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turnbuckle* 07-17-2006 10:31 AM

Where will Zhogy play
 
Does anyone else find Perezhogin to be a bit out of place as a third liner? Most, including me, have been listing him on a third line with Plekanec and now Johnson. Zhogy seems to be the odd man out in that group.

I agree with English Dave that Higgins can play with Plekanec, and he would be a better fit on the "third line," while Perezhogin's best position for this season may be as a part-time first/second liner along with Kostitsyn. I expect Ryder to be demoted to the fourth line on occasion if he plays as sporadically as he did last year.

Samsonov Ribs Kovalev
Ryder Koivu Zhogy/Kosty
Higgins Plek Johnson
Begin Bonk Murray

I think the so-called "third line" can be the most important on a successful team. They have to be capable of shutting down the other team's top line, but a really good one is also a threat to score. The thing is that the other team's top line plays a lot, so this team's third line under a defence conscientious coach like Carbo will play a lot, and much like Carbo in his day will be threats to score.

Hand the keys to the Caddy to Ribeiro to start the season. Ribs putting up good stats can only be good for the Habs - his market value increases. Who knows; the line may have the puck most of the time and score in bunches. Samsonov and Kovalev are the most talented forwards on the team, so whoever plays with them will constitute the top line in all likelihood. If the line isn't productive, make the deal for a top-line center.

In the meantime, Koivu could play with Sammy and Kovy, and either Pleks, Johnson or perhaps Grabovsky could center the second line. Gainey hasn't been known to panic in his Habs tenure, and I don't suspect he will if Ribeiro falters. I think there is too much talent and depth on this team for the struggles of one player to acutely affect the team as long as it's not for half the season.

Let Saku play with Ryder and the two kids, whoever plays better gets the most ice time.


But..................

The only other wildcard I think is Latendresse, who might be ideal on the "third line" if his skating is up to NHL calibre.

Samsonov Ribs Kovalev
Higgins Koivu Ryder
Lats Plek Johnson
Begin Bonk Murray

The only problem with such a scenario is that Perezhogin would lose a spot in the lineup. Kostitsyn may need some more time in the AHL so his demotion wouldn't be the worst thing in the world (I'd like to see him dominate at the AHL level), but Perezhogin showed flashes at the start of last season and in the playoffs that he could be a scoring threat given some consistency. Pretty tough to get consistency when you're sitting in the press box.

When Alex was given a position on a line, he did well. Playing with Kovy and Koivu at the start of the season he looked great at times - in the playoffs on a line with Plekanec and Zednik there was some of his best play of the season.

I realize that this is why many are pencilling him in on the third line with Plekaenc, but as I say I really think I'd prefer him playing on an offensive line unless he really shows improvement in his own zone.

Beakermania* 07-17-2006 10:33 AM

Our fourth line is the shutdown line. We now have three lines who can all score. Also the Koivu line sometimes goes up against other team's best lines. This can work rotating four lines. For a good model see last years Sabres.

Le depisteur 07-17-2006 10:34 AM

At this moment, it's:
Perezhogin - Plekanec - Johnson

But in october???

turnbuckle* 07-17-2006 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beakermania (Post 6045127)
Our fourth line is the shutdown line. We now have three lines who can all score. Also the Koivu line sometimes goes up against other team's best lines. This can work rotating four lines. For a good model see last years Sabres.

You want Bonk and Murray playing 20 minutes a game on the road?

I don't think it's going to happen.

Freaky Habs Fan 07-17-2006 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnbuckle (Post 6045173)
You want Bonk and Murray playing 20 minutes a game on the road?

I don't think it's going to happen.

I agree with you, our 4th line will not be the shut down line.

And turnbuckle, I will make you realize something...there's two way of shutting a line:

1-by playing a strickly defensive game and putting some pressure on the other line...we saw that system 3 years ago when we had Juneau, Dackell and Sundstom on a line.

2-by playing a fast up tempo offensive game and not allowing the other line to touch the puck...we saw that system in the playoffs against Carolina, and it was working just fine!

