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-   -   A Sens forward for a great D propspect (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=27513)

darth5 11-12-2003 05:17 AM

A Sens forward for a great D propspect
 
I'm a Preds fan first, then a Sens fan. Looking at the tremendous depth of the Sens at forward, I wonder if some kind of deal could be struck between the clubs.
Nashville needs a clutch goal scorer-- almost a pure sniper, a finisher. Watching on Center Ice it seems Ottawa could part with such a guy ready to break into a 1st/2nd line role in the big league (somebody that would have on a less talented club). I'm not talking Spezza, Havlat, etc., but maybe someone else (Vermette? I am still learning some of the prospects) just held back in the Sens system by depth. Nashville has just built tremendous depth in D prospects.

What do you guys think? Is it conceivable?

discostu 11-12-2003 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnrocketman
I'm a Preds fan first, then a Sens fan. Looking at the tremendous depth of the Sens at forward, I wonder if some kind of deal could be struck between the clubs.
Nashville needs a clutch goal scorer-- almost a pure sniper, a finisher. Watching on Center Ice it seems Ottawa could part with such a guy ready to break into a 1st/2nd line role in the big league (somebody that would have on a less talented club). I'm not talking Spezza, Havlat, etc., but maybe someone else (Vermette? I am still learning some of the prospects) just held back in the Sens system by depth. Nashville has just built tremendous depth in D prospects.

What do you guys think? Is it conceivable?

Well, Schastlivy fits the description that you're describing, except that he's been really disappointing for us this year. He's a pure goal scorer with a great shot. Before the season began, I had him pegged for 25 goals, but it's looking more doubtful that it will happen. Poor play has bumped around the line-up, and a guy like him needs the icetime to get his goals. If I was the GM, I'd probably want to hang on to him a little while longer to see if he can break out of his slump, but Muckler may be willing to part ways with him sooner.

THere has been talk about getting rid of him. Vermette has played well, and deserves to be on this team, and a guy like Schastlivy may have to move to get Vermette a spot on the roster.

WHo do you have in mind as a D prospect. Ottawa's got quite a few secondary D-man prospects, like Schubert, Vauclair, Platil, etc., so if we trade for someone, I would prefer it to be of someone of a higher calibre than these guys. Most of those guys have an upside of a top 4 d-man, but will most likely top out as bottom pairing guys.

darth5 11-12-2003 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discostu
WHo do you have in mind as a D prospect.

I'm not talking Ryan Suter, he and Hamhuis will be our top 2 in 3 years. Maybe a Kevin Kline, Richard Stehlik, and maybe a 2nd round pick.

Other Dave 11-12-2003 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnrocketman
Maybe a Kevin Kline, Richard Stehlik, and maybe a 2nd round pick.

I don't think that the Sens will trade for a defensive prospect. First of all, with Chara, Redden, Phillips, Pothier, Rachunek, and Volchenkov all under 26, the Sens' defensive core is set for the next five years, meaning any stud prospects they acquire over this period will languish in the minors beyond the length of any rookie contract. Second, Ottawa just traded away a much better prospect than Kevin Klein for just this reason, sending Tim Gleason to LA for Smolinski. Third, as mentioned above, Ottawa has a few lesser prospects of their own in Binghamton. Fourth, there's more likely to be space for a forward in the near future than there is a defenceman, with Van Allen and Alfredsson possibly departing at the end of this season.

Finally, Vermette in particular is a pretty hot commodity in his own right, with a great set of wheels and white-hot intensity so far. I don't think any quantity-for-quality deal will pry him from Muckler's grasp.

Other Dave

Volchenkov 11-12-2003 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnrocketman
I'm not talking Ryan Suter, he and Hamhuis will be our top 2 in 3 years. Maybe a Kevin Kline, Richard Stehlik, and maybe a 2nd round pick.

I would be interested in a Kevin Klein or Richard Stehlik and possibly even Alexandre Sulzer, though giving up Vermette for a defense prospect is out of the question. As mentioned above - Shastlivy does fit the description you sought earlier. He has shown a lot of ability but has been hampered by injuries.

We traded away gleason for 3 reasons:
a) Smolinski was available.
b) He didn't want to sign anyway - the club doesn't want players like that on the team.
c) They don't have a need for top-level defense prospects.

How about these proposals tnrman:
Todd White + Peter Shastlivy for Scott Upshall + Richard Stehlik.
Shastlivy for Klein
White for Klein + Stehlik

Hossa 11-12-2003 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volchenkov
I would be interested in a Kevin Klein or Richard Stehlik and possibly even Alexandre Sulzer, though giving up Vermette for a defense prospect is out of the question. As mentioned above - Shastlivy does fit the description you sought earlier. He has shown a lot of ability but has been hampered by injuries.

We traded away gleason for 3 reasons:
a) Smolinski was available.
b) He didn't want to sign anyway - the club doesn't want players like that on the team.
c) They don't have a need for top-level defense prospects.

How about these proposals tnrman:
Todd White + Peter Shastlivy for Scott Upshall + Richard Stehlik.
Shastlivy for Klein
White for Klein + Stehlik

Don't touch Richard Stehlik. The guy stinks. I said it before last year's draft when people had him at one point in the first round, and I say it again now. The guy lacks the defensive hockey sense to be an NHL d-man. Ya, he's big, and has a hard shot, but he's stupid. Upshall would be interesting though.

