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417 11-12-2003 05:27 AM

Markov's icetime....
 
I know he hasn't been playing well, but he went from being the teams #1 defenceman to like #5, I really don't like the way CJ has been using him this year, and come to think of it, when Markov had a so-so second half, it kind of happened when CJ took over, he's by far our most intellingent and poised d-man, I understand playing Souray so much and even Brisenois to an extent, but come on both Rivet and Bouillon had more ice tiem than Markov last night, and we had like 7 PP's? no wonder were struggling so much on the PP, we don't have the right personel playing at the same time, once again the montreal organization is sucking every bit of confidence out of another young up and coming player so eventually he can go reclaim that confidence with another team, same thing with Hossa and to an extent Ryder, but with Ryder I give him more credit for forcing the coach to play him due to his hard work.

JeromeHP 11-12-2003 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
I know he hasn't been playing well, but he went from being the teams #1 defenceman to like #5, I really don't like the way CJ has been using him this year, and come to think of it, when Markov had a so-so second half, it kind of happened when CJ took over, he's by far our most intellingent and poised d-man, I understand playing Souray so much and even Brisenois to an extent, but come on both Rivet and Bouillon had more ice tiem than Markov last night, and we had like 7 PP's? no wonder were struggling so much on the PP, we don't have the right personel playing at the same time, once again the montreal organization is sucking every bit of confidence out of another young up and coming player so eventually he can go reclaim that confidence with another team, same thing with Hossa and to an extent Ryder, but with Ryder I give him more credit for forcing the coach to play him due to his hard work.

:handclap: Your right buddy, Markov should at least played 22min/gm and i think Julien is not a real Markov fan like i am and we all are.

mcphee 11-12-2003 07:51 AM

Maybe I've missed some threads but I think that Markov has gotten off lightly so far this year and has to assume responsibility for his play. Rivet has been the target and deservedly so, but Markov has been as bad. Is it CJ's fault ? I don't really think CJ would be well served by Markov playing poorly. I don't know if this has been discussed, but have you noticed that Brisebois and Markov never play the point together on the PP ? Earlier I thought that CJ was going to give evryone a chance on the PP and settle on the most effective, but I'm not sure what the plan is now. I suspected that some sort of reward system was in effect, with players efforts being rewarded with PP time but who knows ?
I remember how Bowman treated Pierre Larouche. He would light it up at home and float on the road. Bowman started benching him at home to get him to work on the road, the message being clear. The problem that I see is that if the plan is to deny players the glory opportunities, unless their work 5-5 is acceptable, he may be cutting off his nose to spite his face. I don't know what the best approach is what Markov, whether he should be looking at his 5 on 5 play as a separate thing to his PP time, but he has seemed to have lost confidence. The same with Rivet, I'm sure he doesn't want to play poorly, but he seems tentative and unsure, leading to mistakes. I don't know if it is a matter of confidence, but we all expected better of both of them.

Munchausen 11-12-2003 08:09 AM

Sometimes the fact that you have the coach's confidence can boost your own. Look at Souray. Right now, Markov's confidence looks shatered after a great start to the season. Maybe his 5 on 5 ice time should be diminished as a result but cuting him on the PP too and giving his ice time to Rivet and Bouillon is just plain wrong.

I don't like the way CJ uses Markov at all. He's our most talented Dman and should probably be out there on the PP for almost the whole 2 min. It's not like the present formula is working anyway.

I think the way CJ is using Markov right now, he'll never gain his confidence back. CJ needs to give him more responsabilities on the PP. Markov's not a veteran, and his confidence is more fragile as a result. We would all gain having Markov and Souray getting massive PP minutes while Brisebois and Hainsey get the rest.

We would probably gain by fireing the special units coach too...

Benji Frank 11-12-2003 10:00 AM

Is Souray really blossomed to the point where he should be playing 27 minutes a game? He never struck me as much more then a physical defenceman.....

Can he keep scoring --- IE-> could he end up with double digits in goals?

Munchausen 11-12-2003 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji Frank
Can he keep scoring --- IE-> could he end up with double digits in goals?

Of course he can. He has a canon shot and improved on his quickness, confidence with the puck and shooting accuracy. With all the PP time he sees, no way he doesn't finnish the year with at least 10 goals (was an inch away from his 7th of the year yesterday in OT).

Benji Frank 11-12-2003 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Of course he can. He has a canon shot and improved on his quickness, confidence with the puck and shooting accuracy. With all the PP time he sees, no way he doesn't finnish the year with at least 10 goals (was an inch away from his 7th of the year yesterday in OT).

