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-   -   The 14th foward (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=272365)

NewHabsEra* 07-17-2006 11:47 PM

The 14th foward
 
Considering we already have 3 grinders under contract (Downy, Begin, Murray) and that Bonk should center the fourth line, it makes little sense to add another grinder to the line-up such as Ferland or Lapierre...

The 14th foward spot should be between Latendresse, Grabovski and Kostitsyn... Is it crazy to think that the best of those 3 highly skilled kids could challenge a guy like Ryder for a spot on Saku's line?

Best case scenario... All 3 kids have outstanding camp, Grabovski tried at center and outplay Ribs by a signifiant margin, looks quite NHL ready... Both Latendresse and Kostitsyn playing with poise and showing they are better option than Ryder on the first line... Then package Ryder, Ribeiro and Markov in a trade to get a top notch puckmover at the blue line.

No more Houle's picks and the NewHabsEra definitively going on... :D

coolguy21415 07-18-2006 12:20 AM

Markov is already a top notch defenseman. Taking our number 1 defenseman and getting a better number 1 defenseman is a marginal improvement given what we'd be sending back.

znk 07-18-2006 12:23 AM

Markov?

CareyPrice x 31 07-18-2006 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by znk (Post 6053075)
Markov?



my thoughts exactly

NewHabsEra* 07-18-2006 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedScull (Post 6053068)
Markov is already a top notch defenseman. Taking our number 1 defenseman and getting a better number 1 defenseman is a marginal improvement given what we'd be sending back.

Markov is far from being a force on PP, he does a decent job but hasnt the confidence neither the shot to be that quarterback we really need... Plus, Markov is a FA next year if Im not wrong... No doubt he is an elite defenseman to move the puck though. I was thinking about someone great in return but I agree this is not evident to get... A guy like Zubov would be perfect as example.

Catamo 07-18-2006 01:03 AM

My god you people are already on your 14th Forward!? My team doesnt even have 10.

bayrider 07-18-2006 01:15 AM

Higgins-Koivu-Ryder
Samsonov-Ribeiro-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Plekanec-Johnson
Begin-Bonk-Murray

that makes 12

Downey = 13, Kostitsyn = 14

Downey will replace Murray when we need toughness for games against bigger clubs.

Kostitsyn will be used to fill in holes in the top 3 lines should there be an injury or someone gets sent down, or to the pressbox.

I don't see Grabovsky playing in the NHL when he still has to play the North American game on the smaller rink. He will get his shot in Hamilton.

Latendresse is still 19, so he can't play in Hamilton. I don't know how it works between NHL and CHL transfers, but I'm pretty sure there is a limit as to how many times you can call up a player from the Q, if any. I know there is some kind of restrictions on that. Maybe someone can clear this up for me, but I am pretty sure there is some kind of limitation.

And lets suppose Lats can move freely between the Q and the NHL, I don't think he is ready to make the leap. I would give him at least a year in the Q, and then play him in Hamilton but as a 14th forward to get the call when theres an injury.

Kostitsyn is the obvious choice. He is highest in the prospect ranks, he's played a dozen games in the NHL (scored 2 goals I might add), and some of Habs teammates and management think highly of his game. Theres no reason to snub Kosty for other prospects that aren't as ready as he is.

I also think a player like Ferland might get the call for a 4th line injury.

Taupy 07-18-2006 02:00 AM

Will there be a waiver draft this year? It could explain why we kept Downey and Murray.

saskhab 07-18-2006 02:13 AM

There is no more waiver draft. New CBA change.

Depending on Danis' waiver status, we may not have the luxury of a 14th forward. If we can't trade Aebischer, and Danis has to clear waivers to go to Hamilton, we may have to start the year with 13 forwards, 7 d-men, and 3 goalies. In 2002-03, we started the year with Garon on the NHL team and then squeaked him through waivers in November until Hackett finally got traded in January. A similar situation may unfold for us regarding Aebischer.

Marksman 07-18-2006 04:14 AM

I wouldnt trade Markov for Zubov straight up, not any more. You need to appreciate what you have.

SOLR 07-18-2006 07:29 AM

Uhh Markov is the best player of this team. He will command 5-5.5m for 4-5 years but thats ok with me. Hes only entering his prime too.

The only way up from Markov is Niedermayer, so its not happening. Zubov for Markov? The stars wont take long to say yes, how about 1 nanosecond?

Blind Gardien 07-18-2006 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea (Post 6052895)
Considering we already have 3 grinders under contract (Downy, Begin, Murray) and that Bonk should center the fourth line, it makes little sense to add another grinder to the line-up such as Ferland or Lapierre...

