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-   -   IMHO B's should play in the West (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=28475)

BruinsGirl 11-15-2003 06:03 PM

IMHO B's should play in the West
 
It's not about our wins or losses vs WC.

It's just these games are much more entrtaining than Eastern clutch and grubbing style! Even if B's lost tonight I would be sooooo satisfied with the game overall!

For me Vancouver - Boston low score game (great goaltending both sides) was THE MOST interesting game this season.

Blane Youngblood 11-15-2003 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsGirl
It's not about our wins or losses vs WC.

It's just these games are much more entrtaining than Eastern clutch and grubbing style! Even if B's lost tonight I would be sooooo satisfied with the game overall!

For me Vancouver - Boston low score game (great goaltending both sides) was THE MOST interesting game this season.

Why not just try and force yourself to be a Canucks fan? Or atleast like them as your second team.

Shane 11-16-2003 12:04 AM

We've got our share of clutchers and grabbers over here too: Minnesota, Anaheim... Maybe Nashville... Well, not really Nashville... To a certain extent, I guess...

meehan 11-16-2003 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsGirl
It's not about our wins or losses vs WC.

It's just these games are much more entrtaining than Eastern clutch and grubbing style! Even if B's lost tonight I would be sooooo satisfied with the game overall!

For me Vancouver - Boston low score game (great goaltending both sides) was THE MOST interesting game this season.

Enjoy it now. The only thing that brand of firewagon hockey will get you is another first round exit in the playoffs; regardless of what conference you play in. Personally, I find it most exciting when the team I root for wins; but that's just me I guess.

fogg* 11-16-2003 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehan
Enjoy it now. The only thing that brand of firewagon hockey will get you is another first round exit in the playoffs; regardless of what conference you play in. Personally, I find it most exciting when the team I root for wins; but that's just me I guess.

That attitude is why hockey isn't more popular in America. The NHL needs the game to be exciting enough so people are fans of the game, not just a team. That "brand of firewagon hockey" is the way they can get more people interested in the sport.

It's great when your team wins yes - but when the clutching, grabbing trapping teams win everyone else loses.

meehan 11-17-2003 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fogg
That attitude is why hockey isn't more popular in America. The NHL needs the game to be exciting enough so people are fans of the game, not just a team. That "brand of firewagon hockey" is the way they can get more people interested in the sport.

During the 80s teams scored a ton of goals, hockey was still where it is now, the # 4 sport in America. Hockey will always be # 4 here in America as it just doesn't peak American interest much like soccer doesn't cut it in north america. There are a bunch of reasons for this; but the way the game itself is played is not one of the reasons IMO.

Quote:

It's great when your team wins yes - but when the clutching, grabbing trapping teams win everyone else loses.
I wonder when people will finally realize that "clutching and grabbing" and "the trap" are two totally separate things. I bet most of the people who complain about the trap wouldn't even recognize it at a hockey game. And when are these so called "clutching grabbing teams" winning? Last years final four playoff teams were all relatively small teams that rely on skating ability and counterattacking. All the big "clutch and grab" teams were bounced fairly early; like Toronto and Philly. In fact, a "clutch and grab" team hasn't won the cup since the 1995 Devils(maybe you could also say the 1999 stars did alot of clutching and grabbing).

BruinsGirl 11-17-2003 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehan
Enjoy it now. The only thing that brand of firewagon hockey will get you is another first round exit in the playoffs; regardless of what conference you play in. Personally, I find it most exciting when the team I root for wins; but that's just me I guess.

Meehan: You are wrong...teams can play this kind of hockey + good D and goaltending like it was for both teams in this game and win. First round exits for my B's in the last 2 years happened because of "not good enough" D and G and not because they were trying to play entertaining game. ;)

I am not looking for 10-9 games...2-1 is ok for me and indicates that goaltending is good. It's quality of the game I am looking for.


jin : My favourite team on the West is LA (with all these players going back and forth and because "never die" attitude) .Edmonton and Vancouver are another two teams I enjoy to watch the most.

Impossibles 11-17-2003 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehan
During the 80s teams scored a ton of goals, hockey was still where it is now, the # 4 sport in America. Hockey will always be # 4 here in America as it just doesn't peak American interest much like soccer doesn't cut it in north america. There are a bunch of reasons for this; but the way the game itself is played is not one of the reasons IMO.

Yes, hockey was number 4 and probably will always be #4. But it was gaining populatirty(sp?) which is why there was so much expansion into the US. But then these expansion teams were losing so many games, and fans were losing interest, so teams started resorting to winning by any means neccesary. Fans don't have the patience for slow turn-arounds, they want fast results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehan
I wonder when people will finally realize that "clutching and grabbing" and "the trap" are two totally separate things. I bet most of the people who complain about the trap wouldn't even recognize it at a hockey game. And when are these so called "clutching grabbing teams" winning? Last years final four playoff teams were all relatively small teams that rely on skating ability and counterattacking. All the big "clutch and grab" teams were bounced fairly early; like Toronto and Philly. In fact, a "clutch and grab" team hasn't won the cup since the 1995 Devils(maybe you could also say the 1999 stars did alot of clutching and grabbing).

Clutch and grab is part of the trap. The defending team clutches and grabs offensive players going through the neutral zone to disrupt the rush and force the team to dump in, as well as holding up fore-checkers on the dump in.