Good for him! He's always been a guy I like to cheer for just 'cuz of his size!!

And since he married the Baywatch babe..... :bow: :bow: :yo: :bow: :bow:

YOU 'DA MAN SHELDON!!!!

goalchenyuk 11-12-2003 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
I know he hasn't been playing well, but he went from being the teams #1 defenceman to like #5, I really don't like the way CJ has been using him this year, and come to think of it, when Markov had a so-so second half, it kind of happened when CJ took over, he's by far our most intellingent and poised d-man, I understand playing Souray so much and even Brisenois to an extent, but come on both Rivet and Bouillon had more ice tiem than Markov last night, and we had like 7 PP's? no wonder were struggling so much on the PP, we don't have the right personel playing at the same time, once again the montreal organization is sucking every bit of confidence out of another young up and coming player so eventually he can go reclaim that confidence with another team, same thing with Hossa and to an extent Ryder, but with Ryder I give him more credit for forcing the coach to play him due to his hard work.

he plays bad , really bad comparing to last year so he don't deserves to be on the ice for more time .

prabak11 11-12-2003 01:34 PM

u know i noticed that markov has been very lazy as of late!

did anyone else notice that?

NWT Habs Fan 11-12-2003 02:27 PM

Markov will get increased quantity of ice time when the average quality of his ice time increases as well. It's give and take, and he needs to regain that form from last year and his ice time will be increased considerably. The team cannot sustain a whole season with three defensive pairings not sharing in the ice time much more than is currently happening. But the boys have to pull up their socks first.

tinyzombies 11-12-2003 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prabby
u know i noticed that markov has been very lazy as of late!

did anyone else notice that?

I have noticed that he takes the odd shift off as well. I also watched the game we beat Detroit again and he did it in that game too. Can he be hurt?

Joe Malone 11-12-2003 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raketheleaves
I have noticed that he takes the odd shift off as well. I also watched the game we beat Detroit again and he did it in that game too. Can he be hurt?

Good point. I do recall that Markov missed most of the training camp games, playing in only the last one or two. Not much of an explanation was given either. (Was it his ribs?) Perhaps someone can help me out there.

And let's not forget how his season ended last year. With a knee injury.

Medicine Twin 11-13-2003 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchausen
Sometimes the fact that you have the coach's confidence can boost your own. Look at Souray. Right now, Markov's confidence looks shatered after a great start to the season. Maybe his 5 on 5 ice time should be diminished as a result but cuting him on the PP too and giving his ice time to Rivet and Bouillon is just plain wrong.

I don't like the way CJ uses Markov at all. He's our most talented Dman and should probably be out there on the PP for almost the whole 2 min. It's not like the present formula is working anyway.

I think the way CJ is using Markov right now, he'll never gain his confidence back. CJ needs to give him more responsabilities on the PP. Markov's not a veteran, and his confidence is more fragile as a result. We would all gain having Markov and Souray getting massive PP minutes while Brisebois and Hainsey get the rest.

Quote:

Of course he can. He has a canon shot and improved on his quickness, confidence with the puck and shooting accuracy. With all the PP time he sees, no way he doesn't finnish the year with at least 10 goals (was an inch away from his 7th of the year yesterday in OT)
Although I usually agree with you on many topics, I don't agree with you here Munchausen. Markov IS our most talented D-man but that doesn't mean he's a PP QB... it's quite the opposite actually. It's the one knock I've always had on Markov, even last year... he doesn't have the patience nor the vision to work the point on the PP. He shoots whether he has a shot or not most of the time and causes his team to lose the zone. He'd be more suited to let another point-man handle the puck while he sneaks in off the point. I'm sure he'd work well on either the top unit with Brisebois (who IS a QB) or on the 2nd unit with Hainsey QB'ing. But Souray has played well on the top unit so I'd leave him there for now.

Souray is simply not talented enough to QB a powerplay as you seem to be suggesting. He simply has a MONSTER of a shot... although his timing for using it is better than Markov's while his accuracy suffers. His accuracy is no better than it ever was, he's just shooting alot more. His production should slow down as PK'ers start to key in on him. But I still see him finishing the season with apx. 15 goals... which is awesome.

Last games ice-time (according to ESPN):

Bouillon --> PP 0:46, PK 1:46, EV 19:32
Brisebois -> PP 6:50, PK 2:46, EV 18:05
Markov ---> PP 3:14, PK 0:27, EV 14:31
Rivet ----> PP 1:09, PK 0:57, EV 22:34
Souray ---> PP 7:14, PK 3:10, EV 16:04
Hainsey --> PP 0:47, PK 0:00, EV 8:26

If it were up to me (in order):

PP mins: Brisebois > Souray > Markov > Hainsey > Rivet
PK mins: Souray > Markov > Rivet > Bouillon > Brisebois
EV mins: Souray > Markov > Rivet > Bouillon > Brisebois

Markov should be getting alot more minutes than he's been getting on 5-on-5 and on the PK, his PP mins are fine the way they are. It's an interesting point that was brought up that Markov may be playing injured, I'd like to know the answer.

Munchausen 11-13-2003 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medicine Twin
Although I usually agree with you on many topics, I don't agree with you here Munchausen.

Well I'd find these boards pretty boring if everybody was always agreeing with me. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medicine Twin
Markov IS our most talented D-man but that doesn't mean he's a PP QB... it's quite the opposite actually. It's the one knock I've always had on Markov, even last year... he doesn't have the patience nor the vision to work the point on the PP. He shoots whether he has a shot or not most of the time and causes his team to lose the zone. He'd be more suited to let another point-man handle the puck while he sneaks in off the point. I'm sure he'd work well on either the top unit with Brisebois (who IS a QB) or on the 2nd unit with Hainsey QB'ing. But Souray has played well on the top unit so I'd leave him there for now.

Souray is simply not talented enough to QB a powerplay as you seem to be suggesting. He simply has a MONSTER of a shot... although his timing for using it is better than Markov's while his accuracy suffers. His accuracy is no better than it ever was, he's just shooting alot more. His production should slow down as PK'ers start to key in on him. But I still see him finishing the season with apx. 15 goals... which is awesome.

Last games ice-time (according to ESPN):

Bouillon --> PP 0:46, PK 1:46, EV 19:32
Brisebois -> PP 6:50, PK 2:46, EV 18:05
Markov ---> PP 3:14, PK 0:27, EV 14:31
Rivet ----> PP 1:09, PK 0:57, EV 22:34
Souray ---> PP 7:14, PK 3:10, EV 16:04
Hainsey --> PP 0:47, PK 0:00, EV 8:26

If it were up to me (in order):

PP mins: Brisebois > Souray > Markov > Hainsey > Rivet
PK mins: Souray > Markov > Rivet > Bouillon > Brisebois
EV mins: Souray > Markov > Rivet > Bouillon > Brisebois

Markov should be getting alot more minutes than he's been getting on 5-on-5 and on the PK, his PP mins are fine the way they are. It's an interesting point that was brought up that Markov may be playing injured, I'd like to know the answer.

Although Markov is not a general in the way you seem to see the QBing job on the PP, I think he has amazing vision. Just that fact commands more ice time on the PP. But I can see what you're suggesting and you're not wrong either. My comment was more to point out the fact that Rivet and Bouillon getting all this PP ice time over Markov is just plain wrong IMO.

As for Souray, I do see an improvement with his accuracy and confidence over 2 years ago. And I agree all Souray has going for him offensively is his wicked shot. Still, it's enough to justify his PP time, as he's one of the few that actually shoots on net in the PP. Right now he's our Al Iafrate and the fact that other teams will start covering him is a good thing since it will open some extra ice for the forwards.

tinyzombies 11-13-2003 10:11 PM

Markov was bad again tonight. He's not playing defense, not moving his feet, making risky passes in his own end... I don't like it.

8b 11-13-2003 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
I know he hasn't been playing well, but he went from being the teams #1 defenceman to like #5, I really don't like the way CJ has been using him this year, and come to think of it, when Markov had a so-so second half, it kind of happened when CJ took over, he's by far our most intellingent and poised d-man, I understand playing Souray so much and even Brisenois to an extent, but come on both Rivet and Bouillon had more ice tiem than Markov last night, and we had like 7 PP's? no wonder were struggling so much on the PP, we don't have the right personel playing at the same time, once again the montreal organization is sucking every bit of confidence out of another young up and coming player so eventually he can go reclaim that confidence with another team, same thing with Hossa and to an extent Ryder, but with Ryder I give him more credit for forcing the coach to play him due to his hard work.

I mostly agree. Just after this defeat against NYI, Markov was one of the only 3 players of the team that was +1, and Souray who had lots of icetime was -3. I can understand that Souray is given some icetime with his present streak but play Markov at least 20 min! As I said at the begining of the season, Julien is digging his own grave...


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