The 14th foward spot should be between Latendresse, Grabovski and Kostitsyn... Is it crazy to think that the best of those 3 highly skilled kids could challenge a guy like Ryder for a spot on Saku's line?

By contrast, I would much rather have another grinder like Lapierre or Ferland in the 14th forward spot instead of Latendresse, Grabovsky, or Kostitsyn, all of whom I think would be far better served by playing every game with top-line minutes in their respective junior or minor leagues.

Even Lapierre is borderline on that, as I think he has some upside that could benefit from another full season in the AHL. Grabovsky and Kostitsyn together as a #1 line in Hamilton would be far far far better than seeing them in the pressbox in Montreal, IMO. Latendresse still seems to have a lot of issues to work out which would best be done back in junior.

Of course, training camp is the ultimate point of decision. But going in, I'd be happy either carrying just 13 forwards or using somebody with relatively little upside like Ferland as the extra.

Bearing in mind, of course, that we're also quite likely to always have somebody (or somebodies) injured, so plenty of others will get their chances along the way.

NewHabsEra* 07-18-2006 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOLR (Post 6053978)
Uhh Markov is the best player of this team. He will command 5-5.5m for 4-5 years but thats ok with me. Hes only entering his prime too.

The only way up from Markov is Niedermayer, so its not happening. Zubov for Markov? The stars wont take long to say yes, how about 1 nanosecond?

He sure wasnt during the last playoffs and most of the time during the year... Markov can do some amazing things but can play pretty average hockey at time too.. 5 millions is definitively way too much for Markov considering what he really bring to the table... 3.5 would be more reasonnable... I sure havent Markov as high as most of you, he will have to be more consistent and play with more poise on PP...

SOLR 07-18-2006 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea (Post 6056562)
He sure wasnt during the last playoffs and most of the time during the year... Markov can do some amazing things but can play pretty average hockey at time too.. 5 millions is definitively way too much for Markov considering what he really bring to the table... 3.5 would be more reasonnable... I sure havent Markov as high as most of you, he will have to be more consistent and play with more poise on PP...

Uhh, well look at the habs standings without Markov. Hes the player with the single biggest impact on this team.(Ok Huet was, for half a season)

More poise on the PP? He doesnt have a real natural partner on the point yet, you knew that?(I hope Kost becomes this guy by next year) Hes pretty effective on the PP and probably one of the best puck mover in the game at D, period.

Dr_Hook 07-18-2006 01:47 PM

I don't like to have a young skilled guy wasting his time in the press box in the 14th forward role. If Lats and/or Grabovsky are to make this team (which I'm all for if they have a great camp), they have to take a regular shift, or at least be dressed for most of the games.

That's why my pick for the 14th forward is Ferland. He's a little more experienced, not the most skilled guy around, I don't think he has a lot to gain by spending another year in Hamilton. I'm sure he would work his butt off in the practices, just being happy to be in the bigs. Dress him for a game here and there and he'll bring energy and enthusiasm, which is what I look for from a 14th fwrd.

CrAzYNiNe 07-18-2006 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea (Post 6056562)
He sure wasnt during the last playoffs and most of the time during the year... Markov can do some amazing things but can play pretty average hockey at time too.. 5 millions is definitively way too much for Markov considering what he really bring to the table... 3.5 would be more reasonnable... I sure havent Markov as high as most of you, he will have to be more consistent and play with more poise on PP...

You're just blind man. Markov really is one of our greatest players. He has no value, because we can't trade him.

Le depisteur 07-18-2006 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Hook (Post 6057828)
I don't like to have a young skilled guy wasting his time in the press box in the 14th forward role. If Lats and/or Grabovsky are to make this team (which I'm all for if they have a great camp), they have to take a regular shift, or at least be dressed for most of the games.

That's why my pick for the 14th forward is Ferland. He's a little more experienced, not the most skilled guy around, I don't think he has a lot to gain by spending another year in Hamilton. I'm sure he would work his butt off in the practices, just being happy to be in the bigs. Dress him for a game here and there and he'll bring energy and enthusiasm, which is what I look for from a 14th fwrd.

And when there will be injuries, bring back Kostitsyn and Grabovsky to put them on top 3 lines...

phil 07-18-2006 02:07 PM

I think the logical choice would be Latendresse because Kots and Garbovsky (sp?) can play in the AHL w/o having to clear waivers and Latendresse can't... let the kis play 9 games in the NHL and see how things go... then keep him or send him down in Hamilton and call up the best between Garvo and Kots...


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