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-   -   Tkachuk = suspension? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=28087)

execwrite 11-14-2003 06:07 AM

Tkachuk = suspension?
 
Very dumb play by Tkachuk last nite in San Jose. He's our guy, he's playing great, so of course a lot of Blues fans will stick up for him.

But he CANNOT go high with his stick on other players. The NHL is watching him based on his past record and he has to know that. If Tkachuk wants to make a point, throw a body check, shove a guy to the ice, say bad things about somebody's mother - but don't cross check anyone!

I think he could possibly get 10 games for this one. It's not an issue anymore about whether he's guilty. He's made himself a target with repeat offenses and he's got to start playing smarter.

Thoughts?

slimer 11-14-2003 06:39 AM

It was obviously a mistake on Walts part. He tried to cross check him in the chest and slid up to the neck. Players need to stop using their sticks to make a point. Davidson imbellished it quite a bit. I noticed he didn't miss any ice time after laying on the ice for about 5 min like he was injured. But again, Walt should have learned his lesson by now. I would expect a 4 game suspension. His hit wasn't as bad as Weights, but his history would be taken into account. 10 games would be an outrage.

Frenzy1 11-14-2003 07:32 AM

I doubt that we will see a 10 game suspension because there was no intent to injure. I know the league is "cracking down" on this and even w/ the repeat offender label, I don't see him getting a 10 gamer. For sure he will get 2-4.

Just a note, not having seen the game, but from what I have read, didn't Davidson break his stick by slashing Walt prior to the whistle?

And how many here think the game miscounduct was given in response to the "missed" officaiting call on Weight in the Canuck game?

Irish Blues 11-14-2003 07:57 AM

Great, just what I wanted to see this morning....another Blues player being undisciplined with his stick.

DaBo 11-14-2003 08:46 AM

I have to agree with everyone the Walt will get suspended, and IMO he should get the same as Weight. Similar hits (although I think Weight's had a little more behind it), neither 'injured' player was out for more than a shift.

But with Walt's history, it wouldn't surprise me to see him get more than 4.

Then again there's the conspiracy against the Blues......so expect the league to hand down a 10 game.:joker:

Laperriere22* 11-14-2003 09:40 AM

I just rewound the tape and watched it all again. Tkachuk should be suspended, period.

When I saw what Weight did, I knew a couple of things. One, Sedin's hook was the whole reason Weight even turned around. Two, Weight isn't that kind of player and already knowing that, it's easy to hypothesize that he was aiming for Sedin's chest when he turned around. Three, it happened during the play and happened so quickly that intent is quite difficult to prove either way.

Contrast that with Tkachuk. He's a known stick offender and has done nothing in his career to deserve the benefit of the doubt when these situations occur. It was after the whistle, which lends itself much more to proving intent. As soon as the whistle blew, Tkachuk beelined for Davison. Tkachuk was not aiming for the midsection; watch the angle he takes with his stick. That stick was going upwards towards the neck and head and Davison's hands saved him from any real injury that might have occurred.

As for what happened to cause it, there was no slash by Davison. What happened was the Blues were on the PP and Tkachuk circles into slot to get in position to set up a screen. Davison gives Tkachuk a hook to pull them together. Tkachuk and Davison get their sticks up and Davison loses his stick while the two of them are jockeying for position. Tkachuk throws a couple of head-high crosschecks at Davison during the play, but I don't think he connected with them. Play continues for a few seconds, shot comes from the point, Nabokov covers the puck, and Tkachuk goes right after Davison. Davison didn't even do a damn thing to deserve any retaliation on that play. Tkachuk just plain lost it and that's why he should be suspended. I don't care if Davison faked an injury or how much contact Tkachuk's stick made. Tkachuk had pure intent and it was premeditated (in a very small degree). He has a poor history of such things as well. I believe the action itself was so reprehensible and poorly justified that Tkachuk should get a decent suspension for it. I also want a fairly lengthy suspension in the hopes that it will shame Tkachuk into learning some discipline.

If Davison doesn't get his hands up to protect himself, we're looking at one hell of an ugly incident.

topshelf331 11-14-2003 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laperriere22
I just rewound the tape and watched it all again. Tkachuk should be suspended, period.

