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-   -   NYR/LA Proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=276860)

RightKinger 07-31-2006 11:47 PM

NYR/LA Proposal
 
Would you guys do this deal?

To NYR: Alexander Frolov

To LA: Marc Staal

Frolov is a very good 1st line two way forward who can play both the PP and PK. He has improved every year he has been in the league and he is signed for another 4 years at 2.9M per year. Frolov might become available since Lombardi seemingly isn't very high on him, which is rediculous to me.

To clarify, this proposal thread is a reaction to Kings GM Dean Lombardi's answers to fans at the recent Breakfast with the GM in LA, where he put forth the notion that unless Frolov begins to start playing with some heart and step up consistently, he may not have a place on the team.

UAGoalieGuy 07-31-2006 11:54 PM

so the Rangers give up their best defensive prospect, not to mention he is THE best prospect the Rangers have, for a soft heartless player? No thank you

BDubinskyNYR17* 07-31-2006 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftKinger (Post 6179965)
Would you guys do this deal?

To NYR: Alexander Frolov

To LA: Marc Staal

Frolov is a very good 1st line two way forward who can play both the PP and PK. He has improved every year he has been in the league and he is signed for another 4 years at 2.9M per year. Frolov might become available since Lombardi seemingly isn't very high on him, which is rediculous to me.

To clarify, this proposal thread is a reaction to Kings GM Dean Lombardi's answers to fans at the recent Breakfast with the GM in LA, where he put forth the notion that unless Frolov begins to start playing with some heart and step up consistently, he may not have a place on the team.

id keep Staal but they might have intrest in Montoya.

Montoya to Kings for Brown how about that, the rangers need more grit on this team up front. Hall is a start and Brown is who I wanted instead of Jessiman in 03 draft :shakehead and Brown was taken 13 one spot after Jessiman. Brown can play LW and RW I know power forwards take longer to develop but Brown is one too but not that big and a better skater. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/...name=nhl-kings

FLYLine24 07-31-2006 11:57 PM

No way. Not a chance. Frolov fell off the map the 2nd half of the season last year anyway.

CM Lundqvist 08-01-2006 12:01 AM

Absolutely not.

O'Sullivan or Kopitar?

I'm all ears.

BDubinskyNYR17* 08-01-2006 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 (Post 6180069)
Absolutely not.

O'Sullivan or Kopitar?

I'm all ears.

so u would not do dustin brown for montoya :shakehead

UAGoalieGuy 08-01-2006 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41 (Post 6180096)
so u would not do dustin brown for montoya :shakehead

nope, still giving up way too much

RightKinger 08-01-2006 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41 (Post 6180017)
id keep Staal but they might have intrest in Montoya.

Montoya to Kings for Brown how about that, the rangers need more grit on this team up front. Hall is a start and Brown is who I wanted instead of Jessiman in 03 draft :shakehead and Brown was taken 13 one spot after Jessiman. Brown can play LW and RW I know power forwards take longer to develop but Brown is one too but not that big and a better skater. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/...name=nhl-kings

I might have said yes to that deal before but not anymore now that we have Bernier.

RightKinger 08-01-2006 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy (Post 6180108)
nope, still giving up way too much

HOMER;)

KreiMeARiver* 08-01-2006 12:10 AM

these threads are fun 'n all but I mean trading marc staal? It's not going to happen. Especially for Frolov.

MisterUnspoken 08-01-2006 12:11 AM

We really need a center, not a winger -- I think Staal is more valuable to us than Frolov would be personally.

Though he's a talented player no doubt.

n8 08-01-2006 12:14 AM

Brown is like an excellent 2nd line RW. Not quite elite for 1st line. and at 6'0" he isn't even big enough to develop into a true power forward. Montoya on the other hand is future starting goalie. Overpay. O'Sullivan or Kopitar gets the conversation going in a more even way. I think I'd still want Staal over those two however (unless it's both!)

RightKinger 08-01-2006 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n8 (Post 6180155)
Brown is like an excellent 2nd line RW. Not quite elite for 1st line. and at 6'0" he isn't even big enough to develop into a true power forward. Montoya on the other hand is future starting goalie. Overpay. O'Sullivan or Kopitar gets the conversation going in a more even way. I think I'd still want Staal over those two however (unless it's both!)

Brown plays like a typical PF. He isn't very tall but he is pretty big. His ceiling is Adam Deadmarsh and at worst he is a very good 3rd liner. He hits everything and will stand in front of the net on the PP. A lot of posters would say that Montoya is overated. I don't know I haven't seen him much.