So if I have the choice between 1 and 2, I will take 2 because you increase your scoring chances, you take off some pressure of the two top line and you shut down the other line. Sure it wouldn't work everytime, but if the ratio of goal for and goal againt of our third line isn't on the negative side, it's all fine!

And if Higgins can be the same player offensively, swap him and Perezhogin...Chris can play on any line and in any situation anyways and he has good chemistry with Plekanec...

Makarov 07-17-2006 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le depisteur (Post 6045134)
At this moment, it's:
Perezhogin - Plekanec - Johnson

But in october???

Bang on...

LW on the 3rd line, thats the only opening at this time for a youngster; the top 2 lines are something of a given at this time...


???????? - Plekanec - Johnson

But once again, things may change in October; what if Samsonov doesn't click with Ribeiro; what if Higgins has trouble finding his game at the start of the year; what if Garbovskiy emerges at the best new winger on the team out of camp...

As of now, you're right on the mark...





.

Beakermania* 07-17-2006 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnbuckle (Post 6045173)
You want Bonk and Murray playing 20 minutes a game on the road?

I don't think it's going to happen.

Re read my post. Sometimes the fourth line will go out against the other teams top line, sometimes Koivu's line will go up against the top line. Our fourth line is defensively capable as a shut down line, and Koivu's line is also capable of playing against other team's top lines on occassion. You don't have to match every shift. We will rotate 4 lines. Some teams only rotate three and give only the odd shift to the fourth line. So we will not be matching people up with the same line every time.

Also Johnson and Pleks are defensively responsible so that line could go out against top lines some of the time as well. The only line I would want to avoid that matchup with would be the Ribs line.

bayrider 07-17-2006 11:01 AM

It's been posted here a 100x, Samsonov will not play with Koivu and Kovalev. Our 2nd line will be Samsonov-Ribeiro-Kovalev

Beakermania* 07-17-2006 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayrider (Post 6045301)
It's been posted here a 100x, Samsonov will not play with Koivu and Kovalev. Our 2nd line will be Samsonov-Ribeiro-Kovalev

Who said anything different in the thread??

oh and

I didn't know Guy Carbonneau posted on this board.

Munchausen 07-17-2006 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beakermania (Post 6045127)
We now have three lines who can all score. Also the Koivu line sometimes goes up against other team's best lines. This can work rotating four lines. For a good model see last years Sabres.

I'll agree with that. I think we have to rid ourselves of this traditional top-2 offensive lines / 3rd shutdown line / 4th energy line mentality.

This blueprint works well when you have little depth or a very strong top-6 that needs to see most of the ice time to produce, but when you have both depth and no high-end /elite type forwards, it is possible, even desirable IMO, to roll 4 balanced lines, the 4th bringing a bit more sandpaper and energy to the mix. That's the best way to make sure the other team can't just cue on one specific line. I think this minimizes the importance of matchups (to some extent) which is a plus on away games and also minimizes the problems we might encounter playing a team with one elite shutdown line like we could see in NJ for example.

paddy 07-17-2006 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen (Post 6045741)
I'll agree with that. I think we have to rid ourselves of this traditional top-2 offensive lines / 3rd shutdown line / 4th energy line mentality.

This blueprint works well when you have little depth or a very strong top-6 that needs to see most of the ice time to produce, but when you have both depth and no high-end /elite type forwards, it is possible, even desirable IMO, to roll 4 balanced lines, the 4th bringing a bit more sandpaper and energy to the mix. That's the best way to make sure the other team can't just cue on one specific line. I think this minimizes the importance of matchups (to some extent) which is a plus on away games and also minimizes the problems we might encounter playing a team with one elite shutdown line like we could see in NJ for example.

:clap: :clap: thank you

We have to stop thinking like dinosaurs

nyhabsfan 07-17-2006 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan (Post 6045231)
I agree with you, our 4th line will not be the shut down line.

And turnbuckle, I will make you realize something...there's two way of shutting a line:

1-by playing a strickly defensive game and putting some pressure on the other line...we saw that system 3 years ago when we had Juneau, Dackell and Sundstom on a line.

