do not get into the playoffs or at the very least proved a close compitetion for the 8th spot there will be more then a fair share of fans turning their back on Sutter and Calgary Flames Hockey.

Trottier 11-07-2003 11:00 AM

The Islanders are playing well. They will very likely need to examine a weakness here or there as the long season unfolds, and potentially look to move to address it.

Right now, they have absolutely no reason whatsoever to make any moves. None. They are winning, and they have re-enforcements of forwards coming back from injury nearer-term (Scatchard, Blake, Weinhandl). Peca and Parrish, despite their unexciting offensive numbers to date, remain very important parts of this team's success, in-their-prime vets whose value (importance) to the team will increase significantly the later the season moves on and into the playoffs (hopefully).

Why in the world would they be looking to move either one at this point?

No offense, but would be beneficial to consider all aspects of a deal (i.e., the other team's situation) before proposing it. No "shaking up" is required on Long Island. In fact, the exact opposite.

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
How would the deal look if Peca, Zednick and Conroy were left out then? For that matter even MTL then.

Like I said it was under the assumption that Peca HAD to go. I wasn't exactly sure about the rumors but you never know.

The other assumption was this link http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/story/6435297

But Calgary can not afford to take on a large salary like Hamrlik's when he is a d-man and CGY needs scorers. I'm sure Sutter would be more interested in Parrish.

To CGY
Parrish

To NYI
Gauthier
Saprykin

The NYI shops Hamrlik elsewhere.

Nothing here either. Isles give up a player they need and want to keep, and get a number 5 dman and an unproven forward in return. Every deal you've put together takes players the Isles want, and adds guys they don't need.

I'm not sure what to say about rumors that the Isles are shopping Hamrlik and Parrish. Could be true, but I doubt it. In link you are giving here, the author is "according to several sources." As far as I can see, those actual "sources" are other columnists. The only real hard news item I've seen about this in weeks is the Detriot News reporting that the Isles would "listen to offers" for Parrish.

The NEW YORK media is not reporting anything like this. And, other more trustworthy sources, like Kevin Allen at USAToday say that rumors the Isles might want to deal Parrish are incorrect.

Either way, the packages you are putting together aren't going to get anything done.

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
Saprykin will be a 20 goal man eventually and Gauthier brings a lot of intangables to the game other then scoring.

More then any other team in the entire NHL Calgary needs to show signs of improvment this season. The fans have been starved for playoff hockey long enough and the weight of the entire city is on Sutter's shoulders. If the Flames do not get into the playoffs or at the very least proved a close compitetion for the 8th spot there will be more then a fair share of fans turning their back on Sutter and Calgary Flames Hockey.


Correction: Saprkyin MAY be a 20 goal man eventually. Right now, he hasn't even proven that he can be a legitimate top six guy. The Isles have other prospects who would rank ahead of him and he would be of little to no interest.

Gauthier does bring a lot of intangables to the game. So what? He still lacks talent and is frequently hurt. He is a decent #4/#5 dman, but wouldn't come close to cracking the Isles top four rotation.

btmarshall 11-07-2003 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
More then any other team in the entire NHL Calgary needs to show signs of improvment this season. The fans have been starved for playoff hockey long enough and the weight of the entire city is on Sutter's shoulders. If the Flames do not get into the playoffs or at the very least proved a close compitetion for the 8th spot there will be more then a fair share of fans turning their back on Sutter and Calgary Flames Hockey.

That's a tough break, but exactly why should the Islanders care? That's Calgary's problem. The Islanders give up way too much up front in this, I think. Not to mention that both of these teams are playing some pretty solid hockey right now. A team will rarely make a major deal to shake up its group of core players when it is playing well.

Sled2300 11-07-2003 11:38 AM

Why should I take your word Darth that Parrish is perfect and the NYI will not be trading him anytime soon?

Look at it this way if there was a rumor that Sutter was looking to trade Iglina and Scatchard was listed as of interest. Wouldn't you like to see an offer that favors NYI now. Don't look down on me for wanting my team to improve at the expensive of another.

