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-   -   Gainey Genius Koivu/Briere (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=277715)

GURMEGE 08-03-2006 07:49 PM

Gainey Genius Koivu/Briere
 
Briere 402 130 151 281
Koivu 569 137 323 460

For all of you who blame Gainey for not having quebecois or think Koivu is overpaid. What do you make of this. Numbers don't lie. Koivu 4.75 Briere 5.0 and will get more in years to come. I thought Koivu would feel the wrath from his new contract, but after what happened this summer, we got a sweet deal. JP dumont 2.9mill, come on!!!! It seems we also got a sweet deal on Kovy for 4.5. I am scared what Markov could get next season if Kubina got 5 mill.
Thoughts...

kostybros 08-03-2006 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GURMEGE (Post 6206599)
Briere 402 130 151 281
Koivu 569 137 323 460

For all of you who blame Gainey for not having quebecois or think Koivu is overpaid. What do you make of this. Numbers don't lie. Koivu 4.75 Briere 5.0 and will get more in years to come. I thought Koivu would feel the wrath from his new contract, but after what happened this summer, we got a sweet deal. JP dumont 2.9mill, come on!!!! It seems we also got a sweet deal on Kovy for 4.5. I am scared what Markov could get next season if Kubina got 5 mill.
Thoughts...

you forget that if brière stays healty he will score close to 100pts and koivu will never be close to that. sometimes contracts are based more on potential than actual stats.

Cyrrus147 08-03-2006 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezhogy (Post 6206651)
you forget that if brière stays healty he will score close to 100pts and koivu will never be close to that. sometimes contracts are based more on potential than actual stats.

I agree that Briere can probably score more points than Koivu next year but Koivu prove in the last years that he was a constant offensive forward, something that Briere has to prove yet.

GURMEGE 08-03-2006 08:25 PM

If koivu didn't have knee injuries, if Mario never got injured. who would you prefer?

kostitsyn1489 08-03-2006 08:26 PM

Koivu never close of 100 points? He already scoree 82 with Zednik has a 1st winger!!! Give him player who can play hocvkey skate score make good player and he'll score 100 points. No doubt about that.

waffledave 08-03-2006 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezhogy (Post 6206651)
you forget that if brière stays healty he will score close to 100pts and koivu will never be close to that. sometimes contracts are based more on potential than actual stats.

You talk like Briere scoring 100 pts is a sure thing.

He's never done it before. Never. He was on pace to do it sure, but so was Koivu at one point.

znk 08-03-2006 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 (Post 6206850)
Koivu never close of 100 points? He already scoree 82 with Zednik has a 1st winger!!! Give him player who can play hocvkey skate score make good player and he'll score 100 points. No doubt about that.

I'm not so convinced.
Anyway Brière has better offensive skills and scoring touch but Koivu brings other intangibles that Brière doesent have.

Talent Analyst 08-03-2006 09:09 PM

Koivu at 4.5 > Briere at 5 > Savard at 5

Koivu isn't overpay

GURMEGE 08-03-2006 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talent Analyst (Post 6207144)
Koivu at 4.5 > Briere at 5 > Savard at 5

Koivu isn't overpay

Agreed.
Go Habs Go!!!:handclap:

goalchenyuk 08-03-2006 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 (Post 6206850)
Koivu never close of 100 points? He already scoree 82 with Zednik has a 1st winger!!! Give him player who can play hocvkey skate score make good player and he'll score 100 points. No doubt about that.

from what i know , Saku's best season = 71 ( or 72 ? ) points, not 82 .

Zednik scored around 30 goals few times . He got an horible year last season , but he was great with Kaptain Saku the years before . I don't see the point to act like if he was Dagenais , to explained the numbers of Saku . :dunno:

waffledave 08-03-2006 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# (Post 6207285)
from what i know , Saku's best season = 71 ( or 72 ? ) points, not 82 .