When I saw what Weight did, I knew a couple of things. One, Sedin's hook was the whole reason Weight even turned around. Two, Weight isn't that kind of player and already knowing that, it's easy to hypothesize that he was aiming for Sedin's chest when he turned around. Three, it happened during the play and happened so quickly that intent is quite difficult to prove either way.

Contrast that with Tkachuk. He's a known stick offender and has done nothing in his career to deserve the benefit of the doubt when these situations occur. It was after the whistle, which lends itself much more to proving intent. As soon as the whistle blew, Tkachuk beelined for Davison. Tkachuk was not aiming for the midsection; watch the angle he takes with his stick. That stick was going upwards towards the neck and head and Davison's hands saved him from any real injury that might have occurred.

As for what happened to cause it, there was no slash by Davison. What happened was the Blues were on the PP and Tkachuk circles into slot to get in position to set up a screen. Davison gives Tkachuk a hook to pull them together. Tkachuk and Davison get their sticks up and Davison loses his stick while the two of them are jockeying for position. Tkachuk throws a couple of head-high crosschecks at Davison during the play, but I don't think he connected with them. Play continues for a few seconds, shot comes from the point, Nabokov covers the puck, and Tkachuk goes right after Davison. Davison didn't even do a damn thing to deserve any retaliation on that play. Tkachuk just plain lost it and that's why he should be suspended. I don't care if Davison faked an injury or how much contact Tkachuk's stick made. Tkachuk had pure intent and it was premeditated (in a very small degree). He has a poor history of such things as well. I believe the action itself was so reprehensible and poorly justified that Tkachuk should get a decent suspension for it. I also want a fairly lengthy suspension in the hopes that it will shame Tkachuk into learning some discipline.

If Davison doesn't get his hands up to protect himself, we're looking at one hell of an ugly incident.

BS. Is all i have to say. I just watched the replay in slow motion and tkachuks stick and arms were already extended. And the third guy in is the one who raised his arms. Tkachuk didnt even know why he was being thrown out. This is the biggest non incedent i have seen in awhile.

topshelf331 11-14-2003 10:23 AM

Add to that it was a sharks player who raised his arm.

topshelf331 11-14-2003 10:25 AM

WOW!

Laperriere22* 11-14-2003 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topshelf331
BS. Is all i have to say. I just watched the replay in slow motion and tkachuks stick and arms were already extended. And the third guy in is the one who raised his arms. Tkachuk didnt even know why he was being thrown out. This is the biggest non incedent i have seen in awhile.

BS? Such a biting and witty retort. If you're going to quote me, why not say where I'm wrong directly rather than use a vague comment and dancing around everything I said.

topshelf331 11-14-2003 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laperriere22
BS? Such a biting and witty retort. If you're going to quote me, why not say where I'm wrong directly rather than use a vague comment and dancing around everything I said.

Ok, here is why you are wrong professor. His stick was lower than his chest until the extra sharks player lifted his arm. His arms were extended and there was no cross checking motion. They were just lifted.
Very innocent play and deserves no suspension.

Shark Attack 11-14-2003 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topshelf331
Add to that it was a sharks player who raised his arm.

To defend himself.....

CHomp, Chomp

Laperriere22* 11-14-2003 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topshelf331
His stick was lower than his chest until the extra sharks player lifted his arm.

You're right his stick started in that area (just below Tkachuk's own shoulders), but if you follow what I'm saying, the angle was going upward from the start. I don't care where his stick started from; it's clear that stick was going higher than the starting position. If there was no angle to start with, you'd be right and I wouldn't even have said a word about any of it. But Tkachuk's arms had an inclined angle and it's clear where his stick was going to end up. He was not aiming for the midsection whatsoever.

And both Davison and Tkachuk look to be the same height too, before that gets tossed in there by anyone.

Who is this extra Sharks player you keep talking about by the way? It would be easier to follow you if you had a name.

topshelf331 11-14-2003 11:31 AM

The angle i saw over and over was tkachuk coming towards the player/camera. As for the player, i dont know who he was. But before tkachuk made contact with davison, that player had his arm underneath KT's and he didnt direct push up on it. He sort of wedged under it, lifting it.

So if you saw the reverse angle it would appear as if KT was angled for him. But from the angle i saw from FSMW. You can see what really happened.