Let's face it Gm's get ripped off all the time and although at the time the deal may have made some sense (weither your just looking out for the future or whatever) I think it is about time Calgary comes out ahead of a trade for once. Is that so wrong for me to want that as a fan?

Darth you have been dismissing my offers but are afraid to come up with your own? Do you fear that you will come under the microscope that you place above all these inferior proposals. If your such the expert based on the information that I was going by which is Parrish and Hamrlik are in deed being shopped what do you see as a FAIR deal for both sides then?

Munchausen 11-07-2003 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
To CGY
Parrish 2.35
Zednick 1.85

To MTL
Peca 4.25
Gauthier 1.3
CGY 3rd 2004

To NYI
Conroy 2.2
Saprykin 1.0
Bulis 1.15
MTL 2nd 2004

So Montreal gives up Bulis, Zednik and a 2nd and get Peca, Gauthier and a 3rd?

1- Montreal needs more scoring, not less
2- Montreal has all the LDs they need (Markov, Souray, Hainsey)
3- Montreal has already an overloaded payroll

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
How would the deal look if Peca, Zednick and Conroy were left out then? For that matter even MTL then.

Thank you

CREW99AW 11-07-2003 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
Why should I take your word Darth that Parrish is perfect and the NYI will not be trading him anytime soon?

Look at it this way if there was a rumor that Sutter was looking to trade Iglina and Scatchard was listed as of interest. Wouldn't you like to see an offer that favors NYI now. Don't look down on me for wanting my team to improve at the expensive of another.

Let's face it Gm's get ripped off all the time and although at the time the deal may have made some sense (weither your just looking out for the future or whatever) I think it is about time Calgary comes out ahead of a trade for once. Is that so wrong for me to want that as a fan?

Darth you have been dismissing my offers but are afraid to come up with your own? Do you fear that you will come under the microscope that you place above all these inferior proposals. If your such the expert based on the information that I was going by which is Parrish and Hamrlik are in deed being shopped what do you see as a FAIR deal for both sides then?

according to the press in the last 10 months.

Izzy or Torres,was being dealt to the Panthers for some combination of Yushkevich,Novo,etc.

DiPietro was going to the B's for McLaren+spare parts.

Peca was going to the Blues for Demitra.

Hamrlik was going to TB for spare parts,then later Hamrlik was going to Toronto for spare parts.

Parrish was going to FL for Novo+spare parts.

Now the press saying the Fl;ames have interest in Parrish means little.

Isles have a surplus of younger,cheaper forwards then Parrish,so who knows,maybe they do deal Parrish at some point,but if it is a salary dump,don't expect the nyi to take on impending ufas like Conroy or players that are similar to the ones they already have-

Isles have skilled propsects Weinhandl(47 pts last yr) and Papineau,aside from 2-3 other young forwards.Saprykin to LI makes no sense for the nyi.

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
Why should I take your word Darth that Parrish is perfect and the NYI will not be trading him anytime soon?

Look at it this way if there was a rumor that Sutter was looking to trade Iglina and Scatchard was listed as of interest. Wouldn't you like to see an offer that favors NYI now. Don't look down on me for wanting my team to improve at the expensive of another.

Let's face it Gm's get ripped off all the time and although at the time the deal may have made some sense (weither your just looking out for the future or whatever) I think it is about time Calgary comes out ahead of a trade for once. Is that so wrong for me to want that as a fan?

Darth you have been dismissing my offers but are afraid to come up with your own? Do you fear that you will come under the microscope that you place above all these inferior proposals. If your such the expert based on the information that I was going by which is Parrish and Hamrlik are in deed being shopped what do you see as a FAIR deal for both sides then?

1) First, I didn't ask you to "take me word." You asked for the opinion of Islander fans and you got it. Nobody who responded to this thread, including the Islander fans, Flames fans, Hab fans, or neutral fans thought any of this is remotely possible. It doesn't matter to me whether you want to "take my word." I didn't ask you to agree with me.

2) I did not say Parrish was "perfect." I said he was a useful second liner who the Isles do not want to trade. If I say that the Isles don't need to trade a certain player, that certainly does not translate to me saying the player is "perfect." I didn't even say Parrish was better than average. In fact, I think he is a highly flawed player.