Beukeboom Fan 11-17-2003 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehan
During the 80s teams scored a ton of goals, hockey was still where it is now, the # 4 sport in America. Hockey will always be # 4 here in America as it just doesn't peak American interest much like soccer doesn't cut it in north america. There are a bunch of reasons for this; but the way the game itself is played is not one of the reasons IMO.

Agree that Hockey is never going to be more than #4 in the States, but does that mean that it shouldn't be an exciting product for the existing fans?

Hockey is killing itself IMO. I love the game, but many of the games are just painful to watch. I don't mind a 2-1 game if there is scoring chances & good goaltending, but I don't want to watch a game where there are 40 total shots & maybe 5 good scoring chances.

Coach's are paid to win. Is it any surprise that they will do everything they can to keep their high paying jobs as long as possible? I don't remember a coach given a pass because he played an exciting brand of hockey.

I live in Chicago and don't get season tickets because I don't want to pay money to go see trapping teams like the Wild, or less skilled teams like the Preds & Jackets (in years past). I think that if the game was more exciting, I would be more inclined to shell out my money for season tickets.

Takeo 11-17-2003 10:02 AM

Boston = West

Hmmm...just don't see it.

tmg 11-17-2003 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impossibles
Clutch and grab is part of the trap. The defending team clutches and grabs offensive players going through the neutral zone to disrupt the rush and force the team to dump in, as well as holding up fore-checkers on the dump in.

Is this 1997?


The trap, in its most effective form nowadays, is a _passing_ trap. The players clog the neutral zone passing lanes, force a bad pass by applying pressure to the puckcarrier, and counterattack after intercepting a high-risk pass. No clutching. No grabbing.


It's not cioncidence that the Devils have been the lowest-powerplay-opportunity team in the NHL three years running. It's not like they're hooking and holding and 'getting away with it'. They are not committing any infractions, unless the NHL makes "Good positioning" a two-minute penalty.

Impossibles 11-17-2003 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmg
Is this 1997?


The trap, in its most effective form nowadays, is a _passing_ trap. The players clog the neutral zone passing lanes, force a bad pass by applying pressure to the puckcarrier, and counterattack after intercepting a high-risk pass. No clutching. No grabbing.


It's not cioncidence that the Devils have been the lowest-powerplay-opportunity team in the NHL three years running. It's not like they're hooking and holding and 'getting away with it'. They are not committing any infractions, unless the NHL makes "Good positioning" a two-minute penalty.

key phrase: "in its most effective form"

Teams like minnesota, philly, and islanders(arguably...I only see them play once a year if that) all play a sort of clutch and grab trap.

Teams like NJ, Detroit, and Ottawa play a very organized, counter-attacking style of trap that you are reffering to. This style is actually entertaining, because at least the game still has flow. The NJ/Ottawa series last year was a great series.

meehan 11-17-2003 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsGirl
Meehan: You are wrong...teams can play this kind of hockey + good D and goaltending like it was for both teams in this game and win. First round exits for my B's in the last 2 years happened because of "not good enough" D and G and not because they were trying to play entertaining game. ;)

I am not looking for 10-9 games...2-1 is ok for me and indicates that goaltending is good. It's quality of the game I am looking for.


jin : My favourite team on the West is LA (with all these players going back and forth and because "never die" attitude) .Edmonton and Vancouver are another two teams I enjoy to watch the most.

I didn't see the game so I don't know, but if you say the teams played good on the defensive side of the puck(ie the forwards were backchecking, the defensemen weren't getting caught out of position) then yeah you can play a fast paced attack oriented game. Some of the better teams in the league do play this way, like Ottawa and New Jersey. The Devils get a bad rep as people feel they are passive offensively; they are not, and if you look at the shot total stats every year they are top 5 which means they are attacking the opposing team. Even the likes of Don Cherry realizes this about the Devils(he mentioned it last HNIC).

Unthinkable 11-17-2003 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehan
Some of the better teams in the league do play this way, like Ottawa and New Jersey. The Devils get a bad rep as people feel they are passive offensively; they are not, and if you look at the shot total stats every year they are top 5 which means they are attacking the opposing team. Even the likes of Don Cherry realizes this about the Devils(he mentioned it last HNIC).

Amen. Too often the Devils get lumped in with the clutch and grabbing trap = root of all evil crowd that is constantly sociologically reinforced in the media. Instead of hearing hey great job winning the cup last season its more a case of hey nice job of ruining the league.

tmg 11-17-2003 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impossibles
key phrase: "in its most effective form"

Teams like minnesota, philly, and islanders(arguably...I only see them play once a year if that) all play a sort of clutch and grab trap.

Teams like NJ, Detroit, and Ottawa play a very organized, counter-attacking style of trap that you are reffering to. This style is actually entertaining, because at least the game still has flow. The NJ/Ottawa series last year was a great series.

Good. We're agreed. Your earlier statement of "Clutch and grab is part of the trap." seemed to imply it was part of the definition. Some trap teams use clutch and grab, some do not. Some non-trap teams use clutch and grab, some do not. The two should not be implied to be hand-in-glove.

190Octane 11-17-2003 03:59 PM

There are a lot of teams in the West that clutch and grab more than the Ducks.

Steve L* 11-17-2003 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meehan
Even the likes of Don Cherry realizes this about the Devils(he mentioned it last HNIC).

If Cherry said they dont use the trap, then its proves that NJ do use the trap.


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