Quote:

O'Sullivan or Kopitar gets the conversation going in a more even way. I think I'd still want Staal over those two however (unless it's both!)
Ok you proved your a homer with this part of your post.

xander 08-01-2006 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftKinger (Post 6180223)
A lot of posters would say that Montoya is overated. I don't know I haven't seen him mcuch

I don't understand how the guy is overrated, he seems to be universally hated outside of this board, despite how impressive he was this year.:dunno:

RightKinger 08-01-2006 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xander (Post 6180276)
I don't understand how the guy is overrated, he seems to be universally hated outside of this board, despite how impressive he was this year.:dunno:

:dunno: I don't kow much about him but I remember making a trade proposal with Montoya in it and getting ripped because a lot of posters thought he is overrated.

funky 08-01-2006 12:32 AM

Okay, I am sick of homer fans. #1 I am a Gretzky fan from way back and I jumped bandwagons as he got traded, well other then the Blues. I am now cheering for both the Rangers and the Kings and would love them to meet in the finals.

I am embarrassed lately about the homerism (if that is a word) of a lot of Ranger fans. Some King fans to some extent seems to be a little out there but when I see arguements about Brown probably not havin the potential of a Montoya it bugs me.

Remember I am a fan of each team but I know Montoya has never played one game in the big leagues so far and has also had up and down seasons. Brown may if lucky pan out to be close to a Deader type but for now Brown has the edge as he can play in the league and Montoya could be the next Richter but he could also be a Storr. Point being just because a player wears your teams sweater doesn't automatically mean he will be the next great superstar.

As for the Staal Frolov comparison, whoever writes of this trade in a matter of seconds better do some research. L.A's whole team sucked the last half due to injuries and teamwork. Staal looks great so far but thats in the OHL not the NHL.

Point being Frolov is a proven 2nd liner with a good contract and a good upside who has already proven himself. Staal has great potential but there is also a chance is a Dale Puriton, doubtful but still unproven.

Just my 2 cents but some days I swear that Rangers fans would take Montoya over Ovechkin and L.A fans would value Frolov over Crosby. Hammer away but at least put some sensible logic behind statements.

xander 08-01-2006 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftKinger (Post 6180296)
:dunno: I don't kow much about him but I remember making a trade proposal with Montoya in it and getting ripped because a lot of posters thought he is overrated.

that's my point, everyone seems to think he is overrated outside of ranger fans. so how can be overrated when no one thinks much of him?

EvilCorporateLawyer 08-01-2006 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funky (Post 6180297)
Okay, I am sick of homer fans. #1 I am a Gretzky fan from way back and I jumped bandwagons as he got traded, well other then the Blues. I am now cheering for both the Rangers and the Kings and would love them to meet in the finals.

I am embarrassed lately about the homerism (if that is a word) of a lot of Ranger fans. Some King fans to some extent seems to be a little out there but when I see arguements about Brown probably not havin the potential of a Montoya it bugs me.

Remember I am a fan of each team but I know Montoya has never played one game in the big leagues so far and has also had up and down seasons. Brown may if lucky pan out to be close to a Deader type but for now Brown has the edge as he can play in the league and Montoya could be the next Richter but he could also be a Storr. Point being just because a player wears your teams sweater doesn't automatically mean he will be the next great superstar.

As for the Staal Frolov comparison, whoever writes of this trade in a matter of seconds better do some research. L.A's whole team sucked the last half due to injuries and teamwork. Staal looks great so far but thats in the OHL not the NHL.

Point being Frolov is a proven 2nd liner with a good contract and a good upside who has already proven himself. Staal has great potential but there is also a chance is a Dale Puriton, doubtful but still unproven.

Just my 2 cents but some days I swear that Rangers fans would take Montoya over Ovechkin and L.A fans would value Frolov over Crosby. Hammer away but at least put some sensible logic behind statements.

WOW.

We overrated our top 10 pick goaltender who had an absolutely awesome season in the AHL??? Are you kidding? I would NOT move Montoya for a guy like Brown. Sorry. Brown is a nice prospect, but Montoya is either an awesome chip for the future or he can be our teams #1 goaltender. He had a stellar year last year.

He's absolutely been disregarded on this board as a prospect and that is more disgusting than anything.

xander 08-01-2006 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funky (Post 6180297)
Okay, I am sick of homer fans. #1 I am a Gretzky fan from way back and I jumped bandwagons as he got traded, well other then the Blues. I am now cheering for both the Rangers and the Kings and would love them to meet in the finals.