3) I don't "look down on you" for an offer that favors your team. On the other hand, don't expect to get positive feedback from Islander fans when you offer up proposals that decimate our team and build up yours. You took a team that is leading their conference, offered a #5 defesemen and an impending UFA for the guts of the team. Don't expect a positive reaction to those sort of ideas, although I am sorry you feel attacked. Nobody here was trying to flame you.

4) I'm not coming up with an offer of my own because I don't think there is a deal there to be made. The Isles are finally winning, the team is hanging together well, now is not the time to make the move. The Isles have the third best record in the league right now. They are finally getting it done. Why in the world should they make a move now?

Later on down the road, they may need to make some changes for payroll. But, if that happens, I don't think the Flames are going to be the ideal trade partner. Anything can happen, but I personally don't see a deal between Calgary and NYI going down anytime soon.

disles1 11-07-2003 12:14 PM

As an isles fan I do think that LATER in the year they will infact have to make a trade to reduce some salary. Because of increases to their own players (YASHIN,PECA,HAMMER,NIINIMAA ETC). Now that coupled with the impressive START to the season of Hunter and some younger players I can see the isles making a deal. A trade I see that could happen is Parrish for a tough minded Def Dman(ie Gauthier, Warrener). I could see the isles and cal making a deal BUT Gauthier will NOT get you Parrish straight up-- either add a #1 or how about Parrish for Warrener straight up. That would be more realistic.

Sled2300 11-07-2003 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury

2) I didn't even say Parrish was better than average. In fact, I think he is a highly flawed player.

3) You took a team that is leading their conference, offered a #5 defesemen and an impending UFA for the guts of the team.

4) I'm not coming up with an offer of my own because I don't think there is a deal there to be made.

1) I'll conceed that "take your word for it" was a poor choice of words on my part. However you were trying to discredit the "sources" I used by offering up your own.

2) and 3) Huge contradiction on your part. I took back my proposal once you made it clear that the assumption about Peca having to be moved and when you stated that NYI does not trade for UFA's (For what it's worth I believe you on both parts). BUT If Peca had to go then getting Conroy (Poor man's slightly lesser skilled two way C) would fit nicely as a return. How is an average or less player who is highly flawed the guts of your originization? I personally like Parrish because he puts the puck in the net which is what Calgary is surely lacking.

4) If you think there is nothing there that's fine but the fact remains that NYI has an asset that CGY needs (Parrish) and it usually doesn't take much to get average or less players who are highly flawed from thier respective clubs hence the less then spectacular offer.

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disles1
As an isles fan I do think that LATER in the year they will infact have to make a trade to reduce some salary. Because of increases to their own players (YASHIN,PECA,HAMMER,NIINIMAA ETC). Now that coupled with the impressive START to the season of Hunter and some younger players I can see the isles making a deal. A trade I see that could happen is Parrish for a tough minded Def Dman(ie Gauthier, Warrener). I could see the isles and cal making a deal BUT Gauthier will NOT get you Parrish straight up-- either add a #1 or how about Parrish for Warrener straight up. That would be more realistic.


Well, I'll have to polite disagree with you on both points. The Isles are, right now, at the payroll level they planned prior to the season. I expect they're going to ride out the current situation, and POSSIBLY make a move or two in the summer. I think anything that happens before the summer will be relatively small.

As for Warrener, we talked about this yesterday, but I simply think he is a lot more valuable than a guy like Parrish. And, Gauthier is not a major upgrade over the #5 - #7 guys we already have (not saying he isn't an upgrade at all, just not a major improvement). So, I personally don't see a deal betweent the two teams.

But, that is just my guess. I admit that anything can happen.

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
1) I'll conceed that "take your word for it" was a poor choice of words on my part. However you were trying to discredit the "sources" I used by offering up your own.

2) and 3) Huge contradiction on your part. I took back my proposal once you made it clear that the assumption about Peca having to be moved and when you stated that NYI does not trade for UFA's (For what it's worth I believe you on both parts). BUT If Peca had to go then getting Conroy (Poor man's slightly lesser skilled two way C) would fit nicely as a return. How is an average or less player who is highly flawed the guts of your originization? I personally like Parrish because he puts the puck in the net which is what Calgary is surely lacking.

