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-   -   Proposal: Colorado - Phoenix (beat it to death a bit more) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=26416)

RoyIsALegend* 11-07-2003 09:35 PM

Proposal: Colorado - Phoenix (beat it to death a bit more)
 
Simple proposal.

To Phoenix: D Keith Ballard, COL 3rd round pick
To Colorado: G Sean Burke

Discuss.

Mr. Canucklehead 11-07-2003 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Simple proposal.

To Phoenix: D Keith Ballard, COL 3rd round pick
To Colorado: G Sean Burke

Discuss.

Phoenix doesn't strike me as a team that's looking for future help/prospects and the like, or that is entering a rebuilding phase. I think they already did that when they got rid of guys like Tkachuk and Roenick. So I would find it odd if Burke were dealt for a package like this, and not for someone that would provide more immediate help to the Coyotes.

~Canucklehead~

Vatican Roulette 11-07-2003 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucklehead17
Phoenix doesn't strike me as a team that's looking for future help/prospects and the like, or that is entering a rebuilding phase. I think they already did that when they got rid of guys like Tkachuk and Roenick. So I would find it odd if Burke were dealt for a package like this, and not for someone that would provide more immediate help to the Coyotes.

~Canucklehead~

What? Not rebuilding?

They traded Numminen for Sillinger and a 2nd.

Plus, they've been stocking up on picks and whatnot ever since the Tkachuk deal, like you said.

Also, Burke is getting old, so if they can get picks/prospects for him it will help the team in the future.......where Burke can't help the team in the future.

Ajacied 11-07-2003 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
What? Not rebuilding?

They traded Numminen for Sillinger and a 2nd.

Heh.. worse, it was Sillinger for Numminen straight up, the 2nd went to Dallas and the Stars own the Yotes a conditional first if they re-sign him, which they won't.

hbk 11-08-2003 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modano = God
Heh.. worse, it was Sillinger for Numminen straight up, the 2nd went to Dallas and the Stars own the Yotes a conditional first if they re-sign him, which they won't.


I beleive their were futures attached to the deal which apparently is a draft pick contingent on how far Dallas goes in the playoffs this year. Top end being a 2nd round pick. It's the same type of deal they struck with Vancouver last year for Brad May.

Also, in terms of Numminen resigning. It was actually Numminen's agent that brokered the deal and he did so with the orders of finding a team that would be willing to offer an extension. Their camp sounded fairly positive they would have an extension worked out with Dallas.

hbk 11-08-2003 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Simple proposal.

To Phoenix: D Keith Ballard, COL 3rd round pick
To Colorado: G Sean Burke

Discuss.


actually a proposal very similar to this came up on the Coyote board about 3 months ago. Only difference was the pick but like the May deal last year they could make the draft pick contingent upon the playoff success of the Avalanche. Personally (and my fellow Coyote fans will likely disagree with me), I think this is likely the type of deal that would be worked out between the two parties.

NCAAexpert 11-08-2003 07:16 AM

This is legitimately about what Phoenix can expect for Burke.
Guys who are near the end of their careers and not superstar players don't command players like Tanguay.

If Phoenix is expecting Tanguay, they can pretty well forget it. He is not "untouchable," but the Avalanche won't trade him for a 37-year-old goalie. If we're talking about Theodore, it's a different story.

Plus, Joseph is on the market, which drives the value down.

PhoPhan 11-08-2003 08:00 AM

Ballard and a 3rd is about what I would expect for Burke, once he regains his form. At this point in the year, due to a variety of factors, this deal likely would not go down. Wait until closer to the deadline, however, after Burke has remained healthy, played his ass off, and there are fewer viable options, this is the type of deal I could see happening. The Coyotes really favor the collegiate prospects, so Ballard would be the type of guy they might go for. I actually wouldn't mind throwing a depth forward into this deal with Burke, someone who could help the Avalanche in the playoffs, in order to either upgrade the pick or add a prospect of some sort.

Mr. Canucklehead 11-08-2003 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoPhan
Ballard and a 3rd is about what I would expect for Burke, once he regains his form. At this point in the year, due to a variety of factors, this deal likely would not go down. Wait until closer to the deadline, however, after Burke has remained healthy, played his ass off, and there are fewer viable options, this is the type of deal I could see happening. The Coyotes really favor the collegiate prospects, so Ballard would be the type of guy they might go for. I actually wouldn't mind throwing a depth forward into this deal with Burke, someone who could help the Avalanche in the playoffs, in order to either upgrade the pick or add a prospect of some sort.

Some very good points in there. I think that the pick could be higher, simply because of Burke's undeniable value to the Coyotes team. I still think the Avs would be better off going after someone like Martin Biron, but Sean Burke would definitely be a demon between the pipes for the Avs.