I am embarrassed lately about the homerism (if that is a word) of a lot of Ranger fans. Some King fans to some extent seems to be a little out there but when I see arguements about Brown probably not havin the potential of a Montoya it bugs me.

Remember I am a fan of each team but I know Montoya has never played one game in the big leagues so far and has also had up and down seasons. Brown may if lucky pan out to be close to a Deader type but for now Brown has the edge as he can play in the league and Montoya could be the next Richter but he could also be a Storr. Point being just because a player wears your teams sweater doesn't automatically mean he will be the next great superstar.

As for the Staal Frolov comparison, whoever writes of this trade in a matter of seconds better do some research. L.A's whole team sucked the last half due to injuries and teamwork. Staal looks great so far but thats in the OHL not the NHL.

Point being Frolov is a proven 2nd liner with a good contract and a good upside who has already proven himself. Staal has great potential but there is also a chance is a Dale Puriton, doubtful but still unproven.

Just my 2 cents but some days I swear that Rangers fans would take Montoya over Ovechkin and L.A fans would value Frolov over Crosby. Hammer away but at least put some sensible logic behind statements.

everyteam has homers and those that arn't exactly even handed in they're apraisals. I don't think the rangers are any differant in this regard, and there are alot of posters here who do see both side of the issue.

Pizza 08-01-2006 12:38 AM

Thanks, but no deal.

RightKinger 08-01-2006 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funky (Post 6180297)
Okay, I am sick of homer fans. #1 I am a Gretzky fan from way back and I jumped bandwagons as he got traded, well other then the Blues. I am now cheering for both the Rangers and the Kings and would love them to meet in the finals.

I am embarrassed lately about the homerism (if that is a word) of a lot of Ranger fans. Some King fans to some extent seems to be a little out there but when I see arguements about Brown probably not havin the potential of a Montoya it bugs me.

Remember I am a fan of each team but I know Montoya has never played one game in the big leagues so far and has also had up and down seasons. Brown may if lucky pan out to be close to a Deader type but for now Brown has the edge as he can play in the league and Montoya could be the next Richter but he could also be a Storr. Point being just because a player wears your teams sweater doesn't automatically mean he will be the next great superstar.

As for the Staal Frolov comparison, whoever writes of this trade in a matter of seconds better do some research. L.A's whole team sucked the last half due to injuries and teamwork. Staal looks great so far but thats in the OHL not the NHL.

Point being Frolov is a proven 2nd liner with a good contract and a good upside who has already proven himself. Staal has great potential but there is also a chance is a Dale Puriton, doubtful but still unproven.

Just my 2 cents but some days I swear that Rangers fans would take Montoya over Ovechkin and L.A fans would value Frolov over Crosby. Hammer away but at least put some sensible logic behind statements.

Exactly. Great Post. :clap: :bow:

Pizza 08-01-2006 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funky (Post 6180297)
Okay, I am sick of homer fans. #1 I am a Gretzky fan from way back and I jumped bandwagons as he got traded, well other then the Blues. I am now cheering for both the Rangers and the Kings and would love them to meet in the finals.

I am embarrassed lately about the homerism (if that is a word) of a lot of Ranger fans. Some King fans to some extent seems to be a little out there but when I see arguements about Brown probably not havin the potential of a Montoya it bugs me.

Remember I am a fan of each team but I know Montoya has never played one game in the big leagues so far and has also had up and down seasons. Brown may if lucky pan out to be close to a Deader type but for now Brown has the edge as he can play in the league and Montoya could be the next Richter but he could also be a Storr. Point being just because a player wears your teams sweater doesn't automatically mean he will be the next great superstar.

As for the Staal Frolov comparison, whoever writes of this trade in a matter of seconds better do some research. L.A's whole team sucked the last half due to injuries and teamwork. Staal looks great so far but thats in the OHL not the NHL.

Point being Frolov is a proven 2nd liner with a good contract and a good upside who has already proven himself. Staal has great potential but there is also a chance is a Dale Puriton, doubtful but still unproven.

Just my 2 cents but some days I swear that Rangers fans would take Montoya over Ovechkin and L.A fans would value Frolov over Crosby. Hammer away but at least put some sensible logic behind statements.

I would trade Montoya for either Ovechkin or Crosby in an instant....I think this is the first time I have said I would trade him for anybody.

RightKinger 08-01-2006 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Prescription (Post 6180339)
WOW.

We overrated our top 10 pick goaltender who had an absolutely awesome season in the AHL??? Are you kidding? I would NOT move Montoya for a guy like Brown. Sorry. Brown is a nice prospect, but Montoya is either an awesome chip for the future or he can be our teams #1 goaltender. He had a stellar year last year.