Zednik scored around 30 goals few times . He got an horible year last season , but he was great with Kaptain Saku the years before . I don't see the point to act like if he was Dagenais , to explained the numbers of Saku . :dunno:

Saku's best year was 71 pts...Briere has never scored that many points yet.

Zednik scored 30 goals one time, and scored over 20 two times besides that. He's a borderline 20 goal scorer...Always has been. He's good for playoffs and clutch goals, but he's nowhere near a top line scorer.

NewHabsEra* 08-03-2006 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by znk (Post 6207075)
I'm not so convinced.
Anyway Brière has better offensive skills and scoring touch but Koivu brings other intangibles that Brière doesent have.

People forget quickly.. Koivu never had real solid top 6 wingers material all his carreer long (Savage, Rucinsky, Bulis, Berezin to name few.. In fact the best winger he had was Zednik which one never had the natural skills to be considered a real first line winger) We have been one of the worst teams in the NHL up front in the last 10 years, Im still wondering how Koivu did to stay here that long without jumping the gun, each first line center in the NHL has at least one solid top 6 winger on his line, so Koivu had just no help at some point to generate some offense... Even despite having 0 help, Koivu still managed to have some good seasons and a couple of amazing playoffs... On another side, everyone is so excited about Briere who just had his first real good season/playoffs playing with Dumont and another solid winger as linemates...

I will admit Ive been desapointed with Koivu during the last season but it was his real bad one, everyone know when Koivu is at his best he is a special player.. Remember the serie against Boston when we were down 1-3 and we came back to kick Bruis's ***? Koivu was playing injured and still was the best player of both teams, he was flying on the ice.. Kovalev was amazing as well but Koivu was the real deal in the serie.

I just hope captain courage gets fully healthy one day, he so deserves it... Im effraid the cancer made his body tired..

One thing is sure, Koivu will have better wingers for the years to come, we are in great shape on the wings with our highly skilled kids growing and the add of Samsonov...

Toro 08-03-2006 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# (Post 6207285)
from what i know , Saku's best season = 71 ( or 72 ? ) points, not 82 .

Zednik scored around 30 goals few times . He got an horible year last season , but he was great with Kaptain Saku the years before . I don't see the point to act like if he was Dagenais , to explained the numbers of Saku . :dunno:

Saku has never once played with 2 top wingers. He played with kovalev and Zednik but only Kovalev is a true top winger, as zednik at his best was a second line winger on a winning team.

This year if he plays with a healthy Ryder and a confident Higgins, he should push 100 pts. Also cause the second or other 1st line, will be a great one with the likes of Samsonov Ribs and Kovalev.

goalchenyuk 08-03-2006 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talent Analyst (Post 6207144)
Koivu at 4.5 > Briere at 5 > Savard at 5

Koivu isn't overpay

Briere ;
2005-2006 Sabres 48 25 33 58

Saku ;

2005-2006 Canadiens 72 17 45 62

That say everything ; 4 points in 24 more games .:shakehead

waffledave 08-03-2006 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# (Post 6207404)
Briere ;
2005-2006 Sabres 48 25 33 58

Saku ;

2005-2006 Canadiens 72 17 45 62

That say everything ; 4 points in 24 more games .:shakehead

Briere 402 130 151 281
Koivu 569 137 323 460

That says everything ; 179 points in 167 more games :shakehead

goalchenyuk 08-03-2006 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffledave (Post 6207416)
Briere 402 130 151 281
Koivu 569 137 323 460

That says everything ; 179 points in 167 more games :shakehead

Briere 402 gp 130 goals
Koivu 569 gp 137 goals

That says everything ; 7 more goals in 167 more games :shakehead

NewHabsEra* 08-03-2006 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffledave (Post 6207379)
Saku's best year was 71 pts...Briere has never scored that many points yet.

Zednik scored 30 goals one time, and scored over 20 two times besides that. He's a borderline 20 goal scorer...Always has been. He's good for playoffs and clutch goals, but he's nowhere near a top line scorer.