~Canucklehead~

hbk 11-08-2003 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucklehead17
Some very good points in there. I think that the pick could be higher, simply because of Burke's undeniable value to the Coyotes team. I still think the Avs would be better off going after someone like Martin Biron, but Sean Burke would definitely be a demon between the pipes for the Avs.

~Canucklehead~

Just seems to me the only reason that Buffalo deals Biron is if they determine that the other two guys currently behind him will pass him on the depth chart. I'm not sold that Biron is an upgrade over Aebischer at this point. He's young, cheap, and unproven which is essentially what the Avalanche already have. If Colorado is going to make a deal, they will deal for someone with experience and who is capable of winning games and carrying the team for periods/games.

XX 11-08-2003 09:42 AM

What could the Avs offer if we threw a guy like Hrdina into the deal?
Sure he hasnt found his place here yet, im not giving up on him.

Marchy79 11-08-2003 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuckMan
Take Ballard out and you have a more accurate representation of what Burke would bring.

I disagree... Hackett alone cost SJ Sundstrom and a Second rounder. just last season.

Burke has twice the commendations, and is not nearly as spotty a playoff goalie.

Ballard and a third should be fair... but I don't see Colorado wanting to get rid of Ballard so quickly... That would cost Colorado more.

Enoch 11-08-2003 10:43 AM

I think a 2nd round pick, barring a monster bidding war, is fair value for Burke at the deadline, which if I'm the Avs is the only time I make a move for goalie.

Marchy79 11-08-2003 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch
I think a 2nd round pick, barring a monster bidding war, is fair value for Burke at the deadline, which if I'm the Avs is the only time I make a move for goalie.

The whole thing that would make the trade is the stud prospect. Not the second/third round choice.
Burke is 37, but he still has 2-3 years left in the tank. He is in very good physical shape, and when he's on, he can outplay 9.5/10ths of the league... He does not have the drop like CuJo has shown in the past few years..

I would be very surprised if 2 things happen
(1) Burke lasts another full year in Phoenix
(2) That Burke's ticket price is not expensive.

Phoenix woiuld want a young bonafide NHL'er back. (i.e. first rounder Ballard, or Tanguay, etc)

Because Burke is a proven NHL goaltender.

PhoPhan 11-08-2003 11:12 AM

At this point, I think asking for an established player like Tanguay, who is young, cheap, and has shown he can produce, is out of the question. However, a guy like Ballard or Boychuk seems much more feasible.

Goulet17 11-08-2003 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost # 1
The whole thing that would make the trade is the stud prospect. Not the second/third round choice.
Burke is 37, but he still has 2-3 years left in the tank. He is in very good physical shape, and when he's on, he can outplay 9.5/10ths of the league... He does not have the drop like CuJo has shown in the past few years..

I would be very surprised if 2 things happen
(1) Burke lasts another full year in Phoenix
(2) That Burke's ticket price is not expensive.

Phoenix woiuld want a young bonafide NHL'er back. (i.e. first rounder Ballard, or Tanguay, etc)

Because Burke is a proven NHL goaltender.

The likelihood of Burke playing 2-3 more seasons when he turns 37 in January is between slim and none IMO.

Besides, the Avs aren't going to have any use for him past this season, they wouldn't exercise the team option on him.

After this season, the Avs are going to go the youth route, likely giving the goaltending reigns to Sauve full time.

So as far as giving up alot in terms of a trade package, you could forget about it, because the Avs aren't going to give up an Alex Tanguay to have Sean Burke for 4 months. That is the height of stupidity.

If Barnett wants to drive a hard bargain, so be it, none of us have any indications that Lacroix is even interested in Burke. If the Avs aren't in the market, where exactly is Barnett going to deal Burke? It isn't a seller's market.

The fact is that if the Avs don't deal for Burke, I'm not sure what team will, if any. So let Barnett attempt to drive a hard bargain, because the likely result in my mind is the loss of Burke with nothing in return in the off season, and Barnett will be one step closer to the exit door in Phoenix for poor asset management.

Zodiac 11-08-2003 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Simple proposal.

To Phoenix: D Keith Ballard, COL 3rd round pick
To Colorado: G Sean Burke

Discuss.


Take Ballard out.

A 2nd should be enough ...if not too bad then.

XX 11-08-2003 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goulet17
It isn't a seller's market.

Yet

Marchy79 11-08-2003 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goulet17
The likelihood of Burke playing 2-3 more seasons when he turns 37 in January is between slim and none IMO.

Besides, the Avs aren't going to have any use for him past this season, they wouldn't exercise the team option on him.

After this season, the Avs are going to go the youth route, likely giving the goaltending reigns to Sauve full time.