4) If you think there is nothing there that's fine but the fact remains that NYI has an asset that CGY needs (Parrish) and it usually doesn't take much to get average or less players who are highly flawed from thier respective clubs hence the less then spectacular offer.

1) I offered you additional sources of information. You can choose to ignore those sources or not.

2-3) Anyway you slice it, you are offering up a group of players that the Isles wouldn't want or don't need. Don't expect a positive reaction to deals that overtly favor your team.

Peca and Parrish, btw, are in many ways the "guts" of the team. Peca is the Captain, and Parrish probably the hardest worker.

4) Yeah, Parrish is a player CGY needs. Lots of teams have players your team could use. So what? That doesn't mean other teams are going to decimate their lineups to help CGY.

CREW99AW 11-07-2003 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sled2300
1) BUT If Peca had to go then getting Conroy (Poor man's slightly lesser skilled two way C) would fit nicely as a return. How is an average or less player who is highly flawed the guts of your originization? I personally like Parrish because he puts the puck in the net which is what Calgary is surely lacking.

4) If you think there is nothing there that's fine but the fact remains that NYI has an asset that CGY needs (Parrish) and it usually doesn't take much to get average or less players who are highly flawed from thier respective clubs hence the less then spectacular offer.


Isles have not gone near ufas or impending ufas in the last 2 yrs.They don't fit into the tight budget.Peca's signed for the next 3 yrs.

If Peca was dumped for a salary reasons,the isles would look for a cheap,young player with high upside as the key coming back to LI,then try and sell this kid to the tix buyers as the 2nd coming,well worth trading one of the 2 most popular players on the team.

If Parrish is so highly flawed,why is he the player you're after?

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Isles have not gone near ufas or impending ufas in the last 2 yrs.They don't fit into the tight budget.Peca's signed for the next 3 yrs.

If Peca was dumped for a salary reasons,the isles would look for a cheap,young player with high upside as the key coming back to LI,then try and sell this kid to the tix buyers as the 2nd coming,well worth trading one of the 2 most popular players on the team.

If Parrish is so highly flawed,why is he the player you're after?

In Sled2300's defense, he was quoting me. I described Parrish as flawed (because he is streaky). I think Sled2300 recognizes what Parrish does bring to the game.

disles1 11-07-2003 12:32 PM

Darth I respect what you say but I have to disagree about our current d. In my opinion EITHER Gauthier or Warrener would be a HUGE upgrade over our current #5-7. The isles are playing very well now but in the playoffs when guys camp out in the crease we have nobody to clear them out--no one---Hammer no--Kenny cmon--niinimaa no--aucoin maybe. The playoffs are a different beast and if we want to be a legit playoff team than we need some d toughness. Cairns in my opinion can't skate and is so bad we would be lucky to get a draft pick for him--so don't bring him up. My humble opinion

Darth Milbury 11-07-2003 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disles1
Darth I respect what you say but I have to disagree about our current d. In my opinion EITHER Gauthier or Warrener would be a HUGE upgrade over our current #5-7. The isles are playing very well now but in the playoffs when guys camp out in the crease we have nobody to clear them out--no one---Hammer no--Kenny cmon--niinimaa no--aucoin maybe. The playoffs are a different beast and if we want to be a legit playoff team than we need some d toughness. Cairns in my opinion can't skate and is so bad we would be lucky to get a draft pick for him--so don't bring him up. My humble opinion


Warrner and Gauthier are different issues. Warrener is good enough to play on the top four for any team in the league (including the Isles). Gauthier, IMO, is not much more than #5 on a good team. And, yeah, he would be an upgrade over Cairns et al. He just wouldn't be a hugh upgrade. He wouldn't be a big enough addition to justify unloading Parrish's 25 goals.

Sled2300 11-07-2003 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW
If Parrish is so highly flawed,why is he the player you're after?

I've never said he is flawed Darth did. I think he would be perfect for Calgary.


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