2-by playing a fast up tempo offensive game and not allowing the other line to touch the puck...we saw that system in the playoffs against Carolina, and it was working just fine!

So if I have the choice between 1 and 2, I will take 2 because you increase your scoring chances, you take off some pressure of the two top line and you shut down the other line. Sure it wouldn't work everytime, but if the ratio of goal for and goal againt of our third line isn't on the negative side, it's all fine!

And if Higgins can be the same player offensively, swap him and Perezhogin...Chris can play on any line and in any situation anyways and he has good chemistry with Plekanec...


Good Observations Freaky!

I agree with you, especially with the new NHL rules that promote wide open play. Can you imagine how Dackell and Juneau would have done last year with no hooking and holding to slow down the oppossing player driving to the net.

We will have 3 scoring lines and a combo energy/shutdown line. But I am concerned that BONK is the center on the so called ENERGY line.:eek:

He did pay some inspired hockey with Begin last year and had some flashes of brilliance in the playoffs, especially on the PK, so the jury IMO is still out.

Our top 6 players have not been this good in a long time and our offensive depth looks good to start.

I still think a bigger hard nosed second line center is needed adn one more quality Dman.

Boullion is a good 6-7th dman, but we need another solid 3-4 guy IMO. A top 2 dman is way too expensive, nor is their one in our system at the present time.

One thing for sure, with this team speed, we should be fun to watch!! :clap:

Malakhov 07-17-2006 06:18 PM

I'd like to see a

Samsonov - Plekanec - Latendresse

line...

nyhabsfan 07-17-2006 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makarov (Post 6045250)
Bang on...

LW on the 3rd line, thats the only opening at this time for a youngster; the top 2 lines are something of a given at this time...


???????? - Plekanec - Johnson

But once again, things may change in October; what if Samsonov doesn't click with Ribeiro; what if Higgins has trouble finding his game at the start of the year; what if Garbovskiy emerges at the best new winger on the team out of camp...

As of now, you're right on the mark...


With Perezhogin signing a one way contract, it would be his to lose IMO.

I think the position that could be open is on the 4th line, I am not conceeding a starting spot to Murray.

Begin Bonk Kots would be a great place for the kid to get his feet wet in the NHL and move up to any other line if a winger goes down.

Bonk is not void of offensive talent and Begin would be a great mucker on that line.

Chances are that Murray will be in the lineup most nights and used on the PK, but training camp will be VERY INTERESTING this year!


I hope Kots makes it this year! :handclap:





.


sXe 07-17-2006 06:23 PM

BG kept repeating that our lines didn't have "numbers". That's not really true because not all lines have the same ice-time but it does give an indication of the direction BG ( and I believe Carbo won't change much) wanted for the team.
Last year we had 2 legitimate scoring threats and we split them up, this year we have three and who know what will happen.

Altough the question concerning Perez is valid as I don't see him on a shutdown line but having Plek and Johnson should provide enough defensive awareness or at least a lot more than with Zed.

Zed - Koivu -Kovalev
Dagenais- Ribs- Ryder
Bulis-Bonk-Sundtrom
Begin-Plek-Higgins

That was our expected line-up last summer before camp. Lots of things can happen during a season and I can't wait to see it unfold.

the_crippler12 07-17-2006 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sXe (Post 6049696)
BG kept repeating that our lines didn't have "numbers". That's not really true because not all lines have the same ice-time but it does give an indication of the direction BG ( and I believe Carbo won't change much) wanted for the team.
Last year we had 2 legitimate scoring threats and we split them up, this year we have three and who know what will happen.

Altough the question concerning Perez is valid as I don't see him on a shutdown line but having Plek and Johnson should provide enough defensive awareness or at least a lot more than with Zed.

Zed - Koivu -Kovalev
Dagenais- Ribs- Ryder
Bulis-Bonk-Sundtrom
Begin-Plek-Higgins

That was our expected line-up last summer before camp. Lots of things can happen during a season and I can't wait to see it unfold.

Nice! a little black spot et nous sommes tous nus! :D


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