Zednik had the great chance to be the less worst of the wingers we had in the last few years and has greatly benefited of playing with Koivu... It has always been obvious to me, Zednik is nothing when he only relies on the skills he doesnt have.. Zednik can be a nice second line winger when he works hard like he used to do the first few years we got him, was playing with alot of determination and was just great to protect the puck a la Jagr.. But after the Mclaren hit, even if he found ways to score 20 goals season, he became lazzy probably thinking he had the skills to be an elite player while Zednik has clearly not the vision, the passing skills, the stickhandling skills and the overall natural skills to play fancy... This is just not his game.. The old good Zednik always reminded me Deadmarsh in the sense that both werent skilled that much but just enough to play on top lines cause their hardwork and determination were doing the job done.. Deadmarsh never slowed down though, always kept his intensity at the same level despite some bad concusions.

waffledave 08-03-2006 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# (Post 6207453)
Briere 402 gp 130 goals
Koivu 569 gp 137 goals

That says everything ; 7 more goals in 167 more games :shakehead

:amazed:

oook

Koivu is not a scorer...He's a playmaker, as you can see, he has twice as many assists as Briere...

Koivu: 569 gp 137 goals
Pronger: 802 gp 106 goals

Koivu has 31 more goals than Pronger in 233 less games. Since we're comparing completely different types of players' goal production, I guess this shows Pronger obviously sucks.

Pere Noel 08-03-2006 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# (Post 6207404)
Briere ;
2005-2006 Sabres 48 25 33 58

Saku ;

2005-2006 Canadiens 72 17 45 62

That say everything ; 4 points in 24 more games .:shakehead

Briere ;

28 year old/new NHL Sabres 48 25 33 58

Saku ;

22 year old/old NHL Canadiens 50 17 39 56

That says everything. Sure let's pay on potential...

goalchenyuk 08-03-2006 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffledave (Post 6207488)
:amazed:

oook

Koivu is not a scorer...He's a playmaker, as you can see, he has twice as many assists as Briere...

Koivu: 569 gp 137 goals
Pronger: 802 gp 106 goals

Koivu has 31 more goals than Pronger in 233 less games. Since we're comparing completely different types of players' goal production, I guess this shows Pronger obviously sucks.

everything is going well ? you have a big day ?

goalchenyuk 08-03-2006 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pere Noel (Post 6207555)
Briere ;

28 year old/new NHL Sabres 48 25 33 58

Saku ;

22 year old/old NHL Canadiens 50 17 39 56

That says everything. Sure let's pay on potential...

yeah ! true ! give Saku 5 millions because ten years ago he made those points :handclap: :dunce: :handclap:

waffledave 08-03-2006 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# (Post 6207667)
everything is going well ? you have a big day ?

:dunno:

frederixx 08-03-2006 10:37 PM

both are good players... no need to argue over that.

i'd trade Koivu for Briere anytime tho... but that's my personal opinion.

Slick Nick 08-03-2006 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pere Noel (Post 6207555)
Briere ;

28 year old/new NHL Sabres 48 25 33 58

Saku ;

22 year old/old NHL Canadiens 50 17 39 56

That says everything. Sure let's pay on potential...

do you remember the team we had then? Zholtok was a hero back then. Come on.. some objectivity would be appreciated.

Clumsyhab 08-03-2006 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewHabsArea (Post 6207389)
People forget quickly.. Koivu never had real solid top 6 wingers material all his carreer long (Savage, Rucinsky, Bulis, Berezin to name few.. In fact the best winger he had was Zednik which one never had the natural skills to be considered a real first line winger)

Are you kidding me? Koivu's best winger was Recchi, even better than Kovy. Along with Corson, it was the best lines in 1996-1997. Just look at the stats. That line has speed with Koivu/Recchi and Corson wasn't bad either. If he wasn't injured that year, we never know how dominant could be. Art Ross??? Hart???


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