When i commented earlier, i saw only the angle on kt skating away, and yes i though he deserved a penalty and possibly a suspension for getting his stick up. But with this other angle, it changed my mind.

slimer 11-14-2003 12:09 PM

I wish I could remember who it was against, but a few games ago (before the Weight suspension) Walt took a wicked cross check to the back of the head when he was in front of the net. Walt simply got back up and went after the guy. If I remember correctly, both guys ended up with penalties. There was no suspension for the cross check to Walt's head.

My point is Walt takes a beating in front of the net and on occasion it is a shot to the head. Now he has done it to someone else who chose to just lay there and play it up. While I wish he would have used his hand instead of his stick, I don't think his incident was any worse than the one that went unpunished with Walt as the victim.

A 2-4 game suspension may be warrented, but I just don't understand why other teams keep getting away with stickwork while Blues get punished for it. Just be consistent.

BTW, how in the world did Thornton not get an extra penalty for first slashing Pronger, then when Pronger returned the slash, Thornton jumped Pronger, dropped his gloves and started punching Pronger in the back of the head while he was down. Both players ended up in the box with a minor. I was listening to the Sharks broadcast, and the Sharks broadcasters couldn't believe that they got matching minors.

Irish Blues 11-14-2003 12:15 PM

Anyone else find it weird that the NHL hasn't handed down anything yet, especially considering how quick they were to react on Weight's hit against Sedin? By now Weight had gotten notice to appear before Colin Campbell, declined, and been given 4 games. Today.......nothing yet.

c-carp 11-14-2003 12:50 PM

Anything more than 2 games and we got the shaft, because Davison deserves an academy award for his acting job last night.

c-carp 11-14-2003 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Blues
Anyone else find it weird that the NHL hasn't handed down anything yet, especially considering how quick they were to react on Weight's hit against Sedin? By now Weight had gotten notice to appear before Colin Campbell, declined, and been given 4 games. Today.......nothing yet.

I see that as a good sign maybe Walt is going to get a pass here?

Devils Advocate 11-14-2003 01:41 PM

Walt got his stick up? Shocking. He's an idiot.

I guess we'll see Pronger complete the Blues High Stick Hatrick pretty shortly.

That's a shame such quality players hide behind their sticks. Especially given their size. I still remember Pronger high sticking Drake in the throat when he was still on the Coyotes (no call of course).

peace~!

degroat* 11-14-2003 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark Attack
To defend himself.....

CHomp, Chomp

Fine... so the player raised his arms to defend himself (though, I'm pretty sure you're full of it). The reason he raised his arms doesn't change the fact that it was in fact him raising his arms that caused the stick to go into his face.

Shark Attack 11-14-2003 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
Fine... so the player raised his arms to defend himself (though, I'm pretty sure you're full of it). The reason he raised his arms doesn't change the fact that it was in fact him raising his arms that caused the stick to go into his face.

WTF, why say that I am full of it? I just stated what he said.

CHomp, CHomp

degroat* 11-14-2003 04:24 PM

You stated what who said?

Devils Advocate 11-14-2003 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by degroat
You stated what who said?

Right.

Laperriere22* 11-14-2003 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topshelf331
The angle i saw over and over was tkachuk coming towards the player/camera. As for the player, i dont know who he was. But before tkachuk made contact with davison, that player had his arm underneath KT's and he didnt direct push up on it. He sort of wedged under it, lifting it.

I have no idea what you're talking about. There was no third player that helped his stick. Period. Ricci came in a second after Tkachuk had already "hit" Davison. Nobody raised Tkachuk's stick for him outside of Davison's own hands. This isn't a conspiracy theory. It was all on Tkachuk and I, for one, will not call Tkachuk a leader as long as he does that sort of garbage. Either fight or learn some discipline; I really don't care which.

Laperriere22* 11-14-2003 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimer
I wish I could remember who it was against, but a few games ago (before the Weight suspension) Walt took a wicked cross check to the back of the head when he was in front of the net. Walt simply got back up and went after the guy. If I remember correctly, both guys ended up with penalties. There was no suspension for the cross check to Walt's head.

It was Lance Ward of Anaheim; the same game where I said the Blues were lucky that Tkachuk didn't get tossed out of that game for his spear on Ward later on.

And I agree with you; Ward's crosscheck was just as ugly as Tkachuk's (uglier actually). Deliberately from behind to the neck/head area after the whistle. That and the stuff with Davison is supposedly why the Blues employ Reed Low. Makes one wonder whether he's ever going to take up that role any more.


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