He's absolutely been disregarded on this board as a prospect and that is more disgusting than anything.

Thats great and all but Brown is in the NHL. I know its HFBoards and a lot of people think that the unproven young prospect who had a great season in the AHL, OHL, QMJHL, NCAA Etc. is better than the young player who had a good season in the NHL but how could you say it isn't a fair deal. You don't know for sure if Montoya will pan out. The AHL is not the NHL. Brown is proven young player that at worst is a very good 3rd liner. I just don't get it.

Block More Shots 08-01-2006 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funky (Post 6180297)
Okay, I am sick of homer fans. #1 I am a Gretzky fan from way back and I jumped bandwagons as he got traded, well other then the Blues. I am now cheering for both the Rangers and the Kings and would love them to meet in the finals.

I am embarrassed lately about the homerism (if that is a word) of a lot of Ranger fans. Some King fans to some extent seems to be a little out there but when I see arguements about Brown probably not havin the potential of a Montoya it bugs me.

Remember I am a fan of each team but I know Montoya has never played one game in the big leagues so far and has also had up and down seasons. Brown may if lucky pan out to be close to a Deader type but for now Brown has the edge as he can play in the league and Montoya could be the next Richter but he could also be a Storr. Point being just because a player wears your teams sweater doesn't automatically mean he will be the next great superstar.

As for the Staal Frolov comparison, whoever writes of this trade in a matter of seconds better do some research. L.A's whole team sucked the last half due to injuries and teamwork. Staal looks great so far but thats in the OHL not the NHL.

Point being Frolov is a proven 2nd liner with a good contract and a good upside who has already proven himself. Staal has great potential but there is also a chance is a Dale Puriton, doubtful but still unproven.

Just my 2 cents but some days I swear that Rangers fans would take Montoya over Ovechkin and L.A fans would value Frolov over Crosby. Hammer away but at least put some sensible logic behind statements.

I agree to an extent. If you look at Frolov, he's a solid young player who will probably get better. The Kings, during the second half of the season, were a mess. Many things were going wrong (injuries, chemistry like you stated). The deal is tempting but Marc Staal is NYR's best prospect. The Rangers aren't going to deal him without giving him a strong look...he almost made the team out of his first training camp, the coaching staff must see the potential in him to be a top pairing guy. We all know that defense is one of the most important aspects of hockey so if we have a potential number 1 defenseman in our system, it'd be near impossible to let him go. Of course, if you're talking about bringing Ovechkin or Crosby to New York, then we bring up Staal and try to get a deal done. For now, the Rangers should be holding off on any deals to see how Staal pans out. If he doesn't develop into a #1 or even #2 defenseman but a second paring defenseman (#3 or #4), the Rangers still got something out of him.

One of the great things IMO about Staal is that he's not a hit or miss type of prospect. I believe he will succeed at the NHL level and be a first pairing defenseman or second pairing defenseman. The kid has too much talent to be a 5th or 6th defenseman...just what I've seen of him already makes me think he'll be great. With a year in Hartford, I'm positive he'll be ready to make the jump to the NHL. Depending on this year's training camp, he could probably make a strong push this season.

For the Homer comment...Most of us know what the Rangers have in Marc Staal. Most people wouldn't want to deal a potential #1 defenseman for a solid 2nd liner, possible good 1st liner (if he develops a bit more). Why is that? Because a true #1 defenseman is hard to come by. The key word is potential but I'm sure everyone is willing to take that chance on a kid like Staal.

xander 08-01-2006 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftKinger (Post 6180403)
Thats great and all but Brown is in the NHL. I know its HFBoards and a lot of people think that the unproven young prospect who had a great season in the AHL, OHL, QMJHL, NCAA Etc. is better than the young player who had a good season in the NHL but how could you say it isn't a fair deal. You don't know for sure if Montoya will pan out. The AHL is not the NHL. Brown is proven young player that at worst is a very good 3rd liner. I just don't get it.

I don't really see the point of arguing. Brown is a foward and Montoya is a goalie, it's an extreemly hard comparison to make.

right now I wouldn't trade montoya, unless I was bowled over, because I don't yet know what I have in him and because I think his value will climb after he see's a year of NHL time. If you trade him now your probably not going to get fair value and you might trade the wrong goalie.

And who knows, maybe 2 1/2 years from now we're talking about dealing Lundqvist because Montoya has supplanted him. He does have that kind of ability, though i would never project that.


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