So as far as giving up alot in terms of a trade package, you could forget about it, because the Avs aren't going to give up an Alex Tanguay to have Sean Burke for 4 months. That is the height of stupidity.

If Barnett wants to drive a hard bargain, so be it, none of us have any indications that Lacroix is even interested in Burke. If the Avs aren't in the market, where exactly is Barnett going to deal Burke? It isn't a seller's market.

The fact is that if the Avs don't deal for Burke, I'm not sure what team will, if any. So let Barnett attempt to drive a hard bargain, because the likely result in my mind is the loss of Burke with nothing in return in the off season, and Barnett will be one step closer to the exit door in Phoenix for poor asset management.

I am a firm believer that the final piece of the puzzle (for stanley cups) are always expensive. Ive seen it happen since way back in 1989 when Calgary picked up Gilmour for young rookie Brett Hull and more. Nieuwyndyk to dallas for Iginla.. (more in that trade as well)
Fleury to Colorado for Corbet, Regher etc.
anyways the point is that Phoenix knows (as well as Colorado would as well) That Burke cements the Av's chances on a Stanley cup... and to win a stanley cup, Any team should be willing to pay ALMOST any price.
I used Tanguay more as an example, it could be Skoula as well, or any assortment to the plethora of youth Colorado has. But it will cost more than a draft choice. Esp. when a goalie with 1/3 the resume is shipped near the dead line (UFA albeit as well) for a second and Sundstrom (at the time, one year removed from being a major piece of the best third line in hockey)

Enoch 11-08-2003 06:25 PM

You know what, the Yotes are in a bit of a slump right now, and Burke hasn't been all that great. I still stick to my original statement....

2nd round pick/no more come deadline time, unless a huge bidding war ensues. I say this is his price regardless of which team tries to pick him up.

Freudian 11-08-2003 07:56 PM

A 2nd for Burke at trade deadline would be a good return for Phoenix. I very much doubt you will see any 1st/top prospect involved.

Anway, at least we don't see the Tanguay for Burke proposals anymore. I suspect as the season moves on we will see the proposals from Phoenix fans decrease until we end up with "a 2nd for Burke".:) Just wait and see.

DRL 11-08-2003 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goulet17
The likelihood of Burke playing 2-3 more seasons when he turns 37 in January is between slim and none IMO.

Besides, the Avs aren't going to have any use for him past this season, they wouldn't exercise the team option on him.

After this season, the Avs are going to go the youth route, likely giving the goaltending reigns to Sauve full time.

So as far as giving up alot in terms of a trade package, you could forget about it, because the Avs aren't going to give up an Alex Tanguay to have Sean Burke for 4 months. That is the height of stupidity.

If Barnett wants tThe fact is that if the Avs don't deal for Burke, I'm not sure what team will, if any. So let Barnett attempt to drive a hard bargain, because the likely result in my mind is the loss of Burke with nothing in return in the off season, and Barnett will be one step closer to the exit door in Phoenix for poor asset management.

there is no chance in hell that sauve is the starter in his second year, this whole avs going with youth thing is balony, the avs are going or the cup until guys like blake, sakic, foote etc. retire, get use to it, they aren't going anywhere. i predict sauve will end up like denis and abby before, developing somewhere else, while lacroix acquires a stud #1.

as for burke, he only has a year or two left and i for one don;t wantto give anything like a ballard for him, in my opinion its kolzig or biron, someone who will solidfy the avs goaltending for the next 5 years at least. then and only then do the avs give up a stud prospect like ballard etc.

i think burke is a great goalie and the avs could win the cup with him in net, however i don't want the avs to go through this again when burke retires within the next 2 years, i hope lacroix stays away from him unles the avs get him cheap or as a last minute option.

BTW CUJO looked like **** last nite and i am 100% sure detriot is stuck with him and will have to trade hasek or watch their team crumble to in danger of missing the playoffs, 1 thing is for sure this is st. louis return to the top of their division and posibly a rude awakening for wings fans!

st_roland 11-08-2003 09:25 PM

What about Skoula for Burke=P At this point, i'd rather give up skoula than Ballard

donpaulo 11-08-2003 09:59 PM

well on the face of it, its a pretty terrible lowball offer.
as to why PHX wants to help the avs by sending them their best netminder for a prospect and a lousy 3rd round pick ?

Perhaps if avs send
Sauve, Ballard and a 1st round pick then perhaps... but even then I doubt it

Enoch 11-08-2003 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donpaulo
well on the face of it, its a pretty terrible lowball offer.
as to why PHX wants to help the avs by sending them their best netminder for a prospect and a lousy 3rd round pick ?

Perhaps if avs send
Sauve, Ballard and a 1st round pick then perhaps... but even then I doubt it

:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

No comment.

:shakehead :shakehead


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