Volchenkov 11-12-2003 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hossa
Don't touch Richard Stehlik. The guy stinks. I said it before last year's draft when people had him at one point in the first round, and I say it again now. The guy lacks the defensive hockey sense to be an NHL d-man. Ya, he's big, and has a hard shot, but he's stupid. Upshall would be interesting though.

The sens arn't looking for a top-4 D-Man. Stehlik could make the perfect 3rd pairing defenseman. Although he doesn't have good hockey sense - the sens are good at developing defensemen's skating and in a good system could become a valuable 6th defenseman.

lafite 11-12-2003 01:31 PM

[QUOTE=discostu]Well, Schastlivy fits the description that you're describing, except that he's been really disappointing for us this year. He's a pure goal scorer with a great shot. Before the season began, I had him pegged for 25 goals, but it's looking more doubtful that it will happen. Poor play has bumped around the line-up, and a guy like him needs the icetime to get his goals. If I was the GM, I'd probably want to hang on to him a little while longer to see if he can break out of his slump, but Muckler may be willing to part ways with him sooner.

I think Schastlivy could very well add some scoring to a team that needs it. I for one have given up on him, and I think he has Pavel Dimitra to thank that the team hasn't quite given up on him already. They probably couldn't get much more than a draft pick for him, but I'd take it. Ottawa has too much talent to be any more patient with this guy. Maybe someone else could give him the ice time he would need.

Hossa 11-12-2003 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volchenkov
The sens arn't looking for a top-4 D-Man. Stehlik could make the perfect 3rd pairing defenseman. Although he doesn't have good hockey sense - the sens are good at developing defensemen's skating and in a good system could become a valuable 6th defenseman.

I want my third pairing defenceman to be solid. I don't want a guy like Shane Hnidy or Aki Berg, who doesn't do anything great, and can make a bonehead play and lose you a game. Stehlik gives us nothing Jan Platil, Christoph Schubert or Neil Komadoski don't already provide. The only key difference: Stehlik has a major hockey sense problem.

Volchenkov 11-12-2003 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hossa
I want my third pairing defenceman to be solid. I don't want a guy like Shane Hnidy or Aki Berg, who doesn't do anything great, and can make a bonehead play and lose you a game. Stehlik gives us nothing Jan Platil, Christoph Schubert or Neil Komadoski don't already provide. The only key difference: Stehlik has a major hockey sense problem.

IMO hockey sense can be taught to a defenseman, if he's not matched up against the other team's top players. The probability of any of our prospects developing into NHLers is questionable - addinf a solid physical specimen like Stehlik improves the odds.

Hossa 11-12-2003 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volchenkov
IMO hockey sense can be taught to a defenseman, if he's not matched up against the other team's top players. The probability of any of our prospects developing into NHLers is questionable - addinf a solid physical specimen like Stehlik improves the odds.

Positioning can be taught, hockey sense can not. That's what Aki Berg lacks, that a guy like Wade Redden has. What does Stehlik do that Platil doesn't? Platil is big, has a hard, albeit wild shot, hits like a rock, and is superior defensively. I'd argue Schubert is also superior, as Schubert has played competent hockey at the Olympic level.

I've seen Stehlik a few times, and every time, he's been terrible. The guy looks lost on the ice. I'd rather take a guy like Platil or Schubert, who has that hockey sense and is farther along in their development, than a guy who IF he gains that hockey sense, could join them, and be a good 6th defenceman.

Volchenkov 11-12-2003 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hossa
Positioning can be taught, hockey sense can not. That's what Aki Berg lacks, that a guy like Wade Redden has. What does Stehlik do that Platil doesn't? Platil is big, has a hard, albeit wild shot, hits like a rock, and is superior defensively. I'd argue Schubert is also superior, as Schubert has played competent hockey at the Olympic level.

I've seen Stehlik a few times, and every time, he's been terrible. The guy looks lost on the ice. I'd rather take a guy like Platil or Schubert, who has that hockey sense and is farther along in their development, than a guy who IF he gains that hockey sense, could join them, and be a good 6th defenceman.

I hear your point, although I disagree. Hockey sense can come with time. Could be he's not used to the NA rinks yet and is still adjusting. Sometimes it takes a player a long time before they get a feel for the game at a higher level. I'm not saying that he's neccesarily a better prospect than Platil or Schubert but he does have NHL calibre tools which could develop into an NHL defenseman. The honest truth is that I would rather have Alexandre Sulzer.

SensGod 11-12-2003 03:17 PM

If we can get Upshall somehow...I'll give my left nut to help the cause.

So far this season, I haven't cried foul yet due to the apparent bad start, but I've been trapped in the bible belt for the last while and haven't been able to see too many games. I finally came back and I saw the games against Jersey and Atlanta, and I haven't been too disapointed or let down in any shape or form.

The only player so far that I have been a little "scratching" my head about was Smoke...but his play yesterday eliminated my scratching.

I don't quite know what the uproar is about...but then again...I haven't bee around and relying on Garrioch for your info is a bad idea...

Other Dave 11-13-2003 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensGod
So far this season, I haven't cried foul yet due to the apparent bad start, but I've been trapped in the bible belt for the last while and haven't been able to see too many games. I finally came back and I saw the games against Jersey and Atlanta, and I haven't been too disapointed or let down in any shape or form.

Those were pretty good games (and entertaining too), as was the 3-3 tie vs. Edmonton. The real stinkers were in the previous week, vs. Buffalo and Florida. Those were 'throw stuff at the TV' kind of games.